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By rgrove - 19 Years Ago
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A lot of discussion has taken place here and other places about the issues with "modern" SFI rated oils, and especially synthetics, related to premature cam/lifter failure in flat tappet engines. As I do more research, I tend to beleive the threat more.... BUT. I have about 10k miles on my 292. I broke it in with conventional oil, and after a brief period converted to Mobil 1, and have been running that ever since. See the problem?? What do I do now? CW says you cant convert from Synth TO conventional. Is there a specific additive i should look for? Is there a synthetic diesel oil that would work instead? HELP! Please, any recommendations, and be specific about oils/brands/weights. I really need the help from all the brain power on this board!!! THANKS
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By petew - 19 Years Ago
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Shell Rotella will lose it's high zinc content after January 2007 in order to conform with Federal Government mandates. Zinc is what keeps flat tappet cams alive. GM makes an additive called "Lifter Prelube" part # 12345501 that according to a recent article in Hot Rod magazine will protect engines running flat tappet cams (that's us) with reduced zinc oils. As stated in the article just add a bottle at oil change and you are good to go. Pete
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By LON - 19 Years Ago
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rgroove, We are having the same problems here in Oz. At present I am using Pennzoil 15w 40 with a Comp Cams running -in additive in my rebuilt 292. The old (rebuilt ) 272 that was in my Vicky .lasted about 5000 mile .The cam was totally worn out . .That was a very expensive lesson . I wonder if Shell or Castrol would refund my money for a rebuild ???? A few engine builders I know , have been caught here as well .It seems ALL of the oil companies failed to mention that they removed the zinc ??? The lead has been taken out of the gas , now the zinc has gone from the oil .What next ??? Regards Lon
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By rgrove - 19 Years Ago
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[quote]petew (12/7/2006)
Shell Rotella will lose it's high zinc content after January 2007 in order to conform with Federal Government mandates. Zinc is what keeps flat tappet cams alive. GM makes an additive called "Lifter Prelube" part # 12345501 that according to a recent article in Hot Rod magazine will protect engines running flat tappet cams (that's us) with reduced zinc oils. As stated in the article just add a bottle at oil change and you are good to go. So if I understand this correctly, adding a bottle of the GM prelube per Mobil 1 oil change will provide suitable protection? Is this like an assembly lube? I would have thought that it shouldnt be run all the time? Interesting. So it sounds like I need to buy a bunch of the prelube and add it on every synth oil change? I guess now I need to figure out if i have trashed my cam by running synth for 9k miles....rat farts. Thanks to all for the replies very much. Any other thoughts or advice? These engines are such a pain to get to the cam/lifters, i really dont want to have to pull it and rebuild them again!!
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By rgrove - 19 Years Ago
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Also, are there any recommendations on oil weight with Mobil 1? car is only driven in the summer, and I really havent given the oil much thought until now...recommendations on that? THANKS. I am always amazed at the expertise and helpfulness here. I just wish I knew more to contirbute back!
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By bruce56 - 19 Years Ago
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This is from the Crane Flat Tappet Break-in Procedure: "Due to the EPA’s mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat tappet camshaft break-in procedure is more critical than ever before. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet camshafts. As a point of interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the first 20 minutes of “break-in” during which the bottoms of the tappets “mate-in” with the cam lobes. There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include: Shell Rotella T oil; Chevron Delo 400; and Mobil DELVAC oil. These oils are listed as diesel oils, but work great for flat camshaft “break-in”. We also recommend the use of Crane Cams # 99003-1 Break-in lube or GM “E.O.S.” (Engine Oil Supplement) Assembly Lubricant # 1052367. These should be poured over the lifters and camshaft prior to start up."
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By bruce56 - 19 Years Ago
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"Synthetic" Info from Crane: "At this point the initial “break-in” is complete. You can drive the vehicle in your normal manner. We recommend changing the oil and filter after 500 miles. We strongly recommend mineral oils with flat tappet camshafts to help assure proper lifter rotation.. You might want to put another 5000 miles on the cam before switching to synthetic, if that is your preference." Full text: http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/548e.pdf
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By DANIEL TINDER - 19 Years Ago
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Doesn't "Rotella" offer a synthetic version with the same high-zinc additive package?
rgrove should stock up on that.
Question: How to tell if Rotella in stores was made before the 1/07 change-over? I doubt they will toss out all existing unsold stock on new years eve!
