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By '49 bomb! - 4 Years Ago
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Hi guys! I know most of you visit the
Other sites. So for those who don't,
Here is my "issue". I'm sure it's been
Discussed before. I have a " rebuilt
Y block". It has "trips". The center carb.
Has a 7.5 P.V. rebuilt. jets#52. The two
Outer carbs. Have no P.V. or mixture screws. They are just there to dump
Fuel! Jets# 50. They were reworked
By "Charlie", to make sure throttle shafts
Are shut! The motor has 20# vacuum
@idle. Here is the issue I am having, I have to constantly run with the choke about halfway closed. If I don't it won't accelerate or run? I've tried all the usual checks for vacuum leaks etc. Maybe someone has a suggestion on this site?
Thanks for all replies!
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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I’ll suggest blocking off the end carbs at the manifold and running off of the center carb only. If that fixes the problem, then revisit the end carbs. I personally like the idle mixture screws in place on the end carbs for those instances that the end carb throttle blades do not close off completely. I’ve also had cases where the camshaft was too wild for the carbs and the air bleeds had to be downsized or modified accordingly. With 20”Hg manifold vacuum I don’t think your camshaft is overly wild so that should not be a problem. You might mention the camshaft specs anyhow just to rule that out.
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By '49 bomb! - 4 Years Ago
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Thanks for reply! It's a "stock Rebuild".
Meaning no over bore. Stock cam.
And rebuilt heads. Nothing exotic..
Previously when I had this "issue". I did take off both end carburetors,and I used block off plates and ran just on the center carburetor. Honestly, it ran perfectly fine with that center carburetor. Here is why I'm confused? I sent both of those end carburetors to "Charlie".he did a fine job making sure the throttle plates were completely shut. BUT! When I hold my hand over the throat of the end carburetor, i can feel it drawing my hand down like it's sucking air...
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By oldcarmark - 4 Years Ago
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Are both end Carbs drawing Air or just One? There's your problem I think. Its running lean unless You activate the Choke to it draws more Fuel through the Center Carb. Additional Air from end Carb(s) is leaning out the Mixture.. Maybe U should contact Charlie and ask Him why its drawing Air even though the Throttle Plates are supposedly closed.
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By paul2748 - 4 Years Ago
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What do you have in place of the mixture screws on the end carbs? As Ted mentioned, it;s better to have these in place and shut.
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By '49 bomb! - 4 Years Ago
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Still love your convertible, it's beautiful!
Back to business, both outer carbs are models # 59. I don't know what years these were used on? BUT! For whatever reason they don't have any idle mixture screw port's drilled in them! Or perhaps someone modified them and used a different base plate?. Anyways, I don't have a way to make sure throttle plates are closing all the way. Other than just feeling the linkage and visually looking down into the throat.
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By LD-Ordie - 4 Years Ago
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Been reading your problem also on the Ford Barn, so removing the outer carbs is a new variable you didn't mention before. Removing one at a time may help find which one, if not both. So, I own 3 vehicles with Tri-Power's, all work perfect! I bought the base plate kit's from Charlie Price for all three. The new base plates have no idle mixture screws and seal damn near 100% If your feeling a air draw thru the secondaries, You need to pull them and verify where and why. I did all the rebuilds on mine, just bought his parts, but I really hear nothing but good stuff coming from him, so it's interesting your having issues after he serviced them. This has got to be something dumb that your missing, double check your progressive linkage as if they are not set right, you could be holding a butterfly open just a bit
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By '49 bomb! - 4 Years Ago
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Let me clarify something! I am saying the the guy did an outstanding job reworking the two outer carburetors.
There is no issue with his work!
As I stated previously this was an "inherited issue"! So obviously there is something more going on here, I adjusted the linkage, to make sure that there is no binding and the throttle plates are completely shut! Since it is sucking air in the end carburetor, there is obviously a slight vacuum leak somewhere. My next step is to build a small smoke machine and try to locate it. I appreciate all the input guys!
