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By tomfiii - 8 Years Ago
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Any thoughts on this?
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/new-engine-break-in-method-turns-down-heat-reduces-wear/
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By Lord Gaga - 8 Years Ago
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Makes sense. Sounds good.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 8 Years Ago
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The last sentence (recommending continued use of 'break-in' oil & additives, both of which Comp Cams sells) deserves some pondering.
Data from the 'Rat' oil wear blog (discussed here previously) dismisses the whole concept of elaborate break-in procedures. It is impossible to speed ring break-in without also risking lobe-wipe. Thus (just like with new vehicles), the best break-in oil is the one that allows the LEAST wear, which is also what you would select for everyday use. While more caution is likely justified with flat-tappet motors (the cool-down period advice does make sense though, and so does the traditional changing of the oil/filter after break-in), the use of high-wear break-in oils & zinc additives that (contrary to accepted belief) actually INCREASE wear is not!
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By 2721955meteor - 8 Years Ago
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some 20years ago i visited one of cats engine assembly plant,when engines wher completed they wher filled with hot oil and water,on start up oil pressure ok water temp stable aprox 10mine run,then full rpm and full load for 15 min.(hooked to a dyne and rune at loads they wher desighned for. removed frome dyne painted shipped to customer. very few if any failures.
some engines that wher low on power went to special spot for repair,re dynode.
when i worked in victoria ,cat dealer. we rebuilt 3208 engines ,they wher a flat tappet cam pushrod and rockers 225 hp small truck engines. we dynoed them for 1hr at full load, painted and sold.the year end we had built 50 had no failures.
so my exp is the sugested breakin that is popular on this site is wast of time. put the thing together correctly with aditives on the cam for startup. prelude and you ready to go. just my take
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By Ted - 8 Years Ago
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I’ll weigh in on this seeing as how I run in two-three engines per week on the engine dyno.
If there is going to be a camshaft/tappet problem, it begins right at the initial start up. The run procedure after that initial startup will not help that particular problem but extended running will make it more obvious and possibly spread it to other areas. In other words, extended running once the problem begins simply makes it worse. It may take 10-30 minutes for a wear issue to become bad enough that it becomes perceptible. My break in procedure simply has the engine running at 2000-2500 rpms for twenty minutes and then stopping the engine for a cool down. Because I’m breaking in the engines on an engine dynometer, the engine is being loaded and unloaded repeatedly against a water brake so that the rings are being seated to the freshly honed cylinders. If there are any strange noises or observations during that initial run cycle, then the engine is shut down immediately so potential problems can be addressed sooner rather than later without as much damage being performed to the parts in question. While the engine is still hot after shutting it down, the valve lash is checked for any problems and adjusted accordingly. The engine is then allowed to cool to ambient temperatures before starting it again; this allows a full heat cycle to be put into the piston rings and valve springs. When possible, the engine is allowed to cool overnight before starting it again.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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I don't know if the info in the video is relevant to old Y blocks. I ran mine on a stand through a few heat cycles. then let cool and then re torqued the heads and ran up to temp again to set the valves. This was the first time I did it that way, in the old days we just put rebuild straight into the car and drove it :-)
Questions and more questions.
The question I always had was how did the factory do it?
Did they actually run the engines in before installing?
Before "THE SKY IS FALLING, THEY REDUCED THE ZINC" how many PPM was the zinc in the crappy oils we had in the 50-60's and cams didn't go flat?
I broke my engine in with no special break in oil or additives, just plane Valvoline 10-30 conventional and now 8500 miles and all is fine..
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By 2721955meteor - 8 Years Ago
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the cat plant i visited dynode 200 per day, not that numbers mean much,failures of coarse are the issue .I had several failures on fe 352 ,but was my fault reusing lifters that where marginal.failures where within 20 miles of use, as well high spring pressures, in 1964 tried putting a 406 cam and springs in my 352 using rockers and lifters from 332 solid lifter engine. expensive money saver,but good lesson.
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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In a study made by Blackstone Industries commissioned by Gil Baumgartner (TBird restoration expert) an 80's popular oil (Pennzoil 10W/40) contained 547 ppm of phosphorus and 715 ppm of zinc. I don' know what the aggregate would be as ZDDP, but it seems even in the 80's the oil had less than the better grades of today's oil that run 1000 or so of ZDDP.
57RancheroJim (6/17/2017)
Before "THE SKY IS FALLING, THEY REDUCED THE ZINC" how many PPM was the zinc in the crappy oils we had in the 50-60's and cams didn't go flat?
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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Most manufacturers make that info available in product information sheets. For instance, Valvoline conventional has .083/.076 zinc/phosphorus.
That Penzoil works out to .072/.055.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks Paul and Charlie, that is great info.
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By Talkwrench - 8 Years Ago
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Ted could you explain this one a lit more "the engine is being loaded and unloaded repeatedly against a water brake so that the rings are being seated to the freshly honed cylinders" Is the common on dynos ? Ive always thought it best to have the engine in the car for load.