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By sundance241 - 19 Years Ago
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Make sure to use a break-in lube..on the lobes and lifters .....that should take care of any problems with premature wear.....Luck !!
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By petew - 19 Years Ago
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rgrove, GM offers two of these supplements , the pre lube that I mentioned and a product called EOS. The EOS can only be used for initial engine break in and is not advised for use after that. apparently it has an additive package that can cause deposits if used past break in. The 12345501 pre lube can be added at each oil change, this according to the article in Hot Rod. Can you add it to Mobil 1 ? I have no idea. I think our old Y blocks are better suited to a high quality 10/30 or 10/40 mineral oil, my opinion based on what I have read is that most camshaft manufacturers don't like synthetic oils used with flat tappet cams . As was already pointed out lifter rotation is one issue. I currently run Shell Rotella 15/40 in my 292 and I have no issues at all with it plus it is available at Walmart for cheap. Pete
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By DANIEL TINDER - 19 Years Ago
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I noticed the new ROTELLA formular is on the shelf at my local Wallmart, but only the cheaper gallons (they turn over quicker). I loaded up the cart with old quarts, and will try to pick up some old gallons at the smaller auto stores.
The new label reads "Improved/Low-Pollution Formular". Naturally, there is no mention of what is missing or why the formular was changed. And, I'm sure if you contacted Shell you would never be able to get anyone to admit the truth!
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By paul2748 - 19 Years Ago
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There is a synthetic version of Rotella T, but Idon't know about the zinc concentration.
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By Y block Billy - 19 Years Ago
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This Rots, The goverment is trying to have everybody get rid of their old stuff, all the towns are changing their ordanances and after everybody to remove old parts cars in their yards and now this. I am tired of a few people in office making all these laws for the rest of us, I think they need to go. with all the communication there is no need for them to live on our tax dollars. If everyone is emailed a new law proposal and responds via email with a yes or no. We need to go back to the popular vote, not the few people in goverments vote. The electoral college is a joke also. let everybody vote on every law via email or snail mail. I think we need to rally and everybody drive an antique to washington for a week and plug up the city. Didn't the farmers do it with their tractors? I know people who have made a living with old parts junk yard for 4 generations, now they face cleaning it up and a $500.00 a day fine if not. Millions of people make their living off dealing with old stuff and they are trying to take the bread and butter off the table. The insurance companies are also making it ridiculously hard to have more than one car. Now that I have blew off let me get to my question, Lawn mowers still run a straight 30 weight non detegent, does this still have the zinc and will we have to resort back to this?
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By HoLun - 19 Years Ago
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What about those chevron Delo 400 HDMO, all the diesel oil at parts store are 15/40, but I am in texas so thats not a problem, the chevron delo have moly in it and from what i read on the oil board, it seem to protect the cam and lifter ok.
I tried Rotella T too, and I can tell no difference, as I have to adjust my valve clearance every week, must be those cheap chinese lifters i got...
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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bruce56 (12/7/2006)
This is from the Crane Flat Tappet Break-in Procedure: "Due to the EPA’s mandate for zinc removal from most motor oils, proper flat tappet camshaft break-in procedure is more critical than ever before. This is true for both hydraulic and mechanical flat tappet camshafts. As a point of interest, the most critical time in the life of a flat tappet camshaft is the first 20 minutes of “break-in” during which the bottoms of the tappets “mate-in” with the cam lobes. The cam lobe and lifter base depends upon splash lubrication here. There are some oils with additive packages that are better for camshaft “break-in”. These include: Shell Rotella T oil; Chevron Delo 400; and Mobil DELVAC oil. These oils are listed as diesel oils, but work great for flat camshaft “break-in”. We also recommend the use of Crane Cams # 99003-1 Break-in lube or GM “E.O.S.” (Engine Oil Supplement) Assembly Lubricant # 1052367. These should be poured over the lifters and camshaft prior to start up.
