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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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How much of an improvement are manual discs over the factory drums? I want to upgrade the fronts and maybe rears(depending on which axle I use) to discs.If it is a big improvement I would rather just upgrade the master cyl and forgo the booster.
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By Louis Champeau - 9 Years Ago
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Disk brakes do not stop as fast as drums, drums have more swept area (reason large trucks went back to drums) Disks do disapate heat faster there for fade less (reason race cars use them). Manfactures went to disk for two ressons, # 1 great sale point, race car brakes, #2 less parts, cheaper to install on production line.
You can get hard linnings for drums that solve the fade problem but you might need a power booster for very hard linnings.
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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That's interesting. Not that I doubt you but I wonder why then the disc conversions are so popular?
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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There's a lot of different opinions on this. I think the the old linings with asbestos did a much better job than our current drum linings. Someone wrote some years ago that if you make multiple panic stops in a street car and encounter fade, you've got a driving problem, not a brake problem. My light 32 roadster has drums all around, Buicks on the front. Locks the bias plies, no problem. But it weighs a third of what a Buick did, and has smaller tires.
If you can adjust the brakes so they don't pull, and they lock the tires, you need better tires, not better brakes. Fade, towing a load, racing, are different issues. It comes down to the tire in the end, for one hard stop.
I like the disc on the front of the 55 bird. The disc on the rear were a waste of money. I should have kept the drums, and changed them to self adjusting. But I'm running 225 and 235 T /A radials, respectively, and the car stops much better than on 205 Cokers.
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By paul2748 - 9 Years Ago
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When I changed my 54 to discs in the front (Granada conversion) I decided to go without power. I have not regretted that decision and I am very satisfied the way it stops, including a couple of emergency panic stops. I put a fair amount of miles on the car almost every year so I give it a good test. Whether its a big difference between the manual drums and the manual discs it's hard to say.
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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Are you running manual or power on your bird? I plan on doing the disc conversion I just wondered if power brakes were really necessary.
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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As far as stopping power, I really didn't notice a difference when I converted to front discs. It wasn't worse and it wasn't better, so a move sideways as far as stopping power. I'm running a manual disc/drum system. What I do like is the ease of maintenance over drums - much easier brake jobs, slightly easier hub removal for greasing bearings
What miker says about tires is also true, the vehicle will stop only as well as the tires can grip. Drum brakes in good condition have no trouble at all locking the wheels.
If your drum brakes are in need of repair, then a disc conversion could actually be a cost effective option depending on just how much work the drums need.
62bigwindow, does that refer to a '62 F100? If you have a 9", a good swap for the rear brakes is to get either the axles, drums, and backing plates from a '68-70something F100 or the entire axle assembly from the same year range is nearly a bolt in for a '62 - just get the whole thing and swap it in. This gets you a rear drum brake that is 1/2" wider than stock. That combined with the typical front discs kits gets you pretty much a '73 up F150 brake system - a system that works on vehicles that should have similar dynamics.
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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My 62 has 4 wheel discs but it's not done yet so it will be a while before I have an opinion on its brakes. I am working on the brakes on my 56 Ranch Wagon. Sorry for not being clear on what I am working on.
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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My 'bird has a hydroboost unit, powered off the power steering. I didn't find the manual 4 drums a problem. The front disc kit (1998?) had a stock booster (vacuum) for the front disc only. It's too much boost for me now, but the wife likes it. Need I say more?
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By MarkMontereyBay - 9 Years Ago
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I upgraded to disc front brakes on my 57 bird. See some of my previous posts about that.. I used the Granada front spindles, etc., Granada manual disc/drum master cylinder and a Wilwood combination valve. I was a little skeptical about the lack of power brakes but they are great. Steady, straight, and easy pedal effort stops. No need for the booster in my case.
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By MoonShadow - 9 Years Ago
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A friend in Hawaii was running drum brakes on the front of his 70 Firebird drag car. I was surprised and had to ask why. According to him the drums are considerably lighter. That was a new one on me. Chuck
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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What duel chamber master is the most direct bolt on? Also what is the proper way to adjust the push rod ? I have to go through the rear brakes and this would be a good time to switch master. I am researchin rear self adjusters. When u get the part numbers I will post for everyone.
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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Might be something useful here
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/self-adjusting-brakes-for-a-54.899224/#post-10196463
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By Canadian Hot Rodder - 9 Years Ago
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I performed the disc brake conversion almost 13 years ago on my 56 and it was one of the best things I ever did to the car! Cut my stopping distance in half, no more constant adjusting the front brakes to prevent pulling to either side and I am still running on the same pads I installed 13 years ago and they are only worn to the halfway point!
I went with Granada spindles and manual disc. Everything was a complete bolt in (including the Granada master) only modifications to the car were reaming out the lower spindle for the larger ball joint and splitting my brake lines. All parts were purchased through Napa and cost me less than $300.00 Canadian. Oh and parts are still available through Napa, over the counter! Unless you are restoring a concourse car and want to be completely factory original, throw away the drums and save you ride (and yourself) in today's traffic!
