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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Ijust installed a Ford Alternator which uses the external Regulator as used from 65-75 approx. It is wired correctly. The wire for the Idiot Light is on the "I" Terminal of the Regulator. Not charging. Is that wire supposed to be hooked into the 'A" Terminal on the Regulator to make a complete Circiut for the Light and get the Alternator charging? Anyone done this with the Alternator I am using. When the Generator was used the Wire for Light was on the "A" Terminal. I am using a 1G Ford Alternator. Using the original Wiring the "B" Terminal on Alt. goes to "A" Terminal on Reg. "F" goes to "F". "I" takes the wire to Light on Dash. Stator on Alt gets a new Wire to "S" on Regulator. I have 2 Wires that were on the "B" Terminal on original Regulator. The large Gauge Yellow goes to the to Solenoid to charge Battery.Small One not sure where it ends up. Those 2 Wires are where I am having trouble. Right now they are hooked in"A" Terminal on Reg. along with the "B" Wire from Alternator. Not charging. I found one Diagram online that shows those 2 Wire on the "S' terminal on Regulator. Anyone know for sure where they are supposed to go when converting to Alternator. I am NOT using a 1 Wire Alternator because when researching before I did this they are not recommended by quite a few People. Easy to install but not as good as a 1G 2G or 3G Alternator.
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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Wish I could help and I'm surprised no one has answered. Every alternator I've had (and it's not every one in the world) would charge if the rpm went up to 2500 or so. The idiot light normally provides the "exciter' to get it going. I'm one of those that doesn't like one wires either. If no one answers, try over at the Ford Barn. It's a nice group of people, great knowledge, and doesn't flame people for fun.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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Greetings to all: I have installed a Ford G1 alternator in place of the generator on my 64 F100 and it works excellent. The beauty of the 3 wire system as opposed to the 1 wire is the voltage sampling is at the battery rather than at the alternator. This provides for very stable bus voltage. I read your description several times and from that will try to help with this if I can. You are correct in that the idiot light wire will now be removed from the "A" term. of the gen. reg. to the "I" term. of the alt. reg.. "F" to "F" and "S" to "S" is as you stated. "A" of the alt. reg. should go to the battery side of the starter relay.- Should be a small wire and this will be what excites the alternator and is the voltage sensing source. Now, we need to get the alternator output to the battery to charge it and/or keep up with the vehicle electrical loads. You mentioned 2 wires on the "B" term. of the gen. regulator. The heavy wire, should be a #10 yellow, goes to the batt. side of the starter relay. This wire should now go to the "B" terminal - the large stud on the alternator. The other small wire that was on the "B" term. of the gen. regulator should also go to the batt. side of the starter relay. This smaller wire is, I think, a feed to the B term. of the ignition switch and/or possibly other accessories. Hope this will help as I'm not too good at explaining things in text...........JEFF
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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FORD DEARBORN (8/15/2017)
Greetings to all: I have installed a Ford G1 alternator in place of the generator on my 64 F100 and it works excellent. The beauty of the 3 wire system as opposed to the 1 wire is the voltage sampling is at the battery rather than at the alternator. This provides for very stable bus voltage. I read your description several times and from that will try to help with this if I can. You are correct in that the idiot light wire will now be removed from the "A" term. of the gen. reg. to the "I" term. of the alt. reg.. "F" to "F" and "S" to "S" is as you stated. "A" of the alt. reg. should go to the battery side of the starter relay.- Should be a small wire and this will be what excites the alternator and is the voltage sensing source. Now, we need to get the alternator output to the battery to charge it and/or keep up with the vehicle electrical loads. You mentioned 2 wires on the "B" term. of the gen. regulator. The heavy wire, should be a #10 yellow, goes to the batt. side of the starter relay. This wire should now go to the "B" terminal - the large stud on the alternator. The other small wire that was on the "B" term. of the gen. regulator should also go to the batt. side of the starter relay. This smaller wire is, I think, a feed to the B term. of the ignition switch and/or possibly other accessories. Hope this will help as I'm not too good at explaining things in text...........JEFF
Thank You Jeff. That's the Information I am looking for. I will get back into the Wiring Tues. AM. I think this will get it working.Let U know what happens. Just re-reading your Post. To get power from the "B" Terminal on Alt which has the 10 Gauge Yellow Wire going to Regulator to the Battery side of Solenoid which has a large 10 Gauge Yellow Wire now (off the "B" Terminal of the Generator Regulator), I should be joining the 2 10 Gauge Wires together to make one Connection from "B" on Alt to Battery Side of Solenoid and should not be on the Regulator at all? That would feed power from "B" Terminal on Alt. to the Battery Post on Solenoid.. Looks like I also need to add a small Gauge Wire from the "A" Terminal of Reg. to the Battery Side of Solenoid as that wire does not exist right now..
