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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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   I have tried to find as much information about installing the T-5 in my '55 Thunderbird as possible. I am very disappointed that no one tells you that you will have to cut out a new shifter location panel for the install. It is impossible to install the T-5 with the shifter tower installed. It is also impossible to install the T-5 without removing the engine if you haven't cut the tunnel for the shifter to come up through. The shifter tower is center of the transmission tunnel and will need a panel cut out for the shifter to come through the floor. That is not in the instructions that came with my Mummert adapter for the T-5 in the Thunderbird. This will reqire a new carpet for the car so that the shifter boot hole can be cut out in the proper place. I have ordered the carpet without a hole for floor shift. Parts have been backordered, slow or non-existent for things needed through O"Reilleys, Auto Zone, or Advance Auto. You would think pressure plate bolts would be easy to find (Mr. G 911). Thankfully Larry's Thunderbirds can get the front engine mount, steady rest bushings, etc., even though they are on back-order. Something that initially seemed like a bolt in has turned into an undercarriage cleaning session as well. This car will have more value in parts than the whole if things keep going like they are now. Where do you stop? Joe-JDC
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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Sounds like old hot rodding to me. I’ve found that to be true for all most everything I now do. Unavailability is the big one since the virus or at least the excuse. When needing fasteners I look to many suppliers instead of the one or two I once used. I’m surprised John doesn’t say more. I can’t even remember the last part that didn’t need some messaging before installation.goodluck.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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I would say that what you are experiencing is the norm, rather than the exception, whenever you deviate from the original. Whether you're aiming for originality/building a restomod, it's also likely you'll be spending more than you'll ever recover. With few exceptions, I think the only people who profit from the experience are the parts sellers and professional builders who are being paid for what they do. Just don't go out a rob a bank to support your habit/hobby.
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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Sounds pretty much like I remember when I did the T-5 back in 2007 or so. Except I could buy parts. I’d put a later 4 speed in mine, and had a metal “doghouse” to house the Hurst shifter.. That was replaced with a cover plate and a new hole when the T-5 came along. So I’m on my 3rd carpet. In those days you had to shorten the input shaft by 1/8” or so, otherwise it bottomed in the crank. I couldn’t find a shift handle that suited me, and finally welded one up off an old shifter that came with a parts car. I do really like the way it drives with the T-5.
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By charliemccraney - 2 Years Ago
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I've come to expect that when consensus says something "bolts right in" that something will need to be trimmed, at best.
Why does the shifter need to be installed first? On my '88 Firebird (factory T5) and truck, I install the shifter after the transmission is installed. I install the shifter from the top, through the floor.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Every time I get into some new project on an old car it's the same. You know you won't have time until _____ weeks go by so you spend that time buying 15 parts in hopes that one of them fit on the one day that you'll have to be able to get it all together. It's either that or you spend all your time obsessing about how you're going to make something work and then you figure it out and find out that won't work at all and then something really simple (and cheaper than all the stuff you just bought) pops up...but now you need to wait a few more days for that stuff to come in the mail because you can't buy anything in person anymore for old cars.
I swapped the old 390 CFM Holley for a 600 CFM Holley this month. Yes...I said this month. O'Reilly's didn't have the carb base gaskets (no, seriously) so rather than drive around I just ordered them from Amazon. The "2 day" shipping took 4 days, and when they (2 because I'm running a spacer) showed up, a genius in the had warehouse bent one of them to make it fit into the envelope they used, making a crease that essentially ruined that gasket. I went to a speed shop that didn't even have the gasket I wanted. Unreal.
Just think what ELSE would have gone wrong had I done what I originally planned - to remove the intake and massage the carburetor ports.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Charlie, the shifter does not have to be installed first. On a Mustang, or any car that came with the T-5 style transmission, you have a crossmember that bolts in and you can remove it to install the transmission. The Thunderbird has a huge X frame right where the tailshaft and shifter housing need to be positioned. The distance between the tunnel and the X frame is ~5 3/4", and the transmission tailshaft and housing without the shifter tower is ~6 3/4" thick. So a hole needs to be cut from the tunnel to allow the transmission to slip past the X frame and for the shifter to be installed from the top after the transmission in in place. The whole assembly would not slip between the X frame and the body of the tunnel without cutting the hole. Kinda like the old saying "You can't put 10 lbs of potatoes in a 5 lb sack." Joe-JDC
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By Florida_Phil - 2 Years Ago
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If you have a 1955 Tbird with a manual transmutation and O/D, you must remove the engine to remove the transmission. Even with the bolt-in cross member removed, the transmission will not move back far enough for the input shaft to clear the bell housing. The Ford service manual says you can do this by loosening the bell housing which to me seemed worse than pull the motor. It's a very tight fit.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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I removed the transmission before removing the engine. I slid the original three speed/OD back after removing the shifter and arms. It would not go back far enough to drop the pilot shaft down, so I removed the bellhousing, and the transmission came out. I was going to install the T-5 in reverse order, but the tailshaft housing is too large to go between the X frame and the tunnel sheetmetal. Even after removing the engine and bolting everything up to re-install the engine, it would not clear the X frame without cutting the hole in the tunnel. Joe-JDC
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Yep. When installing/removing a transmission from a 55-57 Tbird, you have two choices: Pull the engine or remove/install the transmission in pieces.