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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Does it matter what year Granada is used?
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By Canadian Hot Rodder - 9 Years Ago
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Bigwindow,
No it doesn't matter, I used 77 Granada spindles from a wrecking yard, so that is the year I ordered for. However, all Granada or Mercury Monarch brakes are the same from 75 to 82 which I believe was the last year for the Granada (?) .
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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Which prop valve did you use? I assume the 56 will not work since it's for drum brakes.
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By Canadian Hot Rodder - 9 Years Ago
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I was actually told that some conversions (like Drop-N-Stop) don't need to use proportioning valves! I was informed that the stock rear wheel cylinders are proportioned properly for use with calipers up front and a stock Granda, dual master ??? (your choice)
However, I decided to install a universal Willwood proportioning valve. That being said, when I went to set it up, I threaded the valve fully in & out to find the middle point. I then went to an empty parking lot to test the brakes. To my surprise, middle setting worked perfectly! Car nose dives and stops straight without locking up the brakes under hard deceleration. Slam on the brakes and rear tires do lock up, but car stops within a reasonable distance with no pulling to either side.
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By '60 Fairlane - 9 Years Ago
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If you use the Granada/Monarch spindles look for 1975 to 1980 donor cars. The '81 & '82 models are another variant of the early 80's Fox Body. The late 5 lug Maverick/Comet front disc brakes and spindles should be the same as the early Granada parts.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 9 Years Ago
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The Mustang '71 to '73 disc knuckles are the same as the Granada - but the Mustangs had some better brakes than the little sedans .......... The lower tapers will have to be opened for the earlier ball joints, same as the Granada.
Wilwood also sells a nice Mustang disc brake package - that fits the '71 to '73 Mustang, Maverick drum knuckles - and therefore swaps in nicely too (after the tapers are opened up).
For '70 to '73 Mustang use - you can get some serious road racer brakes ........but they require 16 inch wheels. These are 1.25 thick x 12.0 diameter rotors fitted to Granada drum brake knuckles.
"AS YE GO - SO MUST YE STOP"
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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So I should be looking for Mustang 71-73 spindles? I think they might be easier to find as I did a quick search for Granada spindles and didn't come up with much. One last question, how much do they lower the car?
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By PF Arcand - 9 Years Ago
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How much it changes the height of the car is a good question.. Have seen these conversions previously discussed, but never could seem to get a handle on what is really needed.. Will any of the before mentioned parts & setup work on a 57 car? I'll presume that the stock 14"- 1957 wheels would also need to be replaced with what? due to caliper clearance issues? Any definate info appreciated.
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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I'm pretty sure you will have to switch to 15" wheels or an aftermarket 14" wheel. I am going to lower the car some anyway but I would rather do it with springs but I could live with a combination of both to gain better braking.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 9 Years Ago
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Lowering the car with the spindles is always better in my opinion - and the Mustang / Granada spindles not only have the bigger outside bearing - but they are raised about an inch above the lower ball joint lugs. When "re-reaming" that lower lug - it is possible to lower the car further by "artfully" choosing the depth of the taper (which then alters the downward position of the ball joint). You can always play with the spring rates later on and having room to make them tall is nice too.
This picture shows the back of one of the later spindles (drum spindle from a "71 Mustang) - and it plainly shows the location of the "lathe center' used to finish turn the spindle in the Ford production machinery. On the earlier knuckles, that backside center is down on the ball joint lug. That is the static difference in design ride height between the two. This assumes - as mentioned earlier - the lower ball joint taper is sunk into that lower lug, as far as it is in the early knuckle. The spindle rise was not so much to lower the later cars (which it did) but it moves the upper joint down away from the tire sidewall.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 9 Years Ago
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The small car steering knuckles - Mustang / Falcon / Maverick / Granada etc. are described on this document - will try to get it to come through.......
The 6-7-8 versions are what you would want to find. The Lincoln Versailles version is actually "pre-reamed" for the earlier taper size. Those are a good find.
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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Funny you should mention the Lincoln Versailles. I just bought a set! Ok now the big question. What else do I need? Do I get calipers etc for a Granada or a Versailles?
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By GREENBIRD56 - 9 Years Ago
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Myself - I think if you have the Versailles knuckle parts, you should continue down that road and use the matching calipers and rotors. It will make repairs simpler at a future date - won't have to tell so many lies to get the right stuff at an auto parts store......just know the donor model/year info and recite well. If those matching parts turn out to be less than desirable however - then look at alternatives that fit on the big knuckles. Some of the later Granada brakes were tiny, skinny little parts - even though they had the bigger, better spindles. Guys who have swapped the Granada disc brakes onto drum brake Mustangs bitch a lot about warped rotors - when they use them in severe applications (like track time).
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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Thanks GreenBird. I did a quick search for parts and found everything pretty quick. Will let everyone know how it goes.
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