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By dennis22 - 4 Years Ago
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Hi everyone,
Thought I’d just throw this out to you guys to see if you might be able to help me troubleshoot my engine starting issue.
So, 18 months ago I dropped the engine (272 y block) into my 59 F100 and connected all the wiring (roughly) and turned the key and she started and ran good. I then went away for work for 18 months. Since I’ve been back I have tidied up the wiring in the engine bay (trimmed everything to length and harness wrapped everything).
I tried to kick it over last night but it flattened my battery after all the cranking. I have new fuel and pressure (fuel tank newly installed the other day), new fuel lines, new filter etc.
Anyway she coughs and splutters like the engine is wanting to start (kind of sounds like its popping and progressively getting faster like it’s about to start but doesn’t)
Can’t figure out why it won’t start, I thought I might have missed a wire when tidying up engine bay but I checked photos from 18 months ago and it’s all the same.
Few things to note (all new 18 months ago)
- new starter motor
- battery is 12.5v (bit low, so I ordered a battery charger to bump it up)
- new MSD distributor and blaster 2 coil
- new plug wires
- Plugs New
- new edlebrock carb
- good earths to block, cab and frame
- distributor hasn’t been touched
 
Plugs 5 & 6
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By Daniel Jessup - 4 Years Ago
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Quite a bit could have happened in 18 months. Mostly fuel related if you let ethanol sit that long. I'd say hit the basics on this first - check to see you have FRESH, clean gasoline shooting down the throats of your primaries when you hit the throttle linkage. Look at my post in my personal blog about rebuilding an Edelbrock carburetor after ethanol had done it's dirty work... https://www.hotrodreverend.com/post/2019/04/19/1955-ford-part-75-csi-work-on-the-edelbrock-carburetor-and-ignition. Next, double check your ignition - hot, timed spark to each cylinder? With some of the wiring mods you have done, maybe you have some trouble there but if it is trying to start (sputtering/coughing like you say) then maybe it is a timing issue. 12.5 volts on a new engine with fresh rings, etc, would be a little weak to start an engine - especially if you have any ground issues. (Fresh paint, etc, getting in the way of bare metal contacts) I would say as well that if you removed any of the spark plug wires now would be a good time to double check firing order and especially the timing. And of course the third part of this recipe for each cylinder's consumption of fuel/air to make power is compression. I would think that compression would be the least of your trouble if nothing has been touched. I gave these in order of what I think may be the best plan of attack.
Let us know what you find
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By miker - 4 Years Ago
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I think The HHR advice is right. The plugs look a little dark, but short run time might have done that. The fuel evap in the Edelbrock's have been a problem for me before and worse with ethanol fuel.
Way in the past I had to shut down several gas engines for the winter, some auto sized, some small. I always ran them dry in the fall. In the spring I used a little gas to prime them, cranked them, then used some starter fluid. If there's any spark it'll fire, most of the time that was enough to get them to start. I still do that.
The other thing is a 12.5 volt battery might be showing a lot less voltage while cranking resulting in a weak or no spark. If you can find a helper, try checking the voltage while cranking.
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By dennis22 - 4 Years Ago
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Hi Daniel/Miker
The carby was new 18 months ago, the fuel lines are all new, there is fresh fuel evenly squirting into the primary’s and when I left for the 18 month work contract I drained the carby, so there shouldn’t be any issues there as no fuel was sitting.
I am leaning toward an ignition issue. But I wouldn’t have thought it would have been an issue because the distributor has been locked down tight since the last start. Leads haven’t been removed, literally nothing has been touched.
The new wiring harness was 99% complete prior to leaving, I just had to tidy up the engine bay.
Prior to the tidy up- engine started fine like this.
All the grounds on the car were throughly cleaned last week.
Thanks for the input, I’ll let it digest and come back at it later on.
I will try a fresh battery (the battery came from the engine test stand and has been sitting a long time) and If that doesn’t work, I’ll loosen the distributor hold down and give it some timing. Oh and I’ll clean up the plugs.
Thanks for the help, always appreciated!!!
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By miker - 4 Years Ago
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I'd pull the coil wire, and check spark to ground while cranking, if it's not blue, then the cranking voltage. You've done everything right to leave it, but low voltage while cranking might be making the spark weak or intermittent. If it was a points dizzy I'd say check for corrosion, but electronics can do weird stuff on low voltage.
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By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
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I agree with Miker. Check the coil and distributor wires. Sounds like ignition to me. I had a similar issue that drove me crazy a few years ago. Turned out to be a burnt coil wire. It was touching just enough for the engine to run and sputter.
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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Those are good pictures of the spark plugs. Maybe too good as it shows a couple of plugs that are potentially carbon and/or fuel fouled. If you are attempting to start that engine with 18+ month old ethanol laden gasoline, then that’s also a problem and especially if it is not a premium grade of fuel to begin with.
My recommendation is a new set of spark plugs and a fresh load of fuel.
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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Tongue-in-cheek.... The engine is pissed off at you. You “dropped” it in and then “kicked” it over...Everytime I go near my “mechanical” stuff it knows my attitude. I try to stay positive.
All kidding aside; Since you have a plug out connect it to a wire, ground it and look for a spark. Like others said it be bright. Clean or change the plugs like Ted says. I would even check the spark with a new plug to see if there is a difference from the first test.