If I understand You correctly I need to join 2 Heavy Yellow Wires together and ad a small Wire from Regulator A Terminal to the Solenoid?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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Greetings I think you have it down. Yes, the heavy gauge wires that were on the "A" and "B" terminals of the gen reg. will now be joined together, effectively connecting the "B" - large stud alt. output to the battery side of the starter relay. As you stated, they will no longer be on the alt. reg.. A small gauge wire will be necessary to connect the "A" term. on the alt. reg. to the batt. side of the starter relay also. I know this sounds redundant but It is this small wire on the "A" term. that is used to excite and for voltage sensing. Hope this helps.............JEFF
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks Jeff. I will be working on this after Noon and hopefully that's the Fix. Would like to go to Cruise Night later Today. That's the great thing about this Forum. Usually Somebody has the Answer to most Questions Posted.
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Still not charging. When I checked between "B" Terminal on Alt and - on Battery with Voltmeter there is no output from Alt. Thats with Wire from "B" Terminal and Battery side of Solenoid off. Any suggestions?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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Greetings to all: This is where it may become difficult trying to troubleshoot through the forum. It may be best to eventually speak to one another by phone, then post results. There are about 3 variations of the Motorcraft regulators out there. What regulator do have? Is it good? Is the alternator good? If an electronic reg. is powered up without being solidly grounded it can be damaged. If I can remember correctly, about around the late 70's into the 80's one regulator was for an idiot light, another was for a charge indicator. A built in rejection feature was designed into the connector to avoid the incorrect application. The latest and last revision under the Motorcraft brand was designed to be used in either application. However, that Motorcraft unit hasn't been made in quite a few years. There is at this time, I believe, one made using the Motorcraft name and part numbers and it's probably a Chinese unit which I have at this time not tried. So, assuming all is hopefully as discussed above, when the ignition is turned on, will the idiot light go on? If so, try disconnecting the stator from the alternator and try it again. Hope this will help, otherwise we may have to speak to one another. I have never been successful at posting pictures on this site because I am not too good with this computer. However, I can e-mail pics and diagrams to that extent...................JEFF
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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The alt. is a new Autolite(Ford) from AC Delco along with a Regulator that has the "I" Terminal. When the Key is on Lite on Dash is on. I also have a Voltmeter mounted under Dash to verify charging. All the Accessories on Dash Gauges etc work with Key on. I will try your suggestion with Stator Wire. I also added a ground wire from Alt to Battery. No change.
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Removed the Stator Wire. No Change. The Regulator is non solid State as shown in Picture, Has the "I" Terminal. Could this Reg. be my Problem? I assume the Alt. is good as its new but that's an Assumption.
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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The Wiring is correct as You explained. The Large 10 Gauge Wire is connected between the "B" Terminal on Alt and Solenoid. I get Battery Voltage at the "B" terminal on the Alternator which means the Wire is spliced together properly. I ran a small Wire from "A" Terminal on Reg. to the Battery side of Solenoid.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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Greetings: Being an electormechanical reg. in itself is not a problem. Is the regulator good? That could be the problem. Does the idiot light illuminate when the ignition key is in the on position?
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Light is on with Key on. I have no way of knowing if the Reg is good or not. Its new but!!! The only way to know if the Alt is good is to take it off and test at Parts Store. Trying to avoid that as I spent quite a bit of Time modifying the Gen. Bracket to work with Alt. Take it apart to get Alt off.
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Jeff, if You are sure that wiring Connections are correct as you listed in previous Post I think I may have to take it off and get it tested at the Parts Store. It is wired as you listed so I don't think Wiring is the Problem. This AC Delco Premium Alt was assembled where else but China so it may be the problem. What do You think?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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OK, light on means there is power to the "I" term., through the reg., out the "F" term. and through the alt. rotating field. At least that's the way it should be. The voltage should be perhaps +/- batt. voltage, minus the drop across the bulb and across/through the field to ground. The voltage at the "I" term. and at the "F" term at this point, (key on engine stopped) should be close to the same. Something s little less than the batt. voltage. If all this is so, then the alt has a field and should begin building voltage at the "B" terminal - it's output.Since it's a mechanical reg., reattach the stator wire. I wish you lived close to me as I would put some or all of this on my test stand and see whats going on and check all the rearranged wiring on the vehicle. Often, another pair of eyes helps. Perhaps double and triple check all wiring. If all else fails, maybe we could exchange info through a PM on this site?