They are both diesel and gasoline rated engine oils (API Classification). Cam assembly lube (and there are debates concerning different manufacturers quality also) must be generously spread on the lobes and tappet faces. This is the only lubrication they will receive until the designed oil splash commences. Once lubed in this fashion, it is imperative the engine not be turned and is able to quick start to not lose the lubricant from the surfaces. Synthetic is not to be used for break-in and as previously noted, may not be feasible for proper tappet rotation on the cam lobes if used as a long-time lubricant (synthetics also do not have the zinc additives as they have been removed also). More Info On Lube- http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/camshaft-breakin-question-97574.html Discussion On Cam Break-In Techniques- http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/new-cam-break-info-104086.html
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By Ol Ford Guy - 19 Years Ago
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I bought a couple of gallons of Rotella today and noticed that the packaging label is a little different. There is a big splash of yellow on the label. I'll have to put it next to some older Rotella I bought this summer and compare the packaging and label more closely I looked to see if they listed the additives and didn't find any type of listing. FYI, it was $8.88 a gallon less 15% if you put it in their sale shopping bag.
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By glrbird - 19 Years Ago
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 Here is what the levels are in (new) Feb. issue of Car Craft. Pretty good article.
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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From ROTELLA.com
Shell Lubricants Announces Shell ROTELLA® T Meets API CJ-4 Standards
Jun 21, 2006
| Shell Lubricants has announced the development of a new formulation of Shell ROTELLA® T motor oil. The new formulation meets all of the specification criteria for the new API CJ-4 service category for diesel motor oil, as well as the requirements of the low emissions engines of leading diesel engine original equipment manufacturers (OEMs). In addition, Shell Rotella® T motor oil has already met the specification requirements for Caterpillar ECF-3, Detroit Diesel 93K218. | | |
In addition Shell ROTELLA® T motor oil has gained Cummins CES 20081, Mack EO-O Premium Plus 2007 and Volvo VDS-4 approvals. The new API CJ-4 Shell ROTELLA®T motor oil can also provide performance benefits when used in engines built prior to 2007. The API CJ-4 Shell ROTELLA®T motor oil will initially be available in bulk and drums beginning July 1st and in quart, gallon and pail packages beginning October 15th. Shell plans to continue to have its API CI-4 Plus Shell ROTELLA T motor oils available in bulk and drums beyond the introduction of the new API CJ-4 motor oils to meet customer demand. ""Shell ROTELLA®T motor oil, which meets or exceeds the API CJ-4 specification, will serve the diverse needs of fleets, owner/operators, industries and the light duty truck market, providing additional performance and benefits in wear reduction, soot handling and oxidation resistance. It also helps maximize the durability of Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs)," says Dan Arcy, Technical Marketing Manager, for Shell Lubricants. "With the successful development of this new formulation, Shell maintains its position as an industry leader actively involved in the development of new performance categories and developing motor oils that meet or exceed the latest specifications." As part of the Shell portfolio of heavy-duty diesel motor oils, a new brand, Shell Rimula® Super will soon be introduced to meet the new API CJ-4 specification, specifically targeting the needs of fleet operators. More details on this introduction will be forthcoming.
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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-A DISCUSSION of DIESEL OIL FROM ANOTHER FORUM- Please feel free to participate.
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By MoonShadow - 19 Years Ago
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Now you have totaly confused me!  (Not hard to do) Give me the one syllable answer! Don't through labels and numbers at me just list what oil to buy NOW before the change and what code to look for in the BAD oil! Rotella T sounds fine to me but?  Chuck in NH
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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If the oil has a label of CI-4, it is OK. If it has a rating of CJ-4, it is the new formulation.
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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Chuck stay away from those that have the letters sm in the API rating. Gary
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By pcmenten - 19 Years Ago
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y-blockhead (12/11/2006)
...contained zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate. On the same shelf were Mobil Diesel Oil, Rotella T, Valvoline Diesel Oil and couple of others. All were 10W 40.
Bingo, give this man a malt beverage.
ZDDP is the high-pressure lubricant needed for flat-tappet cams. The gasoline version is zinc diaryl dithiophosphate; different temperature range.
GM EOS, STP Oil Treatment, and WalMart TechLube is the stuff. Use on cam and lifters and on rocker arm tips during assembly, and add at each oil change.
Trucks (finally!) have to have catalytic converters starting in 2007. Hooray! They are responsible for 50% of current air pollution. But the ZDDP is bad for converters, so they're taking the stuff out of oil. If you have a non-converter type truck, better add the STP on a regular basis.
