|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
Since I bought my 54 Lincoln Capri, I've been asking a lot of questions on here. A lot of them were a bit vague, just trying to figure out what I have.
Now, the engine, a 317, is at the machine shop looking good. I cracked the distributor getting it out but the carb was missing when I bought the car so I was planning on using a more modern carb, using a different distributor and changing the gear on the bottom. I was told a few things on here regarding this issue but didn't keep track of what was said. Like I said, I was asking a lot of questions and getting a lot of answers. I am now at the point of getting work done on the engine so I am trying to get more specific.
Besides changing the distributor I need to get the cylinders bored. The mechanic said he's looking for.030 oversized 317 pistons or possibly bore it out for 341 pistons.
I'd like to know what to look for as far as a different distributor. What years, make and motor size to get it from.
Then the pistons. Can Lincoln 341 pistons work on this 317 motor using existing crank and connecting rods?
|
|
By darrell - 2 Years Ago
|
|
341 pistons will work same crank and rods.you can use a y block ford dist,if you change the gear.57 and up.a modern carb is not going to fit your intake.you will have to use an adapter or get an intake of a newer truck.the lyb was used in heavy trucks till 63.these later ones had an intake that would take a holley
|
|
By Ted - 2 Years Ago
|
If going with a more modern carburetor, then the distributor will need to be upgraded to the 1957 and newer style that incorporates both a mechanical and vacuum feature. The original LOM (Load-O-Matic) distributors are calibrated for use with the earlier carburetors that incorporated a venturi assisted vacuum signal along with a spark advance valve. That spark advance valve is located on the outside of those earlier carbs and looks similar to the ‘power’ valve that’s located internally on the newer carbs. There was no mechanical advance feature on the LOM distributors. The earlier Teapot carbs can be modified for use with the newer distributors if so desired. Here’s the link to the article on modifying the earlier Teapot carbs for use with the later model distributors.
Modifying the Holley Teapot four barrel carb for late model distributors – Eaton Balancing
For a daily driver, a carb adapter on the earlier ‘Teapot’ intake manifold will allow the use of a newer ‘modern’ carb. As Darrel mentions, the later model 302 and 332 LYB truck intakes will allow the use of a modern 4V carb without an adapter.
The ’54 engines used a tang style distributor to accommodate the slotted shaft oil drive and oil pump. If going with a modern distributor, the 1955 and later model ¼” hex drive oil pump and oil drive shaft will need to be used. Those pieces will interchange with the original parts without modifications. If using a Ford Y distributor, the distributor gear will need to be swapped out with the original LYB distributor gear. I currently don’t have a LYB distributor here to verify if the LYB gear is the same as the Ford FE engines but I’m told the 390 (Ford FE) gears are the same.
The MSD #8383 distributor for a FYB will work on the LYB engines if changing out the distributor gear. Always measure the distributor cavity in the block so that any replacement distributor gears can be placed on the shaft in the appropriate position. I have found some FYB blocks machined on the ‘short’ side of specification and I suspect there may have been some LYB blocks machined similarly.
|
|
By RB - 2 Years Ago
|
|
A 317 should be able to be bored to 341. Those blocks are quite thick.. Since the stroke is the same on the 317 and 341 no other changes should be necessary.. Change the oil pimp and distributor when you do the build. A rebuilt 57 and up FYB distributor with the Lincoln gear will work well. You can add a Pertronix if you want to eliminate points.. I prefer the truck manifold vs adapting the 317 version.. Neither one are considered high performance, But that's about the best you can do with factory stuff
|
|
By hjh - 2 Years Ago
|
B-rad Look in the classified heading Harry
Truck 4 V Lincoln intake (y-blocksforever.com)
|
|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
|
Hjh, you selling the f600 intake? Anybody know if that'll work on my 317 LYB?
|
|
By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
|
|
I posted a reply in Classified. Unless the F600 has a 332, it's highly unlikely; it's probably a 292, which won't fit. The 292, like the 239, 272, and 312, has stacked intake ports. The 317 has inline ports. Ask the seller to send a photo of the intake ports.
|
|
By Ted - 2 Years Ago
|
|
B-rad (6/27/2022)
The oil pump and drive needs to be a Ford or lincoln? Someone is selling a 4v intake from a 63 f600. Do you know if that'll work on my LYB?
The FYB and LYB oil pumps are interchangeable. For the hex drive pump, it would 1955 and newer.
The oil drive is LYB specific. The Melling number for the LYB hex intermediate shaft (oil drive) is “IS-60A”.
|
|
By Ted - 2 Years Ago
|
|
B-rad (6/27/2022)
Hjh, you selling the f600 intake? Anybody know if that'll work on my 317 LYB?