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By Florida_Phil - 2 Years Ago
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I do not know if this is correct, but I have been told that '55 TBird's have the smallest transmission tunnel. This makes sense as '57 TBird manual transmission cars had T85s which are much larger than my T86.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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A T85 is bigger than a Fordomatic?
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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There is some good info. on Ford Barn, regarding BW 259, T85, T86 transmissions and 55-57 Tbird transmission tunnels. According to CTCI, the BW 259 transmission (side-loader) was used in 55 Tbirds, not the T86. Tbird tunnels were enlarged to accommodate the T85 in 56. A T85 has the same mounting location as a T86, but the T85 tailshaft is longer. The 56-57 driveshafts are larger in diameter than the 55's. When installing a T85 in a 55 Tbird, the smaller diameter 55 driveshaft needs to be used, and it has to be shortened to accommodate the longer T85 tailshaft.
I guess the million-dollar question, then, is a T5 bigger/smaller than a T85?
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By ian57tbird - 2 Years Ago
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The bent gasket reminds me of when I order lots of parts from a Tbird supplier. One of the parts I ordered was a fuel line. They bent it 180 degrees so that it would fit in with the rest of the parts. There was no time to replace it as I had to pack it all and get it to the warehouse for shipping back to Australia before I flew out myself. They did refund me the cost of the fuel line though.
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By Florida_Phil - 2 Years Ago
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55blacktie (1/24/2022)
According to CTCI, the BW 259 transmission (side-loader) was used in 55 Tbirds, not the T86. Tbird tunnels were enlarged to accommodate the T85 in 56.
My '55 TBird has it's original transmission. My car came from the factory with a manual three speed transmission with O/D. My transmission is a BW T86 top load three speed with a R10 overdrive unit. I have owned a number of T85s over the years. T85s are side load, much larger and much stronger. They are not larger than an automatic.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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I'm not sure what Ian's post has to do with transmissions.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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If the T85 is not larger than the Fordomatic, which was used for all three years of the 55-57 Tbird, why did Ford enlarge the transmission tunnel for 56-57? Was the larger diameter driveshaft required for the additional power of the 312?
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Next question for those who have done the swap: What did you use to adapt the speedometer cable to the T-5 transmission? The Thunderbird cable adapter has the gears that are cut in opposite direction from the T-5, and will not intermesh. I have this about ready to start up, and the speedometer cable is no way going to work with the T-5 as is. Joe-JDC
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By charliemccraney - 2 Years Ago
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The gear and cable for my 3 speed (1961) worked and I have since bought a gear assortment to adjust for different rear gear ratios so a cable and gear that will mesh with the T5 should be pretty easy to find. The gears are very common.
But I guess that the rotation is opposite for yours?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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I'll try to post a pic of what the cable end with gear looks like for the T5 I installed in my 64 F100. If this is what you have, those gears, as Charlie stated, are available for numerous ratios. They can be right hand or left hand determined by wether the gear is above or below the output shaft. NPD used to have a very good assortment of those gears. I believe this style ran from 57 on. Not sure about 55. If your Tbird has the "mushroom" style gear then simply buy a cable for a 57 and that will fit the T5 and your speedometer. The speedometer head connection is the same through the 50's and 60's as far as I can remember.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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I have built and raced, Fox Mustangs since 1986, with WC T-5Z transmissions, I have a '86 GT with 383W stroker/5 speed, and just sold my 91 LX a couple of months ago, and gave my youngest son my '89 GT with 23K miles on it. I have lots of experience with the T-5 transmissions, and lots of plastic gears for the speedometer cable. The LX had 4.10 gears, my '86 has 3.73 gears, and my '89 GT now has 3.73 gears and WC-Z. This T-5 came out of the '89 GT. All those transmissions had a speedometer cable adapter for the cable end that goes into the transmission. It has different cable ends from your pictures. I can get pictures tomorrow. If a regular speedometer cable for a truck will work, then I will try to find one locally. Joe-JDC
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By charliemccraney - 2 Years Ago
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I think there was a cable design change at some point in the '50s.