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By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
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I had a similar problem with my trips. I isolated the problem by blocking off the end manifold holes and switching the main bodies around. This is easily done. Charlie sets up his end carbs without power valves and leaves the idle circuits. This allows you to fine tune the idle if you have a wilder camshaft like mine. My problem was in one of the carbs. Charlie built a new carb for me and it worked fine. Those old carbs are the problem. I don't believe Charlie ever found the problem. It was easier to build another. He has a mountain of them behind his shop.
I sold my trips on EBay. Not because they didn't work, I grew tired of dealing with old parts. I'm setting up my dual quads with new Holleys.
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By oldcarmark - 4 Years Ago
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'49 bomb! (1/16/2020)
Let me clarify something! I am saying the the guy did an outstanding job reworking the two outer carburetors. There is no issue with his work! As I stated previously this was an "inherited issue"! So obviously there is something more going on here, I adjusted the linkage, to make sure that there is no binding and the throttle plates are completely shut! Since it is sucking air in the end carburetor, there is obviously a slight vacuum leak somewhere. My next step is to build a small smoke machine and try to locate it. I appreciate all the input guys!
You can use an unlit Propane Torch or a can of Ether Spray to check for Leak. Engine will speed up when fuel drawn in where its leaking.
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By lowrider - 4 Years Ago
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I went through the same thing on my 57 a few years ago. What eventually fixed mine was I purchased 2 new throttle bases (from Charlie Price) for the outer carbs. I still have a whole shelf full of Holley 94 carbs I tried to run on the outer ends of my 3x2 set up to fix it from drawing vacuum.. The new bases was the only way I could stop the outer carbs from sucking air. As others have mentioned, I blocked off the outer carbs and adjusted the center carb to run correctly first. After that I installed the outer carbs with the new bases and it ran great. It's been a few years but I think I was running 57 jets in the primary carb and 55 in the secondary carbs. I was running a good size Comp cam in it to so I was dealing with low engine vacuum also. It was a lot of trial and error but I eventually got it to run good.
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By oldcarmark - 4 Years Ago
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 I have been following this Topic with great Interest. I bought a complete 3 x 2 Setup off Ebay. .Professionally built . Offenhauser Manifold. 3 matched "59" Carbs. Never installed.The end Carbs have both Power Valves and Idle Screws intact. #51 Jets. I don't know what Jets are in the Center Carb yet. I have a new Progressive Linkage from Charlie Price. What is the preferred Base and power Valve setup for the end Carbs? No Power Valve? No Idle Screws? Or try it the way it is now and see what happens? There is only Choke on Center Carb. The Vacuum outlet for Distributor is plugged. Does that only work with the Original Loadomatic Distributor? Currently I have a 4160 Holley with later Distributor. Looking for a little more " Bling" not really better Performance. Stock Engine.
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By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
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Assuming you have a '57 or later distributor, your trips should work. Make block off plates for the end carbs. I made mine out of sheet aluminum. Install the center carb and tune the engine to idle smoothly and drive without hesitation. This will flush out any major issues. When you are happy, install the end carbs and hook up the progressive linkage. The end carbs only open at full throttle.
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By LD-Ordie - 4 Years Ago
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I had all three carbs stock after the initial instal. I personally had a difficult time tuning at idle and low speed since even with the outer idle screws adjusted all the way down, they were still sucking enough air to make a rough, rich idle. I bought the kit from Charlie that includes all three base plates with idle screws removed in the outer's, and seal up great. no power valves in outer carbs, 51 jets in outer, 52 in the center carb, progressive linkage, 1.5 lbs of fuel pressure, no vacuum advance to a Mallory Unilite dist. Works great for me with 15 mpg
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By oldcarmark - 4 Years Ago
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What did You use for a Fuel Pressure Regulator? Most of the Ones I found Online won't regulate down to that Pressure.
