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By MIT3 - 6 Years Ago
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The restauration of my 1955 F100 239 Y block is now to 99% completed. I tried to keep al original, 6V system, engine, nearly everthing. Actually I have problems with startin rotaion. The rotations are so slow that the engine do not starts. I us a new 98Ah 6V battery, new cables. First I thought the old starter is not working well, so I fixed today a new one. Unfortunately the same low rotation like the old starter does. I installed a cable from battery + to the starter, noanges.
The battery fall at starting down to 4V. So I think the new battery is bad or the secound reason could be: (and this is my question)
I reused the 272 (ECG) block and 239 (EBV) heads. Could it be, that the higher compression and the bigger pistin rings have to many turning torque? (new Pistion rings and valve springs)
Best regards
Harald
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 6 Years Ago
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You said you have new cables, but are they the #1 AWG size cables required for 6 volt systems, or they common replacement #6 AWG commonly used on 12 volt cars and readily available in local parts stores? The #6 cables are too small for six volt starting systems. Too much voltage drop.
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By MIT3 - 6 Years Ago
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Self made harness with the correct stock diameter.
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By tomfiii - 6 Years Ago
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Do the cables or starter get hot?
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By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago
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Is this the first time trying to start a new rebuilt engine?
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By 2721955meteor - 6 Years Ago
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if this is the first start,mix a bit of oil in ajar with gas,1part oil 3parts gas,should make it easier to spin .be sure you are Not using a deep sycle battery. good battery fully charged ,correct cables,correct 6volt starter should spin and start . while back had a 55 bird 6volt worked well even on new rebuild.6volt starter looks the same as a 12volt but is different inside
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By NoShortcuts - 6 Years Ago
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MIT3. In your initial posting, in the last sentence of the first paragraph, you said . . .
Unfortunately the same low rotation like the old starter does. I installed a cable from battery + to the starter, noanges.
With a Ford 6 volt set-up, isn't the chassis hooked-up as positive ground? You indicated that you installed a cable from the battery + to the starter.
That said, I don't understand what you meant by 'noanges'.
Not much experience with 6 volt systems, but that jumped out at me . . .
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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This should help- https://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/ic120434.htm
You have to adjust for a 6V System (Shop Manual)
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By MoonShadow - 6 Years Ago
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6volt is positive ground. Also make sure your ground connections are clean to bare metal under them. Paint is a insulator.
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By kevink1955 - 6 Years Ago
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He may be saying that he ran a cable from + (really ground in a pos ground system) to the starter mounting bolt.
With the starter already replaced but not confirmed that it is the proper 6V starter and not a 12 V look alike, I would be looking for hot cables and connections.
If no hot spots are found suspect the battery
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By MIT3 - 6 Years Ago
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Sorry my late answer, this is the Time different to Europe.
No hot Cables or starter
The cable from Battery + to starter means to be clear of the starter Solid.
The engine is Running. By towing the car at 3 Gear the engine Starts rush
I Think the Force needed turning the engine by hand is ok. Nearly 60 nm with sparks.
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By MoonShadow - 6 Years Ago
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Does it stay running after you pull start it? If a new rebuild you should run it at about 2000rpm for 20 minutes or so. Then shut it off and try the starter.
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By MIT3 - 6 Years Ago
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Yes it runs about half an hour with a breake in additive from Lucas.
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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This post brings up a question from me. My 55 TBird was a 6 volt car from the factory. It was switch over to 12 volts sometime in the past. When I rebuilt my engine I had the starter and generator rebuilt by a local. He knows what he is doing. He told me my starter is 6 volt. It worked perfectly in my car. He told me my starter would work fine, but I should use 12 volt cables to increase the voltage drop to the starter. I never noticed any of the cables heating up and the 6 volt starter worked well. Anything I should be aware of?
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By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago
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Thats a good question Phil. I don't know what effect using the larger cables has. But I ran a 6V starter in a 12V system with the smaller 12V cables for years without any issue.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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"He told me my starter is 6 volt. It worked perfectly in my car. He told me my starter would work fine, but I should use 12 volt cables to increase the voltage drop to the starter."
... hmmpf ...
Now that is a good idea. Will prevent the 6V starter from drawing too much juice.
RELATED ARTICLE - https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/6to12.php
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By Ted - 6 Years Ago
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I’ll suggest using an induction amp gauge on the starter cable while trying to start the engine. I suspect you’ll see a higher than required number indicating either a starter, connection, or cable sizing issue.