I didn't take a picture for reference, but what FORD DEARBORN shows looks like I remember. '61 to ?? cables and gears seem to fit the T5 without any adapter needed.
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By Ted - 2 Years Ago
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Both the speedometer cable design and gear at the transmission changed in 1957 and stayed that way for at least three decades. As mentioned by Ford Dearborn, the gears are available with the helix being either left or right. When I upgraded the T85 in my ’55 Customline, I simply purchased a speedometer cable for a ’57 Ford with overdrive and it bolted right in my ’55. I did have to also use a ’57 & up speedo gear and pick the one with the right tooth count that matched my tire size and gear ratio to get the speedometer to read close to correct.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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This is what I am dealing with. The '55 Thunderbird adapter vs the T-5. I am going to try to find a newer Ford speedometer cable and check the ends to see if they are compatible with the speedometer housing, and the T-5. I have plenty of plastic gears for the transmission end of the cable. Joe-JDC   
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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After checking several sources, it looks like I need the '57 Thunderbird with automatic transmission speedometer cable. T-17260B. The A and C suffix are for the OD transmission and look similar to the stock '55 I have. The B cable is similar to all Mustangs with toploader transmissions, and I have ordered two, one 68" and one 76" length. If the short one doesn't work in the Tbird, it will fit my Shelby. win/win
Joe-JDC
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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Glad you have it figured out. The one with the blue finish should fit a T5. That's a pulse generator, no?
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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If it's any help, I bought the same cable for putting a C4 transmission in my 55 Tbird.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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By the way, another 55 Tbird owner, who did a C4 swap said that he modified the 90-degree drive adapter to accommodate the 57 cable; otherwise, he said it's necessary to drill/cut a hole in the frame to accommodate the cable. I haven't gotten that far with my conversion, but I'll go back and read his email (if I still have it), if it helps.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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I will probably drill a hole to route the cable through the frame. I had to lower the transmission crossmember and angle it 5* for it to mount to the transmission in a level position. The instructions mention 5*, but it does not specify where or what those 5* are measured against. I guess they suppose the end user should be smart enough to figure it out for themselves. This '55 Thunderbird has been so mistreated over the years that I am just trying to get it fun to drive and not worry about originality or perfection. Joe-JDC 
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Joe, here is contact info. for someone who has been there and done that:
John Rollison
Pro Tech Performance
Waldorf, MD
(301) 638-2109
Sorry, no email address/website
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By paul2748 - 2 Years Ago
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Certain Mustang cables will also work. Just be sure you get the transmission end that fits the gear that is held on by the clip (there are two types). When I went to a C4 in my 56 Bird, I got an aftermarket angle drive (1-1) to solve the clearance issue but that required me to use a cable that was the same as the speedo end at the trans end ( and is the same as the stock 55/56 cable)..
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Paul, can you provide more information for the aftermarket angle drive, including source, that you used for your C4 conversion? Would it have been simpler/cheaper to have drilled a hole in the frame for the 57 cable?
Thanks
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By dbird - 2 Years Ago
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Early Mustang cables will probably work. When I put a C4 on my 55 Bird I roamed the local Pick m Pull until I found a Ford with the right cable ends and grabbed it. Pulled it out of a first-generation Falcon and it fits pretty much perfectly with no drilling, though I did buy a new gear from a Thunderbird supplier to get the speedo to read right for gear and tires. I pulled a couple of 70 vintage cables but they had plastic clips for the speedo end amd didn't look like a match.
Don
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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dbird, the transmission end of the 57 Tbird cable fits the C4 and uses the same style gear. If the Falcon cable fit your 55 without drilling/using 90-degree adapter drive, I would think the 57 cable will as well. I hold off on buying adapters/drilling holes until it's time to install the cable.
The primary reason I chose the C4 rather than the AOD/T5 is ease of installation; I hope that holds true. Admittedly, a 5.0 Fox Mustang/w T5 was more fun to drive than my 88/w AOD. However, it's been so long since I've owned a manual, I don't think I would want to go back. No doubt overdrive would be nice, but I settled for highway gears.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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dbird, I would like to see how you routed the Falcon cable to the C4 when/if convenient. I've been told that the 57 Tbirds have a hole in the frame for the speedometer cable. I'm just wondering why there's a hole, if it's not needed.
Thanks
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By paul2748 - 2 Years Ago
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Blacktie - I think the supplier was Speedometer Service Co. in Wisconsin (414-432-4636.) Don't remember what I paid for it, but certainly not cheaper than drilling a hole. Was simple to install though. Will try to find the invoice for it tomorrow.
