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By Jack Groat - 4 Years Ago
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Well, my brand new harmonic balancer is stuck halfway on. Gotta pull it off with a removal tool. My "how to" book says to polish the crank nose with emery cloth. We did that but not seriously. Only thing I know to do now is to get really serious with some elbow grease and several sheets of emery cloth.
Could heat the center a little with a torch, but those balancers have a rubber ring between the inside hub and the outer ring which I am sure doesn't like a lot of heat..
Seems I never quit asking questions... I really have a lot of experience building motors but this engine has really been a handful..
Thanks guys..
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By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
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Just curious, is the new balancer a Powerbond or? The one I bought was tight, as they need to be, though not excessively so. There aren't too many options for a new manufacture Y-Block balancer. I've seen some on eBay that are hecho in Mexico, but they don't have any timing marks. Not a show stopper I guess.
The damper in a 200° oven ought not to hurt the elastomeric? Make sure SWMBO is visiting relatives or something. Then order some steaks from Kansas City. (Stay with me here.) They ship the steaks in those styrofoam containers with dry ice, to keep them frozen in shipping. Apply the dry ice to the crank snout.
The manuals used to specify "white lead" on the crank snout to aid installation. Get the damper installed, and enjoy the steaks. I'm sure she'll understand about the steaks when you explain your reasoning. A good steak should still be mooing when done just right.
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By Cliff - 4 Years Ago
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You need to measure the crank snout then measure in ID of the Damper, I find once in a wile the damper will need a little honing, this can be done with a brake hone, heating is not the way to do it.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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I find that it helps to have the right tools. I just bought a damper puller from CASCO. It arrived within 3 days and works well. They also sell a damper installer. Tools aren't cheap, but not having the right tools can be costly.
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By paul2748 - 4 Years Ago
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Beside a brake hone on the damper, look closely at the snout of the crank to see if there are any spots that cold be causing the problem. Specifically inspect the key way in the crank and pulley for any dirt or other material that can cause the problem. Also check the key closely for any thing amiss.
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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You don’t mention what brand damper or the application. High pressure lubricant or anti-seize is always recommended when installing the damper and that’s assuming the amount of interference fit is correct. This should not be said but I’ll mention it anyway, “Always use a damper installing tool and not a mallet to install the damper”.
I do deal with a large number of ATI dampers that require honing before they will press fit on the crankshaft snouts and those do require some honing to get the correct fit on the snout. When it comes to honing the damper holes, a special hone is required to resize a hole with a keyway slot. Trying to enlarge a hole with a keyway slot using the incorrect hone will egg shape the hole.
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By Jack Groat - 4 Years Ago
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I bought the damper from Summit Racing and the box had no labels. It did have timing marks.
I would like to report success. With a lot of emery cloth, some anti seize lubricant and a mallet (I hadn't read Ted's comments) it is now in place. I used a large round piece of wood so I didn't hit directly on the damper. Also, as soon as I could get the bolt started I used the bolt to take it the final distance.
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By Joe-JDC - 4 Years Ago
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Beating on the damper affects the thrust bearing surface, regardless of the material used. It shocks all the bearings in the rods, crankshaft, and can create stress cracks. Don't do it. Joe-JDC
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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It’s why I buy longer cap screws and flat washers to install dampers. Generously lube the threads. The first engines I ever over hauled had no threads. I was taught to install the damper with the pan off and use wedges to protect the thrust bearing.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 4 Years Ago
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I bought a NOS dampener to install on my spare motor, and when I realized it wouldn’t go on without honing, I took it to a local machine shop that had the proper tool. I THOUGHT my measuring tools were accurate, and gave the shop specific specs. When I finally installed it, I found it went on just a bit too easy (I had the correct installation tool). Lesson learned; Better to underestimate how much material to remove, since you can always take it back again if it’s still too tight.
P.S. Wondering the consequences of not enough installation interference, even if the dampener is well bolted down? (Ted?)
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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My experience, tho limited in running time, always “exchanged” metal when they were not a tight fit on both surfaces. The end where mine butted up to the crank and the sliding surface fit.
By run time I mean these were on racing engines not street driven and saw rpm in the 5500 to 6000 range.
On our current race 422” engine where the damper is tight fit and needs a breaker bar to press on, there has never been any exchanged metal and it sees 7200 at the end of the straights..
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By 55charliebird - 4 Years Ago
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I had my damper rebuilt by Winslow mfg. The tools from CASCO did the trick, taking it off and re-installing it. Especially with the engine still in the car.