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By MIT3 - 6 Years Ago
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Today i found out, by restarting the hot engine, the starter Turns slowlier as at cold engine.
Somebody know how many Watt the original long shaft starter should have?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 6 Years Ago
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Mixing and matching 6V starters, 12V systems and sizing cables to be dropping resistors to limit current would make the book specs meaningless. I would think if you need to know the watt value, an induction amp meter as suggested above and an analog volt meter at the starter terminal while cranking should give the values to multiply for watts. I think typically a 12V starter is said to pull 155-190 amps while cranking in my 64 manual. For watts, would it be 12V X 190A? Or, I believe, it would it be 190A X the actual reduced cranking voltage at the starter. I guess if 6V starters are performing successfully in 12V systems using the smaller gauge 12V cables (as dripping resistors) then so be it. Indeed we learn something every day. Usually, using the cable to limit current will produce heat. Evidently it isn't much from what was posted above. That being said, why not simply use the proper 12V starter after converting the electrical system to 12V? That would eliminate all the fudging and guessing to make a 6V starter function properly by not drawing excessive current in a 12V system. In that case,if you left the heavier 6V cables in place with the 12V starter, so much the better, less voltage drop and less heat. I have in the past, started 6V cars with 12V and it cranked very fast but I think at the expense of higher ampere draw. I have noticed quite a few Y-block starters on e-pay lately - (not mine). Just my $.02, JEFF.................
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By Lou - 6 Years Ago
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MIT3 ...I think who ever rebuilt the your "new" starter used 12 volt parts.You seem to have done everything right so the only thing left is the "new" starter is not properly rebuilt.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 6 Years Ago
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MIT3, you said the voltage dropped to 4 volts when cranking. Did you measure this at the battery or the starter? My Sun battery tester says that a 6 volt battery should maintain 5 volts at 3 times its Amphour rating. Your battery should maintain 5 volts at almost 300 amps load. If you read 4 volts at the starter and 5 volts at the battery, the battery is good and the cables/starter are the problem. I noticed you have an F100. If I remember correctly, the battery is under the passenger floorboard and the ground cable is bolted to the frame. Do you have another large ground cable connected to the frame and the engine? If not, that could be a problem. If while cranking you maintain 4 volts at the battery, it is not up to snuff.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 6 Years Ago
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My apologies, I thought MIT3 had a 12V conversion trying to run a 6V starter.
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By MIT3 - 6 Years Ago
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Hey guys i did not tyred to change at 12v. All is restored like original.
Next few Days i am out off Business. Next monday i will net sou know more. I will meassure the amps by starting.
My new battery have 98Ah with i Think 810A this means at -14C by starting 30 Sec. under using 810A the battery should not fall under 4,5 Volt. This starter should have may 1,4 kw also 240Amps at starting. I have to meassure the amps, but i Think my new Battery is crab .
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By MIT3 - 6 Years Ago
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After a long time trying, i have actually a useable Crank speed. Changed cables to 00 (2/0), using a 112amps battery and the old starter.
But i have unfortunately still starting troubles at hot engine. I tried a little bit to turn the ignition. At 10° after the engine starts when hot. Its only for testing, it isnt driveable.
Could it be, that the coil loose power when its hot?
Coil is new, for 6 Volt, some liquide is in and i cant meassure some diffrent between hot or cold.
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By 55 GLASS TOP - 6 Years Ago
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Hello In my 1955 Crown Victoria I use the 6 Volt Red Top Optima battery it is 800 cold Cranking Amps and 1000 Cranking Amps. I have the battery about 5 years, and have always had it on a battery tender. It cranks the engine fine.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 6 Years Ago
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MIT3
OK. You have 6 volt system. The cables are the right size. The battery is big enough. The engine turns over ( not stuck) and IT WILL START
using the starter but ONLY WITH THE TIMING SET at 10 degrees ATDC.
YOUR SYSTEM IS CORRECT. You have a timing issue. When hot there is more electrical resistance
AND MECHANICAL resistance From ENGINE parts expanding
With the "book timing set" the engine fires the sparkplug TOO SOON as the piston is compressing the fuel/air mixture
It could be in your distributor ( I am not familiar with Load O Matic a frozen plate that hold the points ?) or the vacuum from the
carburetor to the Load O Matic?
I do not think your current problem is ELECTRICAL. Good looking Truck Good luck Pete
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