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By Ted - 8 Years Ago
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Talkwrench (6/19/2017)
Ted could you explain this one a lit more "the engine is being loaded and unloaded repeatedly against a water brake so that the rings are being seated to the freshly honed cylinders" Is the common on dynos ? Ive always thought it best to have the engine in the car for load.
I remember an older tech bulletin for the Chrysler Hemi drag race engines that simply stated ‘Make six half throttle passes to seat in the rings’. The dyno does this much quicker and in a controlled environment. If there’s a problem, it’s best that it happens on the dyno and not in the vehicle. I dyno a large number of restored Corvette engines not for the power numbers but to simply insure that the engines are in good condition before being installed in their chassis. Nothing worse than doing a bunch of detail work on the engine compartment and then having to pull the engine for a problem that could have been found before installing it in the car.
Consider the water brake on the dynometer as being an adjustable torque converter. The dyno can be used to simulate the loads imposed on an engine both in normal driving and full throttle driving. When loading an engine on the dyno to seat the rings, I’ll simply put the engine at roughly 100HP for a couple of minutes at a time which would be like climbing a stiff hill or pulling a trailer. The rpms for this are kept at some value less than 3000 rpms. The blowby from the breather can be observed to slowly diminish during this procedure which is also another good indicator that the rings are being properly seated.
When making or modifying a ‘map’ for a fuel injected engine, the engine will be ‘driven’ on the dyno similar to what is occurring in an automobile by varying the throttle and load controls to simulate running through the gears. By doing this and observing the various instrumentation that’s included with the dyno, the ‘map’ can be modified to improve the engine performance and/or drivability characteristics. It’s much quicker and more accurate doing it this way than taking the car out and doing it by ‘seat of the pants’.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Teds method on the Dyno is the best way, BUT! many of us are just back yard shade tree mechanics without the luxury of having a dyno. I just have a homemade stand on wheels I can roll out of the garage and fire the engines up to break in the cam, check for leaks or any other possible problem. Much easier to re torque the heads, set valves etc then when its in the car.
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By Talkwrench - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted. Is that a common feature on dynos?
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By Lord Gaga - 8 Years Ago
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After running in the cam and lifters for 20-30 minutes @ 2000-2500 I change the oil, take the car to a secluded stretch of road and make five 3/4 throttle pulls in 2nd or 3rd gear (for a 4 speed) from 2000 RPM to 3500-4000 RPM in succession closing the throttle and coasting in between to seat the rings. Who needs a dyno!? lol
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By Ted - 8 Years Ago
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Talkwrench (6/21/2017)
Thanks Ted. Is that a common feature on dynos?
That would be a ‘Yes’.
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By LordMrFord - 8 Years Ago
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What was engine break-in procedure in Ford's engine plant in back in the ages when the Y-Blocks were brand new? I think they didnt lose much cams during the sessions.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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LordMrFord (6/21/2017)
What was engine break-in procedure in Ford's engine plant in back in the ages when the Y-Blocks were brand new? I think they didnt lose much cams during the sessions. Thats the same question I asked in an earlier post but didn't get any reply..
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By Lord Gaga - 8 Years Ago
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I'll bet the answer is "none"!
Every original from the factory Y Block I've torn down has had a bad cam with several badly worn lobes. Several years ago I went on a quest to find a good 1957 stock cam for a project and pulled several from junkyard engines...all were bad. I gave up. LordMrFord (6/21/2017)
What was engine break-in procedure in Ford's engine plant in back in the ages when the Y-Blocks were brand new? I think they didnt lose much cams during the sessions.
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By 2721955meteor - 8 Years Ago
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according to local cam grinder,the worst year for cam problems in canada was 1956
cams made in 55. his comments was end of the day production wher left without washing after parkerizing which afected lobes on1 end. eventually that was corrected. i have several good cores from 57 engines .
does any members know how to id when and where cams wher procesed.
another cam grinder who specializes in cummins eng. cams for dodge trucks gets his cores cast in the us to his specs,claiming most replacement cam blanks are from china and poor quality. he also claimed a regrind
is good bet as the core is proven. seems even scrubey boys have the lions share of cam issues thes days.
good stuff for users to comment on. my info is mostly hear say.
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By Smallblock - 8 Years Ago
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The main thing I say about brake in is to make sure the engine starts quickly when you make the first attempt, I have lost two Cams over the years and both Cams were in engines that had problems starting. One caused by a bad ignition module that would hit and miss the other buy a faulty new Carburetor.
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By Small block - 8 Years Ago
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Yes I agree with you But I found out the hard way!
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By LordMrFord - 8 Years Ago
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56Roger (6/22/2017)
For a number of years now my experience with new carburetors is that you have to assume they are not ready to use out of the box.
One thing when playing with EFI is that there is much more things what can go south when starting a new engine.
There is times when I can give my other nut in exchange to working roller lifters for Y-Block. 
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