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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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A preliminary pic of my new John Beck built 304ci y-block. It will go on the dyno in a couple weeks. I will post the sheet when it happens. 312 sleeved to stock 292 bore. (Not sure why, I bought it that way) 312 crank and rods. 292s clay smith cam. Probe (mummert) 10.5-1 pistons. Mummert intake, rocker shafts, lifters, push rods. Edelbrock 600-650? Gonna try both. Also going to try a couple different spacers. Rebuilt 57 dizzy pertronix II + coil. Will have high torque starter soon as I decide which one. (Some help here perhaps?). Rex Performance 4 into1 headers.
Anyway, if I can figure out how I'll post a video of the run-in. Definantly pics of the completed motor.
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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I like the color. It's different.
With that cam, a carb bigger than 650 may actually be ok. If work has been done to the heads, in addition, then bigger will probably be required to get the most out of it.
RE spacers, if you have the money, Hamburgers performance make a tapered dual plan spacer that might work well. If it is a race engine, try some of the HVH or Wilson Manifolds or similar tapered spacers. For a tighter budget, the simple open, 4-hole, and divided spacers can help a lot and you can stack them in various combinations. If you can fit it under the hood, 2" - 3" or more of spacers may help.
I've been using the starter from http://autoelec.com/html/y_block_ford_gear_reduction_starter.html It's been installed for probably 15 years, in a year round daily driver.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks Charlie, not really a race engine just built it with the parts that came with it. I may have told the story before but it was originally going in a 56 PU. Street/race engine. Fella had life get in the way and had to sell the package deal. Yes sir, the heads, G, have been mildly ported, hardened seats, stainless valves, 115lb springs shimmed to ?lbs. rockers have all been rebuilt and rebushed. Honestly, I am a novice at this and don't know all that has been done. I will of course have a complete build sheet with all the specs after completion. Interesting comment about the carb. He has a veriety of carbs on hand and I am sure we will find a good combo of carb and spacers.600-650 is a starting point. Trying to find a happy medium. Neither he nor I really have any idea what it will make. He built what he said was a much milder Y a few years ago that made 295hp. I will be satisfied with 304. Don't want to get any unrealistic hopes up for much more. This car will be drivin. A lot. Every day. Hard. Like I stole it. My retirement toy/project. I want to smell burnt rubber every time I fire it up. I am quite sure I will break a few things. Just as I am sure it will never be "done". Getting to a point of rambling. Sorry just very excited! Have been looking forward to building this car for a looooong time.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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For some reason your link cannot be found on my I phone. Do you have any other contact info for them? Thanks.
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By PF Arcand - 7 Years Ago
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For an aftermarket starter, check with Mummert. They advertised one some time ago that looked better than one or two I've seen.. And you say it's not a race engine.. That 292 degree advertised cam from Mummert, won't have any Granny's idle.
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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I fixed the link.
If it is a street engine that will be driven daily, then you seriously need to rethink that cam and the compression ratio. It starts to work around 2800rpm, so you will need a really short rear gear just to have it operating in it's power band. Mileage will be terrible and it will probably require race gas which is very expensive for a daily driver and, unless you happen to live near a race track, you won't be able to fill it up when needed. Big hassle running a cam and compression like that on the street.
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By LordMrFord - 7 Years Ago
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Stock converter is quite bad choice for that cam if automatic.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Charlie, as I said, this is being built with the parts that came with the package deal. I will have to wait and see what John comes up with for a combo. Worse case, I will end up changing the cam out. I would like to change out the rear gear but a swap to a 9" will have to wait a while longer. If anyone has a 3:89 ring and pinion for a 55 I would be interested. LordMrFord. It has a T5 with all mummert 11" clutch components including a new fly wheel. As I said before, I fully expect to break something sooner or later.
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By Ted - 7 Years Ago
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Be forewarned that the original rear differential ring and pinions in the ’56 and earlier Fords do not hold up well to hard performance driving. If planning on hard launches and fast shifts, a 9” rear will be in your future.
Assuming the engine has an actual static compression ratio (SCR) of 10.5:1, then a camshaft with an advertised intake duration of 292° (figured at 0.020” lobe lift), ground on 108° lobe centers, and installed with 4° of advance will be right at 8.0:1 dynamic compression ratio. This will require a regular diet of 91-93 octane fuel but will not be happy with a stock converter in an automatic tranny. Going with any camshaft smaller than this without modifying the static compression ratio will cause the DCR to go higher which in turn will make the engine intolerant of 93 or lower octane fuel.
