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By RLJ - 7 Years Ago
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Greetings from Oregon. My first car was a 1956 Merc Montclair 4dr htp Phaethon, 312 auto. Bought that in '68 for $25 with a bad starter and a blown head gasket between 2 cylinders, Fixed it and what a great running car. Must have been owned by a little old lady who only drove it to church on Sundays lol! It's long gone and fast fwd to now. I know very little about Y blocks as the '56 Merc, a very short stint with '57 F100, 55 Ford wagon with a 272,and a '54 F100 w a 239 were all owned in the late'60's. My brother recently passed and his '54 Sun Valley apparently has a bad engine. It has been in shop for sometime and his intentions were to modernize the drivetrain which I am totally against. He said the shop guys told him they couldn't get the parts to repair the 256. So I've been studying the situation trying to learn as much as I can about parts, interchanges etc. It will be a couple weeks before I will be able to see the car and talk to the mechanics but I want to be armed with as much info as possible when I talk to these guys. My understanding is the '54 has some differences, fuel pump, cam bearing diameters and cam gear teeth. We would like to put the 256 back in but thinking if it's too far gone or finding parts becomes difficult or too expensive a later 292 might be an option. So this is the same bore as a 272 and I'm not finding a lot 272 rebuild parts. I guess for now I'm looking for someone in the Portland area who could possibly go through this engine or someone who could share their knowledge of these. The Portland swapmeet is just around the corner, I have a space at Expo and will be prowling there and PIR. If any of you experts will be there maybe we could get together and discuss a solution.
Any info will be greatly appreciated,
Dick
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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RLJ. Welcome to the site.
Parts for the '54 Ford 239 and Mercury 256 are less available than for the later y-blocks as you indicated. Pistons for the later 272s are less available, too. Yes, I'd encourage you to go the 292 route for rebuilding purposes.
IF you haven't seen these articles they'll get you on board with the evolution of the FoMoCo y-block from '54 - '64... Click the links below to access them.
This first article is written by Ted Eaton. Ted is a moderator on this Internet Forum, owns Eaton Balancing in Texas, and was the 2016 winner of Hot Rod Magazine sponsored Engine Masters Challenge running a modified 292 y-block in the Vintage Class (see the March 2017 issue of Hot Rod Magazine; notice Ted's engine entry on the front cover and the accompanying article on pages 62 and 63)...
http://www.eatonbalancing.com/yblock.php
The second article is written by Tim McMaster who heads up an automotive machine shop at Hanford Auto Supply in Hanford, California, is a racer, and like Ted, is very knowledgeable about y-blocks...
http://yblockguy.com/about_the_y-block_ford.htm
Another resource is the web site owned by John Mummert. John has an automotive machine shop and y-block parts supply located in El Cajon, California. John is an excellent individual to turn to for y-block parts needed for rebuilding or modification of Ford y-blocks. John's web site is at Ford y-block.com The link that follows will get you to the Technical section of his Internet site that is a treasure trove of y-block information...
http://ford-y-block.com/technical.htm
Hope this helps. 
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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The only reason to keep the '54 engine is if you simply must have it be original. Otherwise, you are better off to replace it with a later 292 because parts are much easier to find, cheaper, and because of the 36 extra CI, you will get more power. If you build a 292 to the '57 spec, you will have about 50 more hp that is totally streetable, with a smooth, stock sounding idle.
99% of people will not know the difference. You can put the correct 256 decals on the valve covers and paint it the correct color, and practically no one but you will know.
If you have room, keep the original engine stashed away somewhere, so that it can be made stock again, if desired.
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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In case you're not familiar with them, this yard is just over the border in Vancouver WA. I had good luck with Y block parts some time back, might be worth a call.
http://www.allamericanclassics.com
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By paul2748 - 7 Years Ago
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I agree with the others and go for a 292. You can use all the outside 256 parts so no one will know the difference. Keep the 256 in case you sell the car as it might be a good selling point.
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By RLJ - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks for all the replies! All the sites listed, I've been there. I'm getting a real education for sure. I will be going to look at the car in the morning and get an idea of what I have to work with. Some thoughts I had today, I've seen where the 272 blocks were bored to 292, would there be enough meat on the 256 to do that since it's the same bore as a 272? Put in the 292 crank and rods and have the original block. Possible? Then I see the cons of this one year block, fuel pump, water pump and what's the deal with distributor gear and cam journal size? Vacuum advance only distributor. How am I doing educating myself? So yes the 292 is looking more like the way to go. Thanks for the tip on All American Classics in Vancouver, yes I have heard of them but hadn't thought about them. I need to find a builder who knows what they are doing, been reading up on the rocker arm oiling which I know back in the day was a problem due to non-detergent oils. Don't need a hot rod just a sweet runner.
Dick
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By RLJ - 7 Years Ago
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Looks like a 292 it is. Just got back from looking at the car, they tell me it's been there for 20 yrs! The engine that was in it was a 312 and it broke the crank.
Dick
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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This doesn't add up. First, it is a 256 that they can't find parts for. Now it is a 312 that broke the crank. Unless there is some important piece of info that we outsiders are not aware of, I'd seriously evaluate the trustworthiness of that shop.
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By RLJ - 7 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (2/21/2017)
This doesn't add up. First, it is a 256 that they can't find parts for. Now it is a 312 that broke the crank. Unless there is some important piece of info that we outsiders are not aware of, I'd seriously evaluate the trustworthiness of that shop.