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (11/4/2020)
P.S. Wondering the consequences of not enough installation interference, even if the dampener is well bolted down? (Ted?)
As long as the damper ring and rubber are doing their job, a damper with no or very minimal interference fit will not be a problem for awhile assuming the damper bolt is tight. As the damper becomes aged with either the ring becoming loose and/or the rubber getting hard and having less flexibility, then the damper will have an increased tendency to move at the crankshaft snout regardless of how tight the damper bolt is. The higher the compression ratio, the more the issue with this.
If the damper is of inadequate size or weight for the engine such as in the case of a modified engine using a stock oem style damper, then the lack of an interference fit will see some movement between the damper and the snout regardless of damper condition. This will eventually create wear at the crankshaft key that holds it in place. As the key becomes worn, so does the slot in the crankshaft snout that retains the key. As James mentions, there may be some galling or metal transfer taking place with any unwanted movement between the crankshaft snout and the damper.
The higher the horsepower output, the more sensitive the engine is to needing a damper that is ‘tuned’ to the needs of the engine. An interference fit insures that the damper does its job in counteracting those harmonics being created by the crankshaft.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 4 Years Ago
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Greetings to all: This very informative thread reminds me of the need to finally do something about my 60 year old damper. Other than the rock hard selastome material, it's in good shape so I would prefer to have it rebuilt. I may be wrong but I thought Ted has mentioned Damper Doctor on occasion. I have found others but would like to send it off to a very good and reliable place for this service. The enine a 312 built to specs of 1957. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks, JEFF.............. BTW, I purchased threaded rod, cut a section long enough to thread into the crankshaft until it reaches the bottom of the hole, place a heavy washer against the damper and use a well lubed nut to install the damper on the snout. Thais method has always worked well for me and saves the threads in the crank.
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By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
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Seems to me at one time I remember hearing some rumbles about there being some sort of falling out at Damper Doctors, and some of the flock forming Damper Dudes. Anyway those are the two best known firms that do this kind of thing.
It's interesting (to me at least) to note that the crankshaft can flex or twist up to +/- 2° back and forth, the balancer weight tends to lead and lag and absorb this. The situation to be avoided is what's known as resonance, there is a certain specific RPM where this tends to occur. The engineers try to design around this point and ensure this happens somewhere outside "normal" driving conditions. But this is where the "harmonic" part too comes in. There are also resonance points at multiples of that RPM. A crankshaft can crack, or even break, due to a failed balancer. I would have to think it would also beat the hell out of the mains bearings, and probably main seal oil leaks.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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I'm sending mine to Damper Dudes.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 4 Years Ago
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OK, just got off the phone with Damper Dude and they seem very eager to rebuild my damper. Won't be sent off until salt hits the streets in Michigan but I'll report the results when able. To me, anyways, this is really interesting stuff and a little bit over my head. It always amazed me how aircraft engines employed tuned movable weights on the crankshaft to dampen propeller harmonics and other resonant frequencies. I knew there was a certain amount of crankshaft twist but never realized it is possible for a damper to "move" on the snout. Thanks to all for the information....................
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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Damper Dudes did mine and since I’m in Ca. I got it back in 2 days. The timing marks were very feint so I carefully file tdc back in and marked with white paint. They called and told me they were leaving it as is. Additional lines were made by me at 12 and 32 and also marked with white. I can figure anything from those 2.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Did Damper Dudes offer the option of making the timing marks more visible?
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By paul2748 - 4 Years Ago
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The gripe I have with damper doctor , on a TBird damper, is that they didn't make the marks more visible, even when I specifically asked them to. Otherwise, it seems to be ok
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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55Blacktie. As I remember they said they were leaving as is. It was alright by me. It was an extra one I had as I knew mine had moved. I’d marked many in the past a my dad’s machine shop.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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I didn't realize that the timing marks are on the outer edge of the back pulley on my 55 Tbird. I was looking for marks on the damper, not the pulleys. I had to look at a close-up photo of a 55-57 Tbird pulley before I could find the timing marks. They are very easy to overlook, if you don't know where they are.
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By paul2748 - 4 Years Ago
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That's why it is suggested that you highlight the marks with white paint.
{quote]55blacktie (11/6/2020)
I didn't realize that the timing marks are on the outer edge of the back pulley on my 55 Tbird. I was looking for marks on the damper, not the pulleys. I had to look at a close-up photo of a 55-57 Tbird pulley before I could find the timing marks. They are very easy to overlook, if you don't know where they are.
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