I ordered a 1 to 1 ratio, you can get different ratios to correct a speedo. I corrected my speedo by changing the driven gear.
te]55blacktie (2/6/2022)
Paul, can you provide more information for the aftermarket angle drive, including source, that you used for your C4 conversion? Would it have been simpler/cheaper to have drilled a hole in the frame for the 57 cable? Thanks
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks, Paul. I would PM/email, but it hasn't worked in the past.
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By paul2748 - 2 Years Ago
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Blacktie -sitting down? 275 for the angle drive. Drilling a hole is a lot cheaper
Thinking about this, if I remember correctly, it was a bit of a tight fit to get the angle drive in place
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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I've tried to avoid making any mods that can't be undone, but holes had been drilled into the frame to accommodate the front mounts for Traction Master bars while the 55 Tbird was still in my dad's possession. He was no hot-rodder. I think the bars were installed to limit lateral movement of the rear axle, so the KH wire-wheel knockoffs wouldn't rub the skirts. I decided against installing an AOD because I did not want to notch the frame for clearance. Although I would like overdrive, my transmission builder said that the C4 is a better transmission. I also think the AOD would be more difficult to install. My point being drilling one more hole to accommodate the speedometer cable seems like the logical thing to do.
Yes, I'm sure the 90-degree drive adapter is tight. I found that out while attempting to disconnect the 55 cable. Even with the exhaust system removed, I haven't found the right tool in my toolbox that will squeeze in there to remove the cable. It might have to remain attached and come out with the transmission (or cut it). Gil Baumgartner (CTCI Gil's Garage) recommends attaching the cable to the transmission before the transmission is installed for that reason.
Thanks
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Some follow up information on this installation. The '64-'66 Mustang V8 speedometer cable will work, albeit too long at 64 inches. The original speedometer cable was 47 inches, but needs about 5 inches extra to allow for bend into the transmission without too much of a bend. A 52" speedometer cable would be perfect with the same Ford Mustang   ends. Also, the drive shaft for the original Ford differential needs to be 31inches center to center instead of the 32 1/4" in Mummert's instruction sheet. He must have been using a Ford 9" read end for his build, but did not say that in the instructions sheet. The C-4 transmission mount must be used and the holes drilled in the Thunderbird transmission cross member. The cross member does need to be lowered in the X frame and it will not be level to the ground.
I am waiting on the driveshaft to be shortened. I am installing Dynamat sound deadner and heat reflector under the new carpet. I ordered the carpet for column shift so that I could cut the shifter hole where it needed to be with this combination of shifter placement. Joe-JDC
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Getting close to start up and drive time. It is not quite as easy to do this now that I am nearing my 76th birthday as it was just a few years ago. The enjoyment is in the day to day work and seeing it all coming together. Little setbacks like shortening a driveshaft after spending $414.00 for the first one, speedometer cable ends, brass fittings for oil gage sending unit, transmission mounts, engine steady mount spacer kit, have made this take nearly double the time I expected. Now, where is that coil wire? Joe-JDC    
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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Nice work - well worth all the effort. Couldn't help noticing the very clean compressor installation. Did you custom fab the A/C hoses?
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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The AC was installed by the previous owner, and the belt was so far out of alignment it sheared the water pump impeller. When I bought the car, that was the issue at hand, and making so much noise that the owner dropped the price in half. A water pump change, adding some shims, moving the alternator around a bit, and getting the belt in proper alignment, adding a fan spacer, and it started and ran nearly perfect. The only problem was someone had installed a two barrel intake and carb with the loadmatic distributor it was a real "slow poke". The AC actually works very well, now. The lady who was the previous owner had receipts for thousands of dollars of work on the car from several years. Sad to say she was "taken advantage of" is an understatement. Getting everything cleaned, painted and installed on the 345 Y and aligned properly was one of the most difficult parts of the installation. The two part fan shroud really makes working on the accessories a lot easier than most cars, though. Joe-JDC
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Is that a 750 cfm Summit carburetor?