BTW, it's not the zinc that does the trick, it's the phosphate that coats the cam and lifters. The zinc is what will cause the sludge in the pan.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 19 Years Ago
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Anybody know what's in Lucas Oil treatment? I can't tell it from STP. The Lucas label says it's "100% Petroleum" but it is suggested for an assembly lube. Don't really know where these zinc/phosphate chemicals come from, but it occurs to me that they MIGHT be crude oil extracts?
I know one of the supposed benefits of STP is stickyness (still there after the oil runs off), but I have heard that machinists REALLY hate it as it is so difficult to remove, and makes machine work very tricky. I wonder if Lucas creates the same machining trouble?
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By PWH42 - 19 Years Ago
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A little off the subject,I don't know what's in Lucas oil treatments,but I know what it does to an old Fordomatic.The transmission in my 56 only had 29000 miles on it when I put it in a couple of years ago,but had been laying on my garage floor for 10 years.Naturally it leaked like crazy when we started driving the car.I poured a car bottle Lucas transmission sealer and conditioner in it and it hasn't leaked a drop since(about 5000 miles).Whatever is in it must be pretty good stuff.
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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Kultulz listed this Dec.17th on the hotrodders bullentin board.It's Hughes engines racing Inc. Extreme Pressure Oil Additive PH:309-745-9558. They say it mixes with conventional mineral based oils or synthetics and is for saving those flat tappet cam lobes.One pint per oil change (5 qts oil) and you're good to go.I hope this helps and I hope it works! >Gary .
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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There are multiple quality additives which I need to take the time to list and record. Also, racing oil has the proper amount of zinc for break-in but is not advisable to use on the street as it does not contain the detergent/dispersant packages needed to protect a street engine. SHELL ROTELLA CI-4 (CI-4 old formulation-CJ-4 new formulation) will most likely still be avaible from distributors and possibly truck stops for awhile.
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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Kultulz,What do you think about using the extreme pressure lubricant being recommended which has micron moly blended in it?This stuff does'nt reaily on zink so much.>Gary
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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I am not familiar with it. I go by what the top cam manufacturers recommend (COMP-CRANE). All I know is that they nailed the common cam failure problems that were evidenced right after the oil reformulation. Do you have any tech info to share?
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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Gary,Go too> http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/camshaft-breakin-guestion-97574.html scroll down to the picture of the Hughes Engines Racing Lube extreme pressure lubricant and click on (Tech Article ) and read What's Best for My Engine. >Gary
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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I am currently using shell rotella 5/40 syn. My oil pressure is down slightly from the mobil one which was rated at 15/50. I would rather run a slightly lower oil pressure than lose my cam and lifters.At 1500 of so RPMs my oil pressure stays on 50+lbs with the rotella.With the mobil you can add about 8 or so lbs.
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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OK... Excerpts- We are looking at oils and/or additives that can replace the zinc phosphate package. There are many named additives with cute names with z’s and x’s and numbers in their names that are worthless. One additive that is used by some additive manufacturers is lead. Yeah, it works, but it is very illegal if you haven’t heard. They fly under the radar until they have made enough money to move to LACE w:st="on">CancunLACE>. Another popular additive is moly. Moly comes in 2 different forms, but they are both called moly. The more common and popular is molybdenum disulfide; it is a dark gray color and is hard to get off of your hands or out of your clothes. This moly is a very good extreme pressure lubricant, but it falls out of suspension (won’t stay mixed in the oil) and the oil filter will take it out (or plug up). Some sources even complain that the moly disulfide is causing wear on some of the engine parts. > > There is an S.A.E. paper (2000-01-3553) done in conjunction with the guys at R.C.R. (Richard Childress Racing as if you don’t know) examining various anti-wear additives. The molybdenum additive used in one test would not mix properly with the original antiwear compounds resulting in higher than normal cam and lifter wear. The more we dig into this subject the more contradictory and confusing it gets. > > As far as I can determine at this point, the best stuff for your crankcase is a heavy duty oil (not an energy conserving oil) either a straight weight or 10W-40 or 20W-50 racing oil or 15W-40 diesel oil if it has a CI-4 or CI-4+ rating. At this time we do not recommend any synthetic oils for use with flat tappet cams. The Japanese have better (slicker) oils that still protect flat tappet cams, they are good enough that they can even improve fuel mileage and protect that ‘cadillac’ thing. With all the pressures from the environmentalists on our so-called elected representatives in Congress, along with $3.00 a