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By 30 coupe - 4 Years Ago
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old car mark, .make sure that your intake ports match the ports in the head. some if not all of the offy manifolds have small ports. they are also the worst performing manifolds according to tests made by Ted Eaton.
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By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
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A pressure regulator is required if a non stock fuel pump is used. Those old carbs don't like a lot of fuel pressure. As I remember, Charlie told me to hold it at 3-4 pounds. Check with Charlie.
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By pintoplumber - 4 Years Ago
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lowrider (1/18/2020)
I went through the same thing on my 57 a few years ago. What eventually fixed mine was I purchased 2 new throttle bases (from Charlie Price) for the outer carbs. I still have a whole shelf full of Holley 94 carbs I tried to run on the outer ends of my 3x2 set up to fix it from drawing vacuum.. The new bases was the only way I could stop the outer carbs from sucking air. As others have mentioned, I blocked off the outer carbs and adjusted the center carb to run correctly first. After that I installed the outer carbs with the new bases and it ran great. It's been a few years but I think I was running 57 jets in the primary carb and 55 in the secondary carbs. I was running a good size Comp cam in it to so I was dealing with low engine vacuum also. It was a lot of trial and error but I eventually got it to run good.
Mark, my Y measures 283”. I’ve been running a tripower since 2003. I plumbed it with shut off valves for each carb. Ran on the center one initially. I have a 6.5 power valve in the center carb and plugs in the end carbs. Running .51 jets in all three carbs. I had a problem with the rear carb leaking last fall when I was up in the mountains. I could turn the end carbs off and just run on the center one.
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By '49 bomb! - 4 Years Ago
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Let's shift gears here a bit. Want to discuss distributors? I have an MSD electronic distributor. It has a vacuum canister on it. I currently do you have it functioning. Been reading some of these comments, and see some of you guys have yours blocked off? If it has a vacuum canister on it ,it should be working, correct? If you have it plugged off , then ,it's not advancing? What do you guys think about this?
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By charliemccraney - 4 Years Ago
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The vacuum advance on a dual advance distributor is an economy feature and is not required. On a street vehicle, it is best to have it functioning but it's fine if it is not.
The problem with using it with older carbs is that the older carbs will not provide the right vacuum signal. This means that the carb has to be modified to produce a correct signal or manifold vacuum can be used. Manifold vacuum might require the use of a spacer with a vacuum port or drilling and tapping the manifold if a source for manifold vacuum does not already exist or is not available.
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By LD-Ordie - 4 Years Ago
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oldcarmark (1/18/2020)
What did You use for a Fuel Pressure Regulator? Most of the Ones I found Online won't regulate down to that Pressure.
I bought a Holley low pressure regulator from Charlie Price via his E-Bay store, Realrodder. 1-4 PSI for around $40.
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By '49 bomb! - 4 Years Ago
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I'm running a direct vacuum source,
From the port in the manifold, for
My vacuum advance..
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By oldcarmark - 4 Years Ago
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LD-Ordie (1/19/2020)
oldcarmark (1/18/2020)
What did You use for a Fuel Pressure Regulator? Most of the Ones I found Online won't regulate down to that Pressure. I bought a Holley low pressure regulator from Charlie Price via his E-Bay store, Realrodder. 1-4 PSI for around $40.
Sounds like the 12-804 Holley Regulator. Now they are made offshore and some are assembled with the wrong Spring. Should be Red for low Pressure Unit and light Gold for the higher Pressure Units. I read some Reviews where Buyers were very unhappy because the low Pressure Units aren't low Pressure. As I understand it the only difference between the 12-803 and 12-804 ( low pressure) is the Spring.