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Yes, the build is described in July-August 2021 Y Block Magazine. Issue 165. Joe-JDC
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Installation completed. The engine fired on first revolution, idled at 800 rpm, and after tweaking, settled down to 750 rpm with the AC turned on. After talking with Ted, decided to forego the MSD 6AL, and use a Jacob's coil instead of the square MSD coil. Easier mounting and cleaner looks. Took the 'Bird out for test drive, and it is a totally different feel from the old engine and stock OD transmission. This engine makes the car scoot like a new car. The CRT tach drive distributor works great, the tach is quiet, and engine has a nice lope to it, and that is just fine. Transmission shifts like a new Mustang, and is quiet. Clutch pedal has about 1" free travel, and engages smoothly, shifts smoothly. I am very happy with how it drives now. Joe-JDC  
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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Excellent work and you claimed to be getting slower from getting older. I think in this case, it's like a fine bottle of wine. A T5 indeed changes the personality, driving dynamics and modernizes our classic vehicles in a very positive way. What is a Jacob's coil? Is it what's designed to play with a CRT distributor?
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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The coil is designed for high output electronic systems that was used on EFI Fords. Plugs can be gapped .045-.060" on the EFI Fords with the coil. This engine is exactly as it came off Ted's dyno with the exception of accessories and coil. Never touched the distributor, timing, sparkplugs, or plug wires. 367 hp with exhaust manifolds, 402 hp with FPA headers. This is so responsive, I will drive it as for a while and sort out the brakes, maybe install a 9" rear end, and definitely get it painted. Keep it a driver for sure. Joe-JDC
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Joe, how is the Dana 44 holding up? Still has the original 19-spline axles?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks Joe - I'm going to assume the distributor has a Pertronix like device inside doing the switching. It's got my attention since Ted put his "OK" stamp on it. Could you supply the part number or at least the model year that awesome Ford coil was used in? Thanks................
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Yes, the original rear with 3.91 gear ratio (47/12 tag). I tried to source a new 9" from a couple of places, and they wanted a lot of information that I could not give them at the time. That is an expensive proposition--near $5K with posi, disc brakes. I don't have a source around this area to look in junk yards for old cars that might be a donor for the rear end. For sure I will not be drag racing it from stop light to stop light! LOL
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By suede57ford - 2 Years Ago
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When I had my '57 T-Bird I had my original housing cut down a little on each side. This narrowed the rear end width(like .75 per side) and centered my wheels in the wheel house which gave me many options for different wheels and tires. I did 31 spine axles and explorer(currie) rear discs with a traction lock as I was planning to use it in Y-Block Shootouts.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Jacob's Electronic coils. Google is your friend. Joe-JDC
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Appears to be no longer available.
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By 312YBlock - 2 Years Ago
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I noticed the PCV hose is connected to the rear of the carb base. I have a Summit 600 CFM which has a PCV connection in the front, it has a screw plug in the same location as yours. The installation instructions say that where you have it is a power break vacuum port.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Yes, I do not have power brakes, and this is so much simpler. Does not affect idle adjustments. Did this way on a couple of dyno testing engines, and no issues with this system. Joe-JDC
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks for the coil picture. The tag on the box says it all - looks like it's a late Ford Duraspark application. Thanks..............
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By Ted - 2 Years Ago
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312YBlock (2/23/2022)
I noticed the PCV hose is connected to the rear of the carb base. I have a Summit 600 CFM which has a PCV connection in the front, it has a screw plug in the same location as yours. The installation instructions say that where you have it is a power brake vacuum port.
It's the same direct vacuum available at both the front and rear. The Summit carbs do come with the 1/8" NPT barbed fitting to go into that back hole for those that choose to use that location. My own preference is to always pull the vacuum for a PCV valve at the rear of a four barrel carburetor when you have a choice. This keeps disturbance in air flow away from the primary throttle bores. For the Y with the PCV valve located at the back of the valley cover, it’s a much cleaner look with a shorter hose.
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By 312YBlock - 2 Years Ago
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Joe could you tell me where you got the vacuum booster threaded nipple for the 1/2 ID PCV hose. NAPA only has a 1/8 to 1/2” adapter which adds over two inches to the assembly.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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It came with the carburetor from Summit. Check with O'Reilleys, Advance Auto, Auto Zone, or even Lowes. They have a rack with an assortment of brass fittings. Joe-JDC
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By 312YBlock - 2 Years Ago
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Ahhhhh.. Got the parts but can’t get the vacuum plug to budge 😫
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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Use a large flat blade screwdriver and an adjustable wrench on the shank of the screwdriver. You may want to mount the carb first so that you have leverage. Use teflon tape on the threads of the new fitting. Joe-JDC
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By 312YBlock - 2 Years Ago
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Thanks Joe, the carburetor is installed. I’m going to spray it with WD 40 and let it sit for a while. I thought of filing down the sides of the plug and putting a wrench on it but want to try easy first. On second thought I think I’ll use a hacksaw blade and deepen the screw slot then try the screw driver/wrench.
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By 312YBlock - 2 Years Ago
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Success, thanks Joe/Ted 😊
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