It’s just an engine and will be something simple. Good luck...
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By dennis22 - 4 Years Ago
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I tried a new battery and got the same result. It was late so I didn’t investigate further but once my batt charger arrives, next on the list will be to clean the plugs (they have only had a hand full of starts), check plug spark, check coil spark and loosen distributor and give it some timing. Oh and give her some love for drylakes, haha!
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By blocky - 4 Years Ago
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i hate to have a negative attitude but is it remotely possible you may have a stuck valve or two?.i hope this is wrong but it may be something to think about??
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By panel driver - 4 Years Ago
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I would check compression, maybe the piston rings stuck and compression is low. If so add some oil to the cylinder and recheck compression.
Just an idea.
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By Daniel Jessup - 4 Years Ago
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miker (4/12/2020)
I think The HHR advice ... LOL I am the HRR, but I do drive a C*******t HHR for a grocery getter! 
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By Joe-JDC - 4 Years Ago
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Have you checked inside the distributor cap for corrosion, moisture, bent rotor tang, loose wire? Plug wires completely snug into the cap? MSD adapter plug for corrosion? Those plugs look like they really need replacing IMO. Joe-JDC
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By dennis22 - 4 Years Ago
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the suggestions and help on this issue!
I got her started today!
Turns out she just wanted a lot more timing, and I also cleaned up the plugs and the Ctek battery charger worked a treat (12.75v)
What I can’t understand is that I had the timing dialed in and locked down tight before I left. I would have thought it would just kick right over.
Anyway, This is where I’m at.
- 10 deg BTDC
- 750rpm
- 38 all in at 3000rpm
With the vac advance hooked up it reads 20 BTDC at 750rpm and about 55-60 at 3000rpm but the damper degrees only reads to 50.
Previously I did change the MSD springs to get the timing all in at 3000.
If anyone has any suggestions or comment about that timing combo please comment.
Plugs cleaned
Plugs cleaned
No1 plug after 15 min run/idle time.
I still have to get the carb tuned up right.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 4 Years Ago
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I may be misunderstanding your last post but it looks like your vacuum advance is piped in to manifold vacuum rather than ported vacuum. Final settings @ 750rpm you stated 10* no vacuum and 20* with vacuum hooked up. Could you have forgot to disconnect the vacuum line and then set the static timing @ 10*before your trip? This would have put the base timing somewhere around 0*. When you returned from your trip, due to all the pumping and cranking, the plugs became wet fouled on top of carbon that may have already existed, thus providing a conductive path from center electrode to ground. The "all in at 3000" should be checked with vacuum disconnected because it (vacuum advance) won't be a factor when on the road at 3000rpm and load. Timing is dependent on many factors but 38* total @ 3000 as you reported in your final settings seems to work for most of us. Just my $.02, JEFF.................
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By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
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The vacuum advance canister will start to pull in additional timing just about as soon as it comes off factory idle RPM, which was something like 450-550 iirc, even connected to a "spark port". In fact I'm persuaded this is why most people bump up the RPM over factory spec, it smooths out because of the "extra" advance.
I run about 52° BTDC with vacuum advance, indicated on the balancer in neutral in the garage. There is very little load on the engine at cruise on flat ground, but there is some, so the 52° In neutral is not an accurate number when out on the road. Seems to me in stock form the shop manual specs pencil out to 47° or somesuch - but keep in mind these numbers assume the use of a distributor machine.
Vacuum advance is pretty hard to actually measure without one. If you can get more advance than whatever is indicated on the balancer, it will not hurt anything, if it is not rattling or pinging. You would want to achieve the factory spec regardless of what is shown on the balancer in neutral, if that makes sense.
KULTULZ has volunteered in the past to ride in the engine bay with a timing light and check, to provide actual data and the furtherance of Y Block Knowledge. (with the proviso for a visit to Dairy Queen for ice cream afterwards) Sounds fair. If you live close this would be an outstanding idea!
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By dennis22 - 4 Years Ago
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Thanks for your 2 cents Jeff.
I can fairly confidently say that noting had changed and the vac line was still intact as I had it timed and running great when on the engine stand, but who knows, something had changed?
Regarding manifold/ported vacuum- I don’t exactly understand but I did read some posts here and the comments were supporting manifold vacuum. Not sure what the difference translates to. I do know with manifold vac the timing jumps up and rpm increases when connected. I had to wind back the throttle screw to bring down the rpm.
All in timing was checked with vac advance disconnected.
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By dennis22 - 4 Years Ago
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Tedster, thanks for the feed back!
The 272 has a 270y cam from JM and just doesn’t want to idle below 750, if I go below 750 it stalls. I’m not sure if it’s the cam or if the carb needs tuning? Anyway it seems happy at 750.
The truck is a few more weeks away from being on the road but I’ll keep an ear out for any rattling or pinging. I should mention, the engine has 10-12 vacuum because of the cam. I’ll probably get a vac canister or vac pump to help with the vac assisted brakes, but I’ll see how it drives first.
Haha haha, Kultulz can ride the 59’s and check timing, but no Dairy Queen here in Australia. I think our alternative would be Cold Rock, but they are few and far between.
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