Here’s some math for the SCR and DCR numbers.
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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From the first post, I understood that it is already together. If that is not the case, then I'm sure John will suggest a more appropriate configuration for street use.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Ted, what do you think of our California 91 octane fuel? Will a octane booster improve my chances of keeping this engine happy? If it turns out to be a weekend play toy I can live with that. As long as I smoke the tires whenever I get to enjoy a ride. I will ask a few more questions when I see John next.
I know a 9" is in my future but it's not in the budget at this time. Rolling burn-outs are the plan till that happens. Thanks for ALL the input I am getting. All advice and helps are appreciated.
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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The flashy bottles of octane booster tend to be misleading. They often say something like increases octane 10 points! So you think your 91 octane is now 101 octane. Not even close. Read the back and it will say that 1 point = .1 octane number, so 10 points is only 1 octane number increase and you now have only 92 octane. If the engine is already unhappy, that probably won't be enough. I think there are some that can genuinely increase it by 5 or 10 numbers so just make sure you read the bottle and understand what it means.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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It is together Charlie, waiting on a new vac adv for the distributor and a few more minor external parts. Otherwise, ready to go. I will just have to wait and see at this point. You will ALL be kept in the loop as I do respect the opinions I receive here. I am looking forward to comments after the dyno run. Till then .........
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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Rowen (11/8/2017)
Interesting comment about the carb. He has a variety of carbs on hand and I am sure we will find a good combo of carb and spacers.600-650 is a starting point. Trying to find a happy medium. Don't want to get any unrealistic hopes up for much more. This car will be driven. A lot. Every day. Hard. Like I stole it. My retirement toy/project. I want to smell burnt rubber every time I fire it up. I am quite sure I will break a few things. Just as I am sure it will never be "done". Getting to a point of rambling. Sorry just very excited! Have been looking forward to building this car for a looooong time.
Rowen. Dynometers can be helpful in sorting-out your engine, but may leave a fair amount of vehicle drive-ability 'things' to deal with as you put your Crown Vic on the road. I'm sure that the T-5 will greatly increase your driving pleasure. Rear end gearing and tire size coupled with your engine's low speed performance (low speed torque, engine vacuum, and throttle response) all complicate what will work GooD.
The sorting-out and dialing-in of your vehicles variables can be elusive, time consuming, and frustrating. Detroit (the o-l-d days) spent a lot of time determining jet sizes, distributor advance curves, transmission gearing, rear-end gearing, and tire sizes (to mention but a few items) dependent upon vehicle weight and engine size. Again, the previous list is not exhaustive in identifying variables. Even if it was, geographic altitude can affect many of engine performance variables, too.
In looking at your choice of 4 barrel carburetors on hand, consider looking at the primary throttle bore and primary booster venturi sizes. For stop-and-go low speed street driving, carburetors with smaller primary throttle plates and booster venturi-s should help IF you're using a camshaft with more valve overlap and a lower LCA number. The opening of the secondary throttle plates can be 'tuned' using different value springs in the vacuum controlled diaphragm so the flow capability of the carb is not critical as long as you have adequate size.
Many early Mustang owners with 289 engines find that the Autolite 4100 carbs with the 1.08 venturis perform better on the street than the 1.22 venturis units.
Best Wishes! 
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Wow Charlie, Soooooo much information coming thru!! Being a carpenter and NOT a "mechanic" (shade tree at best) I can see I will have a serious learning curve with this project.i have already learned a lot just by starting the process. It will all start with the engine being in the car. At this time I am going thru the process of re-wiring from the dash forward (rear is in great shape) and converting to 12v. Lots to do before it actually hits the road. Once in the car and running I am sure I will send a few more $'s at John to get the optimum tune. Thanks so very much to you and all who have offered your sage advice. I will try and take as much in as my old brain can handle and put it to what I hope will be good use.
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By Lord Gaga - 7 Years Ago
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That's a beautiful car, Rowen.
Great color combination, perfect stance and above all; the black walls on black wheels with the factory hub caps really look great. Don't change a thing on the outside!!
