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By Danny - 5 Years Ago
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bought a US Radiator about 7 years ago. It was a 3 row heavy duty copper, brass type for my 1956 Ford Crown Victoria. About a year ago it developed a signiicant leak at the top core tank seam and was repaired by a local radiator shop. Now it has developed another leak at the upper hose fitting. I paid about $450 for the radiator. I will have it repaired again.
If i have to end up replacing the radiator, what would be the best option for the money? Aluminum or copper/brass? best brand for less than $500.
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By Talkwrench - 5 Years Ago
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Just have it checked and repaired again .. its not that old , but a good radiator place should give you an honest appraisal.
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By cokefirst - 5 Years Ago
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I bought a radiator from US radiator and spoke to their representative when I picked it up. they do both copper/brass and aluminum. I asked the difference. The rep told me that the aluminum models are lighter but are more difficult to repair he also said that copper/brass is superior in heat dissipation. He recommends sticking with the copper/brass.
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By DryLakesRacer - 5 Years Ago
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Danny.. I have the identical radiator to you and it's 6 yrs old. It's never been a problem but the US that was in it when I bought it did exactly the same thing; it was a slightly different model and I wanted more. It too was fixed by a local shop and boxed up as a spare.
What pressure cap do you use? I've stayed with the stock 7 pound but the guy before me had 13/15.
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By Danny - 5 Years Ago
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I had a 13 psi when the first leak occurred. I replaced it with a 7 psi and developed a second leak.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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If originality is important to you, I would stick with the stock type radiator. If not, a modern three row aluminum radiator is a better choice in my opinion. My 1955 Thunderbird had a stock radiator when I bought it. It overheated in the slightest traffic. I replaced the radiator with a $200 Champion aluminum radiator and electric fan. You can not make my TBird overheat even in the heat of a Florida summer. It runs at 180 degrees and stays there. I would never go back.
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By geo56 - 5 Years Ago
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I too bought a US Radiator brass replacement that lasted about a year before it started leaking at the seam at the top tank. I drive my 56 Victoria every day and had put about 7000 miles on it. I had it repaired locally and ran a 7 lb cap instead of the 13. Wasn't long before is began to leak at the top seam in another place and I had it fixed again . Soon after it began to leak again and I decided on advice from a friend who collects 55-56 victorias to try an aluminum replacement from Auto City Classic. What I appreciate is the die stamped upper and lower tanks that gives the original look that looks like the TBird radiators of the time.It fit with no modifications and 2 years later I have no regrets. Price was $229 and much cheaper than the $450+ I spent on US Radiator.
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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geo56 (4/13/2019)
I too bought a US Radiator brass replacement that lasted about a year before it started leaking at the seam at the top tank. I drive my 56 Victoria every day and had put about 7000 miles on it. I had it repaired locally and ran a 7 lb cap instead of the 13. Wasn't long before is began to leak at the top seam in another place and I had it fixed again . Soon after it began to leak again and I decided on advice from a friend who collects 55-56 victorias to try an aluminum replacement from Auto City Classic. What I appreciate is the die stamped upper and lower tanks that gives the original look that looks like the TBird radiators of the time.It fit with no modifications and 2 years later I have no regrets. Price was $229 and much cheaper than the $450+ I spent on US Radiator.
I have One of these also. Nice that the Top Tank looks close to original Appearance. I got a can of Black High Temp Barb B Q Paint and Painted complete Rad. Now it would pass to the Casual Observer as being Original. I know it will not Dissipate Heat as good as it would if left unpainted but I will live with that. Added a 6 Blade Fan and high flow 170 Thermostat. Should be fine.
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By bergmanj - 5 Years Ago
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Oldcarmark,
Actually (from research studies done by General Electric back in the 1960's for use with heat sinks for their Silicon Controlled Rectifiers - to get rid of damaging heat), a painted heat sink [read that "radiator"] dissipates heat much better than plain unpainted metal ["emissivity" for neat, unpolished-but-clean, metal is in the 65% range - doesn't matter what color of unfinished clean metal (though "dull" is much better than "polished" metal - which is why pressure cookers are polished - keeps the heat "in"), whereas painted is in the 95% range - again, no difference between different colors]. Seems counter-intuitive; but, this information is from good research (G.E. SCR Manual 4th edition - C. A. 1960's). Percentages are relative to a "theoretically perfect Black Body" as a 100% reference for ability to radiate heat (ask your friendly local physicist).