I was assuming it was the original engine by the condition of the car. Aren't 312's and parts harder to find?  
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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The crank is harder to come by but still not that hard to find if you take the time to look. If that is all that is broken, then it shouldn't be a big deal.
Main bearings might be difficult, depending on the size needed. Otherwise, typical rebuild stuff should be pretty easy.
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By paul2748 - 7 Years Ago
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There an old saying which I will paraphrase
To a seller, every YBlock is a 312 until you look inside
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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Ok, I guess I'm not the only one confused. The car would have been a 256, OEM. Now it has a 312 with a broken crank. So you're looking for a 292 to replace it. Is that right?
If not, fill us in on how far they've torn the engine down, and just what they found. A couple pictures of the end of the crank, or the main caps would help. I'm just south of Seattle, and I've got some spare parts.
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By Ted - 7 Years Ago
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RLJ (2/21/2017)
....Some thoughts I had today, I've seen where the 272 blocks were bored to 292, would there be enough meat on the 256 to do that since it's the same bore as a 272? Put in the 292 crank and rods and have the original block. Possible? Then I see the cons of this one year block, fuel pump, water pump and what's the deal with distributor gear and cam journal size? Vacuum advance only distributor. How am I doing educating myself? So yes the 292 is looking more like the way to go. Thanks for the tip on All American Classics in Vancouver, yes I have heard of them but hadn't thought about them. I need to find a builder who knows what they are doing, been reading up on the rocker arm oiling which I know back in the day was a problem due to non-detergent oils. Don't need a hot rod just a sweet runner.
Dick
Sonic testing any block is recommended when any serious overboring is contemplated. The ’54 Ford and Mercury engines had a larger cam bore which complicates using 1955 and up camshafts. For that single reason, it’s recommended to simply use a ’55 and newer block as your replacement. 292's are the obvious choice but don't discount using a 272. The 1954 water pump and fuel pump can be retained if desired for originality purposes on the newer engines as those are connected to the 1954 specific timing cover which will bolt directly to the later model blocks.
It would be nice to have some more detail on what’s actually in the car now. A ½” waterpump bypass hose and 5/6-18 bolts holding the fuel pump to the timing cover will at least tell you that the original 256 timing cover was used but does not guarantee that the engine itself is a 256. Many people don’t recognize the differences in the water pumps but the 256 had a physically smaller sized water pump than the 1955 and later engines. As has been mentioned, once the pan has been removed, then main cap identification will help to determine if a 312 block is sitting within the frame rails. While many 312 have a 5/16" raised dot on the rear crankshaft flange, not all of them have this and these are mistaken for being non-312 cranks. A cylinder wall bore check may also help to identify which engine it is but with overboring these engines being rampant during the day, there are no guarantees in positive block identification in doing this. The block casting numbers along with the casting date can go a long way in identifying what engine you have so those would be nice to have.
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By RLJ - 7 Years Ago
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Sorry for the confusion as I'm in somewhat the same situation myself and am sorting this out so bear with me. As the car sits the engine is removed. My brother had several classics and this shop did all of his work. They told me the Merc has been sitting there in this condition for at least 20 years. Thinking about that it's very possible. He had changed his mind over the years over the engine replacement from what they told me. Modern or original. Why nothing was done only he knows and I have know way of knowing other than some recent conversations before his passing which was a modern power plant to which I was opposed. The engine is out of the car, I have not seen it yet to verify it was a 312, I'm only going on what I was told yesterday. The fate of the car at this point is somewhat undetermined but the value would be considerably higher as a running driving car IMO. So we are sorting this out. I believe I have found a rebuilt 256 to put it back to original so that is an option. I have also found a couple 292's, runners and cores. We are going to weigh this option also. I have yet to talk to someone about rebuilding one of these and also have a local lead to follow up on for this. This will be no hotrod, just needs a sweet running dependable engine for my sister inlaw to drive if she decides to keep the car. If the heads from the 312 are the better heads to use and if these are with the car we'll use them. Will check casting numbers as I proceed. I realize if I put my nose to the ground and really wanted to find a 312 parts I probably could and the "hunt" is always fun. However that is not the goal unless it's drops into my lap. The 292 is the most common and probably the easiest to find and quickest solution. I hope I've cleared up some confusion. I do appreciate all the replies!
Thank you,
Dick
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By mrmike - 7 Years Ago
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With my 54 Merc, I went the route that the guys stated here. I called many of the companies that rebuild engines & they also steered me away from rebuilding the 256. I kept the original & is still under my workbench since 2000. If you need any parts, let me know ,as I bought a lot back then. I have some stainless trim. Mike
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By RLJ - 7 Years Ago
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mrmike (2/25/2017)
With my 54 Merc, I went the route that the guys stated here. I called many of the companies that rebuild engines & they also steered me away from rebuilding the 256. I kept the original & is still under my workbench since 2000. If you need any parts, let me know ,as I bought a lot back then. I have some stainless trim. Mike
Thanks for offer Mike, the only thing I'm seeing non original on this car are the hub caps. That might be something we'll look for down the road.
Was back at shop yesterday and got to the engine, casting letters confirms it is the original 256ci EBY. Talked to the owner to what was wrong with the engine. He says a squeal and a knock. I've heard that noise before, spun rod bearing comes to mind. So finally some straight talk and confirmation to what it is I'm working with.
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