gallon gasoline, the oil companies are doing lots of research on improving oils to catch up with the Japanese. One of the additives that may prove to be the answer is called molybdenum carbamate. This moly is soluble so it mixes with the oil and stays in suspension. It is very slippery like its cousin the gray stuff and it actually sticks to, or plates up, on metal parts as opposed to zinc phosphate, that does not stick to the metal. In the start and stop situations that our cars go through it is actually better than zinc phosphate. Some race only oils may have super high amounts of the zinc phosphate that is fine for a 500-mile race where the engine is never shut off To sum up our take on oil and additives for flat tappet cams, the zinc phosphate additive of 1200ppm or greater is an excellent and relatively inexpensive extreme pressure lubricant for flat tappet cams. Its drawback is that it does not stick to metal parts. The larger problem will be finding out just how much of this additive may be in particular oil. We like the good diesel oils; Shell Rotella is good, with a CI-4 or CI-4+ rating and has zinc phosphate. Finally, the molybdenum carbamate (soluble moly) additive is so good that it should even bring the crap oil up to the point where it can be used with flat tappet cams. Now Love Bug can use his paw – paw’s crappy oil! Not only that but this additive won’t affect the precious ‘cadillac’ converter like the zinc phosphate will. > > Molybdenum carbamate has been used for 50 years or more in the industrial and H.D. trucking industry. We will be offering this product as an oil additive. Hughes Engines Extreme Pressure Oil additive (#3690) is recommended specifically for flat tappet camshafts where they will be used in stop and go applications. It can be added to any oil, good or crap. It will not affect catalytic converters. Yes, you can use it with roller cams, too! It is super slippery (slick) so if your rocker and pushrod tips live longer don’t be surprised. The manufacturer claims, better mileage, improved fuel mileage and reduced oil consumption. All of that is possible, but we are offering it for cam and lifter protection. I did not fully read this Tech Article when I posted it. I assumed it contained the zinc package. What they are describing sounds like the answer to the whole problem. Thanks for pointing it out to me. |
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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speedpro56 (12/24/2006)I am currently using shell rotella 5/40 syn. My oil pressure is down slightly from the mobil one which was rated at 15/50. I would rather run a slightly lower oil pressure than lose my cam and lifters.At 1500 of so RPMs my oil pressure stays on 50+lbs with the rotella.With the mobil you can add about 8 or so lbs. Does this synthetic oil (SHELL ROTELLA SYN 5W-40) have a CI-4 rating? Is this a street engine or combination? A 15W-50 sounds awlful heavy for street (to me anyways). I have read tech reports whereas the syn. will not allow proper tappet rotation (too slick)
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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Kultulz,I've put hundreds of thousands of miles on y-blocks using syn oils with no problems and the engines stay a lot cleaner than any non syn could ever do.I drove my 56 t-bird from Columbus Ohio 5 years or so ago with a quart of water in my crank case from a blown head gasket ofter racing.It was driven 500 miles to my house and I figured I would just have the whole thing rebuilt if I could just make it home.Low and behold I made it home with the oil pressure gauge going all over the place.My engine builder dropped the oil pan and was amazed to find nothing wrong anywhere.No wear just a quart or so of antifreeze with the mobil one 15/50 drained out.The oil kept the antifreeze off the medal parts,a real testament to mobil 1. 15/50 is not really a thick oil,it runs raelly easy.The Shell Rotella syn has a C1-4 rating.I have a dot of paint on each one of my push rods and you can watch them rotate as the engine idles,no problems there and was still using modle 1 synthetic 15/50.I would think you would want the oil to be slick enough to not wear out the lifters and cam.Just make sure there's enough rake on the cam to insure rotation of the lifters.Sometimes the cam grinders forget to put the .002 rake required and there goes another cam. >Gary
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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speedpro56 (12/24/2006)I have a dot of paint on each one of my push rods and you can watch them rotate as the engine idles,no problems there and was still using modle 1 synthetic 15/50. Now that is a neat trick I never thought of. I will take your testament as to the use of syn.  Gary
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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Shell ROTELLA T- Approvals and Recommendations (Old Formula) API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF (Diesel Specs) API SL, SJ, SH (Gasoline Specs)
While called a DIESEL OIL, if marked as above with both DIESEL and GASOLINE SPECS, the oil is formulated to be used in either engine type. (The above is only describing old formulation SHELL ROTELLA T) The new formulation is CJ-4/SM and does not have the zinc package, so make sure you look at the specification when you pick up the container. It is confusing as SHELL is not changing the package appearance along with the new formulation. SHELL has announced the CI-4 formualtion will still be available but most likely will not be found in retail outlets. You will most likely have to find a SHELL LUBRICANTS distributor in your area or order it online. From http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/ask_our_expert/answercolumn_0506.html
SHELL ANSWER COLUMN Q What is the new API CJ-4 all about?