The 1952-1963 LYB engines take the same intake manifold gaskets so the chances are very good for the 1958-1963 4V 302/332 intake manifold fitting the earlier 317/341 engines. The Best Gasket p/n for the LYB intake manifold gasket set is “17020E”.
|
|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks Ted. You the man. I know I can get the right info from you.
|
|
By RB - 2 Years Ago
|
|
B-rad.. I have a Lincoln 4bbl truck manifold I would sell..
|
|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
|
I'm sure you have read my issue, are you certain that it's what I need in order to use a non stock carb? I'm really confused about these parts. Can you post a pic and what you want for it?
|
|
By darrell - 2 Years Ago
|
|
you have been given all the info you need for the correct parts.RB has the intake you want.
|
|
By RB - 2 Years Ago
|
|
I'll send you a picture if you give me an email... I have built quite a few Lincolns so I know it will fit.. $150.
|
|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
|
RB, I sent you my email, do you know where I can get pistons also?
|
|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
|
After calculating the cost of shipping, how difficult is it to get or make an adapter for the original intake for a newer carb?
|
|
By Ted - 2 Years Ago
|
|
B-rad (6/28/2022)
After calculating the cost of shipping, how difficult is it to get or make an adapter for the original intake for a newer carb?
On my end, carb adapters are not that difficult to make. When available for a specific application, they are less expensive when considering the time involved to make them. Speedway Motors offers the carb adapter you need.
Holley/Edelbrock to Carter WCFB 4-Barrel Carburetor Adapter Plate (speedwaymotors.com)
Here’s an example of a spacer that was made for a Ford 223 six cylinder so that a late model 4V carb could be used on a Clifford intake manifold.
|
|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
|
Ted, in your opinion, are there disadvantages to using the adapter?
|
|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
|
Or advantages to using the truck intake?
|
|
By Ted - 2 Years Ago
|
|
B-rad (6/30/2022)
Ted, in your opinion, are there disadvantages to using the adapter?
B-rad (6/30/2022)
Or advantages to using the truck intake?
For normal idle and driving, using an adapter is not an issue as idle and normal driving/cruising will not be affected.
Disadvantages of using an adapter would include the potential for vacuum leaks as you are adding another carburetor gasket to the mix. The aftermarket adapters are reasonably thin and therefore more easily warped compounding the gasket sealing issue. In most cases and when using new parts (adapter and gaskets) leakage is not an issue. If making your own adapter, it can be made more robust than the store bought units thus eliminating the potential for warpage. From a performance standpoint, full throttle performance will be compromised simply due to the restriction in the original manifold. If hood clearance is an issue, then the adapter does raise the carburetor and may be just tall enough to prevent using an additional spacer under the carburetor to help isolate the carburetor from the manifold to help with any ‘heat soak’ issues.
Advantages to using the truck intake would include less carburetor gaskets to contend with, a lower mounting carburetor which may allow the use of additional spacers for isolating the carb from the manifold so it can run cooler, and increased air flow for the new carburetor which would enhance full throttle performance. When given the choice, using the truck manifold with the newer carburetor would be the appropriate route.
|
|
By B-rad - 2 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks Ted. Still trying to figure out the oil pump and drive. Not sure what the drive is. I understand that I need a hex drive pump and drive for a different distributor. If you can tell me what years and makes I need to look at for the distributor, oil pump and drive. I don't know if they have to be lincoln or if Ford will do.
|
|
By Ted - 2 Years Ago
|
This was covered but in less detail on the first page of this post. Here’s the link.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost161471.aspx
To add more detail, I will add that any 1955 and newer Ford Y-Block (FYB) oil pump can be used on the Lincoln Y-Block (LYB) engines. In the case of the 1952-1954 LYB engines, the distributor will need to be changed out to accommodate the ¼” hex drive that’s used on the later model Y engines. The hex drive is the oil pump drive shaft and is also referred to as the oil pump intermediate shaft. This shaft fits between the distributor and the oil pump. The oil drive shaft for the LYB engines is specific to the LYB engines as it’s longer than the one used on the FYB.
The Melling part number for the LYB oil pump drive is “IS-60A”.
Just to confuse the subject, be aware that there are two different oil pump designs out there for the FYB. The 1954-1956 engines came from the factory with a spur gear oil pump. Starting in 1957, the FYB engines switched to the gerotor style of pump and that became the standard for all Ford V8 engines after that. What happened in the aftermarket was the replacement pumps continued to being made in the spur gear design so what you buy now new for the Ford Y is going to be a spur gear pump and not the gerotor design. Both pumps are interchangeable and suitable for daily drivers so no issue there. For any high performance and/or high speed driving, then the gerotor pump is typically recommended. Melling still offers the rebuild kits for the gerotor oil pumps and on occasion I do still come across an inventory of the original NOS Ford gerotor pumps for the Ford Y.
Here the link showing how to identify the two different styles of oil pumps.
Ford Y-Block Oil Pumps – Eaton Balancing
While it’s not a Kosher solution, the slotted end of the early oil pump drive and the hex end of the later model oil drive can be grafted together so that the early oil pump and the later model distributor can be used. Or using the original slotted or tang distributor with the later model oil pump. I have done similar recently where I put a 240 Ford Six distributor in a Ford 223 engine and that required an intermediate shaft with a ¼” hex drive on one engine and a 5/16” hex drive on the other. Lots of different ways to approach a problem.
|