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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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First off i have a NOS vacuum advance coming in today, i assume the only testing is to see if they pull a vacuum and hold vacuum correct?
Secondly, how do these lines attach?
Im reading my holley pressure type dist service manual that came in today reprint of the august 1955 issue, it doesnt show vacuum routing nor a diagram of a dual reservoir but it does state there are two vacuum lines one that is ported vacuum that has a passage jhst above the throttle plates and the other goes to the side of the carb for the spark delay valve.
But the brass elbow i got i was informed has the ferrell line goes to the dist and the flared line goes to vacuum for the wiper motor or to the dual diaphragm fuel pump. This would be manifold vacuum.
Is this the correct hookup for this on a 56 with the correct holley 4000 carb?
Want to make sure cause this service manual is implying the dist shouldnt be manifold vacuum but only ported vacuum.
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By Sandbird - 6 Years Ago
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The outer diaphragm goes to the manifold vacuum at the distribution block at the base of the 4000 carb. The inner most diaphragm on the distributor housing gets ported vacuum from the carb at the connection just above the spark control valve. They should hold a vacuum, The diaphragm that uses ported vacuum only requires a few inches to operate. If it's new I would just put it on and check it with a timing light.
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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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Sandbird (12/10/2018)
The outer diaphragm goes to the manifold vacuum at the distribution block at the base of the 4000 carb. The inner most diaphragm on the distributor housing gets ported vacuum from the carb at the connection just above the spark control valve. They should hold a vacuum, The diaphragm that uses ported vacuum only requires a few inches to operate. If it's new I would just put it on and check it with a timing light.
Ah ok whats throwing me for a loop is the manifold vacuum I got home and dug through my digital copies of service manuals the 56 supplemental manual for the holley 4000 is where I see the manifold vacuum goes to the outter most canister which is known as a surge diaphragm and it appears the outter diaphragm has a spring while the larger diaphragm has no spring that explains why it flops in and out so easily with no resistance. Pulling out on the advance arm and putting some light vacuum via mouth to the port it pulls so it looks all good.
Only thing holding me up now is I got my box out from 2 years ago from the parts I bought to put the original stuff back on the car but was put on hold finding the last few hard to find pieces, I found out now my choke control inlet tube is defective or wrong. The bag says inlet tube 1956 with a part number of B6A-9820-A but the tube in the bag has a tapco tag on it that says 56 thunderbird 9820-B and the thing isn't even shaped right. The tube is supposed to be vertical so when you plug it into the elbow on the heat tube its supposed to wrap around the intake and straight up into the bottom of the air horn of the carb. This thing if you hook it up properly would be pointed at the spark delay valve and its heavy steel. I decided to order another one from Larrys this time at a tune of $20, its listed on his site as a p9820-B the -A comes up as a 55 with a different shape so hes not using OEM part numbers which my 56 with 292 would be a 9820-A not a 9820-B.
None the less I hope larry can get me the part before this weekend as I really want to figure out how to get the choke tube that's broke out and figure out how you get the new installed. I look at the new tube it has a raised lip so it looks like you have to work it in through the exhaust port then line it up and tap it back into place till it stops. I need to hit my shop manuals again cause I already looked once and there was nothing in them about replacement of the choke tube.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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"...inlet tube 1956 with a part number of B6A-9820-A but the tube in the bag has a tapco tag on it that says 56 thunderbird 9820-B and the thing isn't even shaped right. The tube is supposed to be vertical so when you plug it into the elbow on the heat tube its supposed to wrap around the intake and straight up into the bottom of the air horn of the carb. This thing if you hook it up properly would be pointed at the spark delay valve and its heavy steel. I decided to order another one from Larrys this time at a tune of $20, its listed on his site as a p9820-B the -A comes up as a 55 with a different shape so hes not using OEM part numbers which my 56 with 292 would be a 9820-A not a 9820-B."
B6A 9820-A is for either the 56 FORD or 56 BIRD. Same system.
They cannot use OEM PN's as they are copyrighted. So it is a crap-shoot unless the vendor has correct knowledge of the system(s).
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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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KULTULZ (12/11/2018)
"...inlet tube 1956 with a part number of B6A-9820-A but the tube in the bag has a tapco tag on it that says 56 thunderbird 9820-B and the thing isn't even shaped right. The tube is supposed to be vertical so when you plug it into the elbow on the heat tube its supposed to wrap around the intake and straight up into the bottom of the air horn of the carb. This thing if you hook it up properly would be pointed at the spark delay valve and its heavy steel. I decided to order another one from Larrys this time at a tune of $20, its listed on his site as a p9820-B the -A comes up as a 55 with a different shape so hes not using OEM part numbers which my 56 with 292 would be a 9820-A not a 9820-B." B6A 9820-A is for either the 56 FORD or 56 BIRD. Same system. They cannot use OEM PN's as they are copyrighted. So it is a crap-shoot unless the vendor has correct knowledge of the system(s).
Yep I figured bird and car were the same as they were the same engine. I don't know wth is going on with this, here is a photo of what my choke inlet tube looks like. The one I ordered from larrys also has a B suffix but the photo shows it will fit to my carb, this looks like it wasn't shaped right or something cause there is no way this would fit into the underside of the carb.