Retired now; but, dealt with this "heat dissipation" issue many times over my 45-year career in electrical/electronics work.
Hope this is helpful to more than just you.
Regards, JLB
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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bergmanj (4/14/2019)
Oldcarmark, Actually (from research studies done by General Electric back in the 1960's for use with heat sinks for their Silicon Controlled Rectifiers - to get rid of damaging heat), a painted heat sink [read that "radiator"] dissipates heat much better than plain unpainted metal ["emissivity" for neat, unpolished-but-clean, metal is in the 65% range - doesn't matter what color of unfinished clean metal (though "dull" is much better than "polished" metal - which is why pressure cookers are polished - keeps the heat "in"), whereas painted is in the 95% range - again, no difference between different colors]. Seems counter-intuitive; but, this information is from good research (G.E. SCR Manual 4th edition - C. A. 1960's). Percentages are relative to a "theoretically perfect Black Body" as a 100% reference for ability to radiate heat (ask your friendly local physicist). Retired now; but, dealt with this "heat dissipation" issue many times over my 45-year career in electrical/electronics work. Hope this is helpful to more than just you. Regards, JLB
Interesting Information. I would never have thought painted would dissipate Heat better than Bare Finish. I see quite a few Aluminum Rads in use at the Shows. I guess some don't Paint them thinking the same thing I did. Looks much more Original painted. One thing that my Buddy mentioned is that I should have used Vinegar as a Prep at least on the Top Tank before Painting. The Bar B Q Paint does not require Primer bur treating the Aluminum before Painting is better for Adhesion. I purchased One Rad from Champion for my last 56 and the One I have now from Auto City Classic. Between the 2 the One from Auto City appears to be better Quality and the Top Tank looks more like the Original if Anyone wants an Opinion between the 2. Both purchased on Ebay.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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Is it a specific type of paint that was used in the research or does any paint work?
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By 57RancheroJim - 5 Years Ago
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I'm not sure I agree with this. It may work for electronics but everything I researched about aluminum radiators before I bought one says Not to paint them. For a show car it would be alright but not for a driver.
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By bergmanj - 5 Years Ago
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Charlie,
Any paint is good; oil-based is best: Again, any color. And White is best for reflecting external heat away, whereas black will also absorb external heat best while still dissipating internal heat as well as white. Gloss is best at reflecting external heat, and flat is best at absorbtion of external heat. So: Gloss white is best at radiating heat while rejecting external heat absorbtion; and, flat Black is equally as good at radiating heat; but, worst at rejecting external heat. It should be obvious that all other shades/brightnesses/finishes would fall somewhere in between.
As for "differences" between radiators and electrical/electronics heatsinks, there isn't any: Heat is heat, physics is physics; and, air moving by removes just as well on either for equal exposed surface areas, turbulence, and total air flows: ALL other things being equal, painted metal will do much better (~95% range) versus "plain" metal (~65% range); and, polished metal is by far the worst (again, which is why pressure cookers are polished, for example).
Everybody's very welcome to doubt any free information given here - whether it has good research behind it or not; check out the reference (General Electric SCR Manual, specifically it's 4th edition [5th edition does not have this information]), though, before doubting G. E.'s substantial research.
Simply trying to be helpful; use or don't as you see fit.
Regards, JLB
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By Gene Purser - 5 Years Ago
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I know this is an older thread, but I want to add something about the Auto City radiator. Although I am not an engineer or otherwise an authority on the subject, over the years I have done a good bit of reading on radiators. There are a lot of variables that influence cooling in a radiator. I was looking on ebay at radiators and saw the Auto City radiator for the mid-fifties Fords have two rows of 1 1/8" tubes. This is significant because (1) the heat is taken away from the tubes by the fins. The fins are attached to the flat sides of the tubes. A wider tube has more area of fin attachment than more rows of more narrow tubes. (2) A larger tube flows more than multiple smaller tubes of the same total width.
Griffin Radiator has even wider tubes available. I had a Griffin radiator with the 1 1/4" tubes in my 40 Ford. It ran so cool the electric fan only came on after much slow/stop-start driving. Griffin might cool better than this one, but it cost 3-4 times more.