A Shell has qualified the next generation of Shell ROTELLA® T to meet the new API CJ-4 service category for diesel motor oil. This new performance category is required for 2007 model year on-highway diesel engines. The oil is also suitable for use in pre-2007 on-highway diesel engines.
The new API CJ-4 category, previously referred to as PC-10, is designed to help protect against engine wear, piston deposits, soot, high temperatures, oil foaming and aeration, viscosity loss due to shear and minimize blocking of the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF).
A critical feature in the new API CJ-4 category is com-patibility with exhaust after-treatment devices such as a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) that will be used in vehicles meeting 2007 diesel emission requirements.
Changes to the formulation of diesel motor oil were required to meet the new standards. API CJ-4 diesel engine oil in combination with Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel, with a maximum sulfur content of 15 parts per million, will be necessary to maintain the durability and performance of a DPF.
Priority was also given to maintaining a high level of oil performance in new and existing engines that had been established by previous API categories. API CJ-4 engine oil can be used in pre-2007 diesel engines.
While compatibility with DPFs is the primary reason API CJ-4 was developed, overall oil performance was also enhanced in several key areas that will benefit new and current diesel engines. Improvements were also made to provide increased soot-related viscosity control, increased control of piston deposits and oil consumption and better wear protection.
As an industry leader, Shell is at the forefront in the development of lubricants world wide. Our new formulation, Shell ROTELLA® T with Triple Protection technology, was developed through millions of miles in 2007 on-highway diesel engines, as well as in current diesel engines.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 19 Years Ago
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I read something interesting recently re: assembly lube. I knew that it was routine to change the oil filter in a fresh engine after break-in, and I always assumed it was to remove any metal shavings. Turns out some of the cam lubes have a teflon/moly-type component that clogs the filter. So, it would seem that aside from the mixing problem, it indicates extra caution is required when selecting an additive to replace the zinc package in oil.
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By KULTULZ - 19 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (12/25/2006)I knew that it was routine to change the oil filter in a fresh engine after break-in, and I always assumed it was to remove any metal shavings. Turns out some of the cam lubes have a teflon/moly-type component that clogs the filter. So, it would seem that aside from the mixing problem, it indicates extra caution is required when selecting an additive to replace the zinc package in oil. GOOD POINT!
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By rgrove - 19 Years Ago
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Holy tons of replies to my question, batman! Boy oh boy - I go away for a bit and all kinds of activity... Thanks to everyone for the thoughts! I have tried to get a hold of anybody at Mobil to try to get some answers, to no avail. One of the main questions I still ahve to get answered is whether once you are running synthetics you can switch back? If I dont, will I still have good cam protection with an oil additive and a synth oil? Is this as simple as adding STP at every synth oil change? Also, anybody know a good oil analysis place? I want to get that done, and also dot my pushrods to see if they are all rotating.... Thanks!!
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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I put a dot of white paint just under the pushrod cup for easy viewing and you can leave it there for future viewing. Yes you can switch back to conventional oil without adverse affects on the engine. I've done it a few times and always went back to synthetic because it's been a better oil for me. Gary
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By rgrove - 19 Years Ago
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Yes, I have always had amazing results from Synthetic in my cars. insides of the engine are near spotless, flows well at start up, no measureable wear when ive had it in other engines... Id be hard pressed to give up on it.....Plus, the ability to resisest corrosion during winter storage, etc.... So, is the answer as simple as adding STP oil treatment or that Hughes Oil additive to synthetic at each oil change? I know people have mentioned the GM EOS, but I would hate to think that my FORD would need anything by GM to survive!!