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By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
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When I bought my car it still had the original Load-O-Matic distributor and T Pot Carb. I replaced them with a stock 1957 distributor and a Holley 1848-1 465 with an iron 1957 "B" intake and "G" heads off a 57 engine. At the same time I installed a Pertronix unit and coil. I also changed to lighter advance springs. It was an immediate and significant change you could feel. I time my engine at full advance using a dial stye timing light with the vacuum advance disconnected. I run 38 degrees full advance with pump high test gas and it runs great. My car runs fine with the vacuum advance line off. It idles and drives around town much better with it connected. The vacuum advance makes for better drivability. It has no affect on full throttle operation.
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By LD-Ordie - 4 Years Ago
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First I've heard of this, hard to buy anything not made off shore these days, kinda sad....... So I have a proper gauge before my fuel block and have it adjusted. Been on for several years, so hopefully it will last
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By NY59F100 - 4 Years Ago
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I've been very interested in this post since I just set up my Edelbrock 553 last fall. I can't speak from years of experience, but I can tell you what I've done. I originally bought all the rebuild parts from Charlie at Vintage Speed. I put new plates under the secondaries (without idle screws) and installed power valve plugs when I rebuilt them. I'd have to look back at the kit and invoice to see what size power valve I put in the primary. I had 5 carbs to choose from when I was rebuilding, but all of my carbs were the bigger 1 1/16" venturi. I installed everything onto the manifold and hooked up the progressive linkage, but I didn't get any further than that 3 years ago.
Last fall, I contacted Dick York (Dicks' Hot Rod Carbs) and talked to him about building fuel lines for me. I ended up sending him my manifold and carbs, and he proceeded to check over my rebuilds. He found a few things that I had done incorrectly (float levels, replaced the seal on the power valves and plugs to be compatible with ethanol fuels, and changed my jets). I had no idea what jets to use, so I just re-installed the jets that were there. I believe we went with .051 in the secondaries and .055 in the primary. (I may be wrong on that). He said Holley 94s should only ever have 1.0-1.5 psi and did mention that everyone will tell you different, including Charlie. [Both Charlie and Dick were amazingly knowledgeable and have years of experience in multi-carb setups.]
Aside from a few fuel leaks, re-clocking the distributor, and air cleaner fitment, the motor runs great in my 59 F100. It's been driven through town and down the highway. I've only put a couple hundred miles since winter set in on us. I'm running an MSD 8383. The vacuum source is from the base of the primary carb, modified using the information in Ted's article. The port in front of the primary carb is being used for the PCV.
Please excuse the picture. I pulled it off a video I took of it running. The valve covers will be replaced with Edelbrock covers in the spring.
For anyone looking to add a vacuum source, here's the link to Ted's article. I did this modification for the single 2-bbl Holley 94 on my 272 in the 55 Fairlane and the 3x2 Edelbrock 553.
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2010/02/07/modifying-the-holley-94-two-barrel-for-late-model-distributors/
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By '49 bomb! - 4 Years Ago
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Looking at your picture,is there any particular reason why you ran your fuel log on the passenger side and made yourself all that extra work to bend those fuel lines? Mine are on the driver side quite easily made. Just curious?
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By NY59F100 - 4 Years Ago
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Two main reasons: 1. I wanted the progressive linkage to be visible and easily accessible on the left side.
2. All the 3x2 setups I ever see all look the same with the same three bent lines. I wanted something different.
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By LD-Ordie - 4 Years Ago
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NY59F100 (1/21/2020)
Two main reasons: 1. I wanted the progressive linkage to be visible and easily accessible on the left side. 2. All the 3x2 setups I ever see all look the same with the same three bent lines. I wanted something different.
Really nice looking set up, fuel lines look cool! Are they stainless? What air cleaners are you using? Don't remember seeing those around and I'm looking for something different for my 55. So I like making up my own fuel lines using AN fittings. I guess from my days of working on aircraft in the Navy. Something hot rodders brought home after WW II.