This is the photo Larry has for their b suffix part number version listed as '56 car/bird.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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That looks correct. See the install below -
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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Your first photo of the tube is actually NOS. See the FORD TAG on it?
This is how it goes through the 56 H4000 Air Horn -
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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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KULTULZ (12/11/2018)
That looks correct. See the install below -
So the inlet tube shouldnt be vertical when you hold it like its installed?
Cause one i have now you hold it vertical after all the bends the part that goes into the bottom of the carb hat is at a 45* angle.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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I don't think the 2nd photo above is of a 56 H4000 (wrong year carb). There is no provision for the inlet tube. You see the hole on the 1st photo, right?
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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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KULTULZ (12/11/2018)
That looks correct. See the install below -
Hmm interesting. Looks like it should be more vertical but i guess it might be right. I just figured it fits into the air horn square not at an angle.
Anyways im going to bring my little brass hammer home from work tonight see if i can knock the old heat tube out tonight at least.
Then ill decide how to go about painting the intake. I stripped some off to cast iron but didnt do all paint is too damn thick to strip with a wire brush wheel.
Engine builder i know that bead blasted my aircleaner with glass bead he hasnt been at work the last couple of werks due to his mothers declining health.
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By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago
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When I first got my 56 Bird, the 9820 tube was missing (I didn't even know there was supposed to be one). After seeing one on another 56 Bird, I ordered one from CASCO. It fit perfectly
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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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paul2748 (12/11/2018)
When I first got my 56 Bird, the 9820 tube was missing (I didn't even know there was supposed to be one). After seeing one on another 56 Bird, I ordered one from CASCO. It fit perfectly
I got the heat tube hammered out just 20 minutes ago took half an hour, think maybe the elbow that was broken off in the tube is what hindered me. tube split in two and I had to hammer it out the wrong way and bend it to get the pieces out.
The new Casco heat tube it slipped in only goes in one way it slipped in silky smooth to the shoulder stop. I am assuming when I hammer the brass elbows in it flares the tube out and creates the seal to the intake manifold.
Only thing I am wary of is how to attach the tubes to the elbows cause you don't naturally want to hammer on tubes for fear of warping them or bending them.
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By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago
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The elbows should fit into the tube easily, at least mine did (tube from CASCO). As far as the the tubes that go into the fittings (elbows) they should fit without having to bang anything (again, that is my experience, with aftermarket parts even). Regarding the choke tube, first put in the elbow in the intake - I have found that the tube for the automatic choke should first be put on the choke but loosely. Then as the carb is lowered onto the intake line up the tube to the elbow.
On the other side, put the tube on the elbow and as you are lowering the carb line the tube up with the opening. There is a rubber o-ring that goes on the carb.
Test fit the tubes into the elbows and the elbows into the manifold tube for a trial fit while everything is readily accessible. In my experience, everything should go into each other without any real force.
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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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paul2748 (12/12/2018)
The elbows should fit into the tube easily, at least mine did (tube from CASCO). As far as the the tubes that go into the fittings (elbows) they should fit without having to bang anything (again, that is my experience, with aftermarket parts even). Regarding the choke tube, first put in the elbow in the intake - I have found that the tube for the automatic choke should first be put on the choke but loosely. Then as the carb is lowered onto the intake line up the tube to the elbow. On the other side, put the tube on the elbow and as you are lowering the carb line the tube up with the opening. There is a rubber o-ring that goes on the carb. Test fit the tubes into the elbows and the elbows into the manifold tube for a trial fit while everything is readily accessible. In my experience, everything should go into each other without any real force.
What about the heat tube itself? I was able to press it in with finger pressure all the way to the seat. What seals that to prevent an exhaust leak around the tube? that's what I am curious about if the elbow will flare the heat tube out to make it fit snugly.
That's good to know about the inlet and outlet tubes so they just press in by hand and don't have to be forced.
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By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago
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I had to replace the tube in the intake, but I don't remember how tight it fit.
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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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paul2748 (12/13/2018)
I had to replace the tube in the intake, but I don't remember how tight it fit.
Ah ok just wondering cause the old one I had to really hammer it out but I haven't tried to fit the elbows yet want to first clean the intake up with carb cleaner then do my dry fit assembly before I brush paint the manifold. Im hoping that the elbow will open up the heat tube some to create a seal. Otherwise I am afraid there will be an exhaust leak from how easily it slipped in with finger pressure. Unless that's how its supposed to be and it wont leak with it like that. I don't know.
I also got my new inlet tube from Larrys, its a Tasco just like the one I got 2 years ago from Macs, this one how ever is bent correctly to where it will fit into my carb and sit on the manifold. This one is also a bit taller on the second bend compared to the one I had. Don't know if it was a error or something that slipped through quality control from tasco but I now have everything I need to do this. Going to do it this weekend. Will assemble my intake tomorrow after work so I can brush paint it ford engine red and let it dry over night then Saturday I will drain my coolant pull the intake off and install all my new stuff. I just hope I can do everything at once if not I might have to play with the choke sunday cause my main goal is to adjust the timing to 12* initial if the engine can handle it then set the idle mixture.
only worry I have is on my dual action fuel pump I am a bit worried that the vacuum hook up wont be correct. Currently the inner most tube is set to manifold vacuum as the outter most tube has suction with the engine running. If its not right well then I might have to just break down and buy another fuel pump as I must have rebuilt this one wrong then.
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