I am not connected with Auto City, and I don't own one of the radiators, but if I need one they will be the first I check out.
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By 59FE258Y - 5 Years Ago
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My 58 292 runs hot in any kind of warmer weather or traffic. In reading this post, I'm going to go with the Auto City Classic, $200.00, 1957-1959 Ford / Mercury V-8 Aluminum Radiator R5759B. Would you all recommend an electric fan or even ACC's radiator, fan and fan shroud option for $299.00. Thanks for your time and knowledge, I appreciate it.
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By DryLakesRacer - 5 Years Ago
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I bought a US 7 years ago and never had a problem. It's 3 row but not the one with the most fins. I had a trans cooler added to the bottom. I too run a 7 psi cap and leave the coolant 1" down with no recovery tank.
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By Gene Purser - 5 Years Ago
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59FE258Y (6/19/2019)
My 58 292 runs hot in any kind of warmer weather or traffic. In reading this post, I'm going to go with the Auto City Classic, $200.00, 1957-1959 Ford / Mercury V-8 Aluminum Radiator R5759B. Would you all recommend an electric fan or even ACC's radiator, fan and fan shroud option for $299.00. Thanks for your time and knowledge, I appreciate it.
I wrote and asked them the CFM or amps of their fan, it s been a week or so and no reply. It is pretty well understood that a fan should pull 20+ amps on 12v to be really effective. I'm concerned their fan isn't the best, especially at the cost they are offering it with the shroud. I would use a highly rated Spal or a Cooling Component product, both are proven but cost more.
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By 59FE258Y - 5 Years Ago
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Thank you for the information, it's very helpful in making a wise decision. I'm going to check out fan options and I just ordered a 7 psi cap.
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By Gene Purser - 5 Years Ago
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Let us know how it works out for you, feedback is good for everybody.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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I would like to add something to this post as well. When new, my 1955 Bird had a 6 volt electrical system. It had been converted to 12 volts before I purchased it. One of the first modifications I made was to upgrade to a modern aluminum radiator and electric fan. This cured my overheating problems. My car does not overheat sitting in traffic on a hot Florida summer day. I quickly discovered the generator could not keep up with the extra draw from the electric fan. I upgraded by car to an alternator using a kit from Casco and installed a heavy duty 12 volt battery and tray from a 1957 TBird. No more battery problems. If you have a generator and you wish to use an electric fan, sooner or later you will need an alternator.
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By Gene Purser - 5 Years Ago
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Phil, can you tell us the manufacturer and CFM of your electric fan?
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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I don't know. The fan came as a package when I bought my radiator. It's in the car now. The radiator is a Champion. I run my fan continuously. I have a temperature fan controller, but it's so hot in Florida I find it easier to run the fan all the time. My generator was pretty weak and my engine was missing with a Pertronix unit. An alternator and the big battery made a noticeable difference.
A couple of comments about this fan. It makes a little noise, but it's not noticeable inside or outside the car with the hood closed. I also removed the stock fan and shroud. My car has a 4.11 gear and the noise from the other fan was like a windmill. You can actually hear the engine now.
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By 59FE258Y - 5 Years Ago
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I just talked to Auto City Classics about their $299.00 radiator, shroud, fan deal. He said the fan is 2,600 cfm and it pulls about 8 amps. There is a one year warranty. I mentioned the concern about the fans quality at only $99.00 for the fan plus shroud price. He agreed, he said that would be the one thing he would consider upgrading, because the fan is just a generic piece. I hadn't even considered the generator struggling to support the electric fan. Would the electric fan be a necessity with a shroud, aluminum radiator and perhaps a higher draw aftermarket fan? When I decide and install I'll definitely post how it works out. Thanks for all the info.
My first car (1972) was a 352 FE, 4bbl, 59 Galaxy Fairlane 500. For sixteen years I owned a 1958 Edsel Pacer (1982-1998) with the 361 4bbl, FE. Now I have this 58 292 2bbl y block. Every single one of these motors ran/ run hot in any kind of traffic or warm weather. I just wonder what people experienced overheating wise buying these late 50's Ford v8s brand new. Especially in places like Indiana in the dead of summer.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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An electric fan is not a necessity. The radiator does not care how air is pulled across it, be it mechanical or electrical means.