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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You would think with the synthetic oils being slicker you would'nt even need the zink package.With proper cam breakin I've had less problems with anything going bad including camshafts when using synthetics.I'm looking real hard at the Hughes oil additive just for the fact it seems to be for the flat tappet cams.Unless someone has a better idea other than going back the non synthetic oils what choice do we have? Gary
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By DANIEL TINDER - 19 Years Ago
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Just out of curiosity, I wonder if any of you guys using synthetic oil have problems with leaks? Can old cork Y-block gaskets really keep it in?
I alway felt the extended additive life of synthetic was cancelled out by the added cost and increased wear that must result by retaining all that dirt the filter can't remove. The much higher price of synthetic would likely tempt you to extend the drain interval.
Though some minor power loss may result with a PCV system, if you are buying synthetic oil and don't have one, you could be guilty of a "cart before the horse" form of false economy.
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By speedpro56 - 19 Years Ago
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Don't use cheap cork gaskets,any oil will leak thru that material.I use the stuff from best gasket which is rubber or the composit material similer to what you use to get from felpro. I see no significant wear using synthetic oil or dirty deposits like you get from regular mineral based oils and thats going 7500 miles between changes including a good K&N oil filter. I do the same with my wifes car only I take it 10,000 between changes including a pureoil filter with no problems at all using 5/30 mobil-1.Her car is a lot newer than mine,(2000 model) and fast approching 100,000 miles. I would not consider puting that in my t-birb. No pvc system in the 56 t-bird,just the breather tube out the rear of the pushrod cover and no leaks here.I do have a small leak out the rear main seal which is a pain in the behind.It has to set a while to leave its small drip calling card. What I like about synthetic oil is after a couple hundred thousand miles the engines in whatever you have still seem to run good while the other parts are wearing out. Gary
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By John Del Bene - 18 Years Ago
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Hi, With all this talk about motor oil for the y-blocks was there mention of oil to use for a motor that is old & hasn't just been rebuilt. I've been using 10-30 regular motor oil since I bought my car (56 Ford Vic) in 2001
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By PWH42 - 18 Years Ago
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Good question. I have a 32,000 original mile engine(never been worked on)in my 56.I've been using Havoline 15-40 in it and am now wondering if I should be something different.
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By speedpro56 - 18 Years Ago
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Since you don't have lots of valve spring pressure etcs I wouldn't worry that much about losing your cam or lifters. Being the engine is all original your spring pressure's probably not over 80 or so lbs on the seat closed.If you were to change to synthetic oil I've heard on older engines that they could start leaking oil.I've been told synthetic will clean up the engine on the inside including the seals and thats where the leaks can occur.The sludge buildup on the seals helps to keep them from leaking,clean the sludge off and any seal with any cracks at all well there you go,The Dreaded Marks.That's the only negative I've heard on synthetic oils. I would think you would be allright using the oil you're using now and someone else may have some more ideas we can use.
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By speedpro56 - 18 Years Ago
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I need to restate that cleaning the sludge off seals in any engine in my opinion is still a good thing.I think keeping engines clean inside is just as inportant as the outside,that being said,then it would not be a negative on synthetic oil.It has been my experience that oil pressure tends to go up and hold better when using synthetic vs reg mineral oils.Example when using 15/50W modil 1 syn and then Havoline 20/50W the mobil 1 would run an average of 10 lbs more pressure when warmed up in my t-bird cruising.
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By MoonShadow - 18 Years Ago
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Before when I ran a multiple viscosity oil the rear seal leaked like a sieve. I change to straight 30W and it slowed considerably. That is something to consider. My new engine has no seal problem so I'm going to try the Rotella T and see what happens. Chuck in NH
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By joey - 18 Years Ago
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I have had the similar experience in reverse. In the past I have gone from 30W in the summer to thinner multiple viscosity (always mineral) in the winter, and small leaks have gotten bigger. I have been wondering if I should go to a synthetic with the Hughes oil additive. My 312 has about 8,500 miles after a total rebuild, and has always been run on standard oils.
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By speedpro56 - 18 Years Ago
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I'm gonna try the Hughes oil additive with the rotella 5/40W synthetic and see if it works.
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By speedpro56 - 18 Years Ago
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Bud,I talked with Kevin extensively at Hughs engines and they've been using the stuff over a year in their flat tappet engines with great success.He also assured me the Micron Moly is nothing like the teflon used in Slick 50 that would clog up the oil filters.I have alot of doe in my engines and I'm hoping not to lose any thru what I call sud quality oils.Like you say it's cheep insurance.You can call them at 309-745-9558.
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