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By Ted - 7 Years Ago
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Rowen (11/8/2017)
Ted, what do you think of our California 91 octane fuel?....
Not all United States 91 octane fuel is equal and that is simply due how the octane value is calculated. To calculate the 91 octane number, the Research Octane Numbers (RON) and Motor Octane Numbers (MON) must be known. The advertised octane is then the result of the average of the RON and MON numbers. It’s because these numbers vary that the quality of the gasoline varies even though the octane ratings may be the same. Gasoline from two different sides of the street can be significantly different even though they have the same octane ratings.
And then there’s the ethanol content as the amount of ethanol that’s present must also be taken into account. The BTU amount of ethanol is considerably less than that of gasoline and as a result ethanol runs leaner when simply substituting ethanol laden fuel in place of what was 100% gasoline. The carburetor jetting and/or fuel mixture must be increased accordingly in which to compensate.
Performing an ethanol check is reasonably straight forward and takes only a minute to do with a minimum of testing materials. I do that on a regular basis on fuels run on the dyno here at this shop simply to confirm the ethanol amount and insure the engines are tuned for the gasoline that’s readily available. As a general rule, the premium fuel in my area has no more than 5% ethanol and on occasion still find gasoline with less than this. The lower grades of fuel do max out the ethanol content at the advertised 10% amount.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted, this process will be frustrating, laborious, and many other adjatiaves I cannot think of right now I am sure. However the process will also be fun, exilerating, and rewarding as well. I am in no hurry and have time to get it "right".
Lord Gaga, thank you very much! I happen to agree with you and have NO intention of a color change. Those are stock colors and actually a little rare. The paint job is 35-40 years old and pretty darn good shape as is the interior as it was done at the same time. I love the cars look just want a hot rod for a retirement toy. And it will ALWAYS have a Y-block under the hood. No one will get this car till I croak.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Hi again guys, just got a call from John @ Vintage Hot Rod Design and the engine goes on the dyno tomorrow. He fired it and broke in the cam, lifters, etc today and set the lash. He says he's very happy with it. tomorrow will tell the video tale. So if I can't get it to post here I'll get one of my kids/grand kids to help me post to U Tube. Wish me luck.......
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By Rono - 7 Years Ago
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COOL! Looking forward to it!
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By Kahuna - 7 Years Ago
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Hi Rowen
Best of luck with the car & engine.
John Beck really knows his stuff.
The compression appears a bit high to me,
but I wouldn't worry about the cam at all.
I'm sure you'll be happy with the result.
Are you going to try the dual quads too?
Best
Jim
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Just got back from Johns shop. I am still trying to figure out if I can post a video somewhere. Here are the final results:
304 CI, 303.6 HP, 329.1 TQ, 91 octane California pump gas. dyno sheet attached. Let me know what you think....
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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A few more pics of completed engine.
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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Congratulations, that’s a good looking motor and good looking numbers. Should be a real pleasure to drive when the tuning is finished (if needed) in the car.
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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Almost 1hp / ci is great.
Were any other carbs or spacers tried?
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Charlie, We did try a 2" spacer and it didn't like it much. The low end, which is where I will spend most of my time, went away rather significantly. As much as 10+hp and up to 35tq. I am very happy with the #s so we stopped. Not to mention dyno time ain't cheap. I think it will be a fun ride. Miker, thanks, I think it's kinda pretty myself. Yup, some street tuning in sure will be in order and I am hoping for a smooth dial in. Jim, not right now as I want to get the car up and running and get the bugs worked out of all the other things yet to dial in, drive line, brakes, elec, seats,..etc..etc. after she is road worthy and all the extraneous things are right then I will maybe start playing with it. Here's the sheet with the spacer...
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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I would expect the HVH spacer to hurt low end in most cases. What you did with that is make a great dual plane manifold into a mediocre single plane. Try a 4 hole or divided spacer, something that preserves dual plan functionality, and I bet your numbers will pick up. I think there is more in it with tuning.
I also see that the mixture was leaner at the lower end of the test range with the spacer. So the loss probably isn't as great as it seems, with additional tuning.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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The spacer was a 4 hole (tapered). There may well be more, perhaps much more, time and budget dictated the stopping point. I'm happy with it and the budget didn't take any extra cost hits. More tuning will be needed once in the car and the dyno was more for break-in and fun for me. This whole process has been and continues to be a gas! I'm having a ball!! Next pics will be of the install. Stay tuned.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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My son got the video posted on U Tube
"Loves Y Block"
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Love's Y-Block
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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The HVH is not 4-hole. I understand that it does have 4 holes on the top but it is effectively an open spacer. It is better than a basic or typical open spacer but it is open, nonetheless. The 4-hole spacers are cheap, so definitely give them a try once in the car. You probably will feel a difference.