Whenever I finally do make the change, I want to go with dual electric fans. The thinking there is if one fails, at least there is another to get me down the road, assuming the one is enough to keep it cool. At the very least, hopefully it will allow more time to get off the road.
I think 8 amps is almost 1/3 of the current that a stock generator can provide at it's highest output, which it will be far from at idle. So a charging system upgrade will definitely be required. High performance aftermarket fans can draw quite a bit more.
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By paul2748 - 5 Years Ago
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I'm not any type of "fan" on electric fans. My 54 (312) with stock radiator and four blade mechanical fan runs cool even in high temp days (It also has a wide mouth thermostat). One thing that attribute to this is that the fan is within an inch of the radiator.
While the fan is in the stock position on my 56 Bird (also 312) with a four blade fan and wide mouth thermostat I have not experienced any major problem (but it's not as good as the 54)
For my 48 (302) when I first put it together I was experiencing temperature problems (only a 4 blade fan), I put on a pusher fan besides the 4 blade. It helped a little, but still had problems. I was looking at the radiator one day and noticed that the bottom was closer to the fan than the top. I kicked out the bottom a little (not much room to do it very much), took off the electric fan and most of my overheating problems went away.. Then I put in a wide mouth thermostat and now have no problems.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Back in the day, all old cars ran hot in traffic. If you drove an old car, you always carried a bottle of water in the trunk. The majority of the time this was caused by rusty leaking freeze plugs, clogged engine blocks and crappy radiators. Today, traffic is much worse than it was in the sixties. Waiting in line at a car show is asking for trouble. When you're moving at 45 miles and hour, there is plenty of air running through the radiator. Sitting at a light for 10 minutes on a 90 degree day, not so much. You will never get a 60 year old radiator to cool like a modern three row aluminum radiator no matter how many fan blades you use. Electric fans move air when you're sitting still. You won't win a Concours d'Elegance with an aluminum radiator and electric fan. You won't boil over in traffic either.
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By charliemccraney - 10 Months Ago
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bergmanj (4/15/2019)
Charlie, Any paint is good; oil-based is best: Again, any color. And White is best for reflecting external heat away, whereas black will also absorb external heat best while still dissipating internal heat as well as white. Gloss is best at reflecting external heat, and flat is best at absorbtion of external heat. So: Gloss white is best at radiating heat while rejecting external heat absorbtion; and, flat Black is equally as good at radiating heat; but, worst at rejecting external heat. It should be obvious that all other shades/brightnesses/finishes would fall somewhere in between. As for "differences" between radiators and electrical/electronics heatsinks, there isn't any: Heat is heat, physics is physics; and, air moving by removes just as well on either for equal exposed surface areas, turbulence, and total air flows: ALL other things being equal, painted metal will do much better (~95% range) versus "plain" metal (~65% range); and, polished metal is by far the worst (again, which is why pressure cookers are polished, for example). Everybody's very welcome to doubt any free information given here - whether it has good research behind it or not; check out the reference (General Electric SCR Manual, specifically it's 4th edition [5th edition does not have this information]), though, before doubting G. E.'s substantial research. Simply trying to be helpful; use or don't as you see fit. Regards, JLB
It took a while but I have acquired a 4th edition SCR Manual.
On p356, it states
"Note that oil paints regardless of color improve surface emissivity to practically an ideal level."
There is a chart providing the emissivity of various surface treatments. Oil paint (any color) is .92 to .96. Air drying enamel (any color), .85 to .91.
Another interesting piece of info on p359
"...air flow becomes turbulent and heat transfer is thereby improved:"
before the start of this quote is details about the calculation of the convection heat transfer coefficient for forced convection, not anything explaining further.
It doesn't go into much detail about these but it is very interesting stuff. I never would have expected an electronics manual to have a chapter on thermal engineering, with some mechanical engineering sprinkled in.
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By 2721955meteor - 6 Months Ago
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the best way to analyze rad efficiency is temp be at least 10 degrees colder at bottom rad tank than the top.any less indicates restricted flow internal of the rad . most users claim no flow out of top rad hose. 99% that means restricted internal flow, it also causes cavitation by the watter pump.. while working for caterpillar dealer we found so called rad shops used sonic vibes to clean internal restrictions, was and is not valid. at 1 time ther was a metal rod used when tanks removed worked ok, but that was expensive
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