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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I have 12.4 Battery Voltage. 12.4 at "A" Terminal on Regulator. With Key on not running I have very minimal Voltage .31 between F and - on Battery and the same between "I" and - on Battery. The Light is on. With Light off 0 at both Terminals. You can email Me at oldcarmark@hotmail.com if You want to go offline at this Point. Really appreciate your help.I had the cover off the Reg. to check voltage. The "Points" between the "I" Terminal and the "A" Terminal were open as well as the "F" Points. When I start the Car the "I" Points were still open but the "F" appeared to close. Does this help at all?
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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I just did a Test I read online. Disconnected plug from Regulator. Started Car. Jumped the Connection between "A" and "F" and it started charging. Apparently this indicates a Regulator Problem (Defective). Do You concur with that?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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Greetings: I was hesitating to go to the full field test until a few more things were checked. Since you did this, it looks like the alternator is probably good. Now, you stated there was .3 volts on the "I" terminal to ground with the light on. In some cases, it takes more than just the current through the bulb to kick start an alternator. Often, for a mechanical reg. a 15ohm resistor is shunted across the bulb. You may try simply shorting the bulb, that is, place a shunt across the bulb. This should not harm anything. The field relay is the one with an upper and lower contact. With no power on the reg., the spring holds the armature against the upper contact which is the full field position and as voltage builds up and a bit over 13.8 volts, it should begin to vibrate thus limiting the current to the field thus regulating the voltage. The other relay it the field relay and will pick up as voltage builds in the stator. So at this point, try a shunt across the bulb.
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Fixed it. Bought another Electronic Regulator and solved the Problem. Light is off and charging at around 13.5-14.5 .All that aggravation caused by a defective Regulator. Thanks for all the Help. I still needed your input to get the Wiring done correctly.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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Nice work, perfect. Sounds like you have the wiring correct already but the wiring may need to be straightened out with absolute rock solid connections. I might add, there are numerous alternator harnesses available from sources as NPD for the 65 and up mustangs that will match very close to what we need and look factory correct. Now that you know what all the connection requirements are, you should be able to select one that will work for you with little modification. That's what I did to finalize the alternator install in my 64 F100. And whats more, you will have a better, more stable system with this fantastic 3 wire alternator. Now, not to steer this thread, I may seek your advice regarding posting pics on this site. Glad to hear the thing makes electricity.............JEFF
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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Oldcarmark, I am curious as to what regulator you purchased, what brand is on the box/device, part number and is it an electronic or electro-mechanical? It was interesting to see what looked like a fairly new but mechanical reg. in the photo you added to this thread. I didn't think mech. regulators were being made any longer, not even in China. The last time I needed a reg. for the Ford G1 alternator I searched the internet for the latest N.O.S. electronic reg. by Motorcraft. I found only a few out there but it appears the last of the "old school" quality (Ford/Motorcraft) electronic regulators are getting very hard to find. Thanks, JEFF.....................
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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The One that was Defective was an AC Delco F672. Made in USA. I was lucky to get an Electronic Solid State at the local NAPA who happened to have One on the Shelf. Napa VR440SB. The genuine Ford Ones You were looking for are GR540B. There's about 6-7 on Ebay that are real Motorcraft and several Imitation Ones.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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Greetings: The AC Delco was defective, hmmmm. Thanks for the information on the Napa unit and the e-bay listings.
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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.FORD DEARBORN (8/16/2017)
Greetings: The AC Delco was defective, hmmmm. Thanks for the information on the Napa unit and the e-bay listings.
Surprising that the US Made One was defective. I unplugged it and plugged in the Napa one and the Alt. worked as expected. I bought the Delco one because it looked like the One I took off. I was going to paint the Cover Black so it looked original.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 7 Years Ago
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If you really want the reg. to look true and correct, covers are make for those who restore to concourse correctness. Many Mustangs are judged for points etc. and the 65 was the first year for the alternator. These covers are really nice reproductions available from NPD and will enhance any Ford engine compartment. I put the 65 cover version on my 64 truck and no one has called me on the fact that it should have a generator.
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