Here's the vid
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks for linking that Charlie.
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By PF Arcand - 7 Years Ago
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Rowen: In your general description of the engine, there was no mention of block milling/decking or milling of the "G" heads? If that wasn't done, it's possible your compression is lower than the piston description indicates. If that is the case, a change to a milder Cam might be a good idea? Any change should be done now as it's not easy on a Y-block.. Just thoughts to kick around ?
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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The block had been decked prior to me purchasing it. John did check the deck height before doing any assembly. Not sure if I should post these next couple of pics or not. Let me say that I am COMPLETELY satisfied with the results achieved by John with the parts I supplied him for that ol iron headed Y-block. I wanted a streetable pump gas
motor and that is what has been delivered. Within a few tenths of 1 hp per cube was my goal and as far as I am concerned, achieved. So, having said that here is a list of labor and parts:
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By Kahuna - 7 Years Ago
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Rowen
I think you've done real well with numbers from a very honest Dyno.
I can't wait to see the car when finished. Best
Jim
Happy Thanksgiving
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By Kahuna - 7 Years Ago
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Forgot to ask
What manifold are you using now?
Thanks
Jim
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Jim, I broke down and bought John Mummert's dual plane. The numbers it makes are just un-matchable with any other I looked at.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Merry Christmas to you gents!! Got the engine in over the weekend. Couple minor issues fitting those headers but got em in. Haven't fired it yet but boy howdy in my humble opinion, it looks perfectly at home! Drive lines have been sent out. This weekend I finish up the disk brakes and plumb the fuel lines. Jus a little closer...........
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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I like the color scheme.
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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Great numbers and a great look. You’re going to love that ride.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks guys! Yup Charlie, don't think anyone will quite expect that when I open the hood!!
Miker, that's the plan my friend, to love it n drive th wheels off it!!
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Anyone ever use a "pusher" fan on a 55? Does anyone have a part number? There are far to many to sort through on the internet. Thanks for any help
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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The electric fan for primary cooling, or just when stopped?
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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Primary. Thermostatically controlled.
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By MoonShadow - 7 Years Ago
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I have a universal Hayden 14" fan on my Vicky. Stays plenty cool even on the highway with the blower. They come reversible so they can push or pull and a nice fan control unit. Only problem I had was the instructions say they are shipped from the factory as pushers. I mounted mine on the front of the radiator and soon discovered it was set as a puller. Parts store had a mounting kit available so I just needed to cut the mounts and reverse the blade. Now all is fine. So if you buy a Hayden before the final mounting make sure which direction it blowing in. You can find Hayden's at a reasonable price if you search or your local parts store.
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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I’m glad Moonshadow has a proven solution, because I had mixed results with pushers on the ‘bird. Getting the air out from under the hood is a problem when stopped on those cars, and adding a Paxton and headers didn’t help any.
If you haven’t bought a controller yet, I really liked the Flex A Lite variable and adjustable one. There’s a variety of options from radiator probe to separate temp sender, wiring, etc. Takes the place of a relay, also. Mine was hid under a finned cover for a voltage regulator.
They’re local to me, and my first one failed. I drove down to buy another one, and they took it, said “oh, we had a problem with the circuit board on some of those. “. Handed me a new one, years out of warranty, and apologized for my inconvenience. Pretty good service.
That whole set up is still running as a pusher on my buddy’s Nomad, only comes on stuck in traffic. So you might have a look.
https://www.flex-a-lite.com/accessories/electric-fan-controllers.html
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By Rono - 7 Years Ago
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Charlie;
Just curious; I assume you didn't have room for the puller fan with the blower pulley on the crank?
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By MoonShadow - 7 Years Ago
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The cog belt setup wouldn't allow the fan blade to clear. It needed a long extension to clear the belt and put it too close to the radiator. I've change it to a 2V belt setup now using aluminum add on pulleys. I could do a fan now with the added 2" or so clearance.
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