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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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Is there any difference in physical size between the two trans? I am swapping from a 6 to a y block in my Ranch Wagon and would like to upgrade to the T85. I thought a but