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By LD-Ordie - 4 Years Ago
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OK 59F100, I now see these are from Dicks, for some reason, I have never stumbled onto his website. He has a nice alternative to the normal air cleaners, and other cool stuff
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By NY59F100 - 4 Years Ago
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He has quite a bit of really cool items. He machines just about everything. The air cleaner covers are solid aluminum and great quality. I did decide to paint the centers. Just my take on it. Dick is a great guy to deal with, extremely knowledgeable, and he'll make sure everything is working now and in the future. He is direct and to-the-point when you talk to him, but I wouldn't hesitate to work with him again.
Let me know if you have any other questions. The fuel lines are polished stainless. He'll bend them any way you can dream up, if you decide to have him make them for you.
In case anyone was interested, I posted the link to Ted's article in my previous post. It's here if you don't see it.
Modifying the Holley 94
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By oldcarmark - 4 Years Ago
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NY59F100 (1/22/2020)
He has quite a bit of really cool items. He machines just about everything. The air cleaner covers are solid aluminum and great quality. I did decide to paint the centers. Just my take on it. Dick is a great guy to deal with, extremely knowledgeable, and he'll make sure everything is working now and in the future. He is direct and to-the-point when you talk to him, but I wouldn't hesitate to work with him again. Let me know if you have any other questions. The fuel lines are polished stainless. He'll bend them any way you can dream up, if you decide to have him make them for you. In case anyone was interested, I posted the link to Ted's article in my previous post. It's here if you don't see it. Modifying the Holley 94
The Center Carb on mine does not have the Spark Control Valve in the Throttle Body. Carb is stamped "Ford" on One Side of Float Bowl but Blank on the other Side. The 2 End Carbs are identified as "59". What do I need to do to Center Carb to make it Ported Vacuum? There is a Plug in the upper Carb Body as shown in Teds Article. What model 94 is the Center Carb with no ID on it?.
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By NY59F100 - 4 Years Ago
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oldcarmark,
I sent you a PM, but I don't know if it went through. I did a quick search and found that the end carbs you have are flathead era, and apparently desirable model Holleys.
In regards to how to set up the center carb for vacuum, I think that you will need a different base. I went and looked at my spares, and they both have the spark valve/economizer. I know that they were definitely Y-block era Holley 94s and are the largest venturi ( 1 1/16").
I put in two links that you might find interesting and informative.
49bomb,
any new progresss?
Holley rebuild article
model 59 Holley
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By oldcarmark - 4 Years Ago
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NY59F100 (1/30/2020)
oldcarmark, I sent you a PM, but I don't know if it went through. I did a quick search and found that the end carbs you have are flathead era, and apparently desirable model Holleys. In regards to how to set up the center carb for vacuum, I think that you will need a different base. I went and looked at my spares, and they both have the spark valve/economizer. I know that they were definitely Y-block era Holley 94s and are the largest venturi ( 1 1/16"). I put in two links that you might find interesting and informative. 49bomb, any new progresss? Holley rebuild articlemodel 59 Holley
I did get your PM and messaged You back Thanks. The Model 59 End Carbs are 46-48 Car. The middle is an 8BA which is 49-53 as far as I can tell. The earlier 46-48 Carbs don't have the Vacuum hookup for Distributor. Started with the 49 Flathead. The Spark Advance Valve started in '54 as shown in my Parts Catalog. I will be changing the Bases on the end Carbs to the Ones You went with.Block off the Power Valves also.
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By '49 bomb! - 4 Years Ago
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Latest updates guys! I made a smoke machine. This is what I came up with, I connected it to my manifold vacuum port. I put tape over the center carburetor so no smoke would escape. Applying smoke, I found smoke coming out of the hole on the carburetor hat.(center carb) It's a hole where the accelerator pump lives. Next, I found smoke coming out of a vent tube on the front carburetor. The rear carburetor showed no evidence of smoke coming from the throttle plates. So what's everyone's thought on why there smoke coming out of these two places? Do I need to plug them up? Remember, I'm trying to chase down a vacuum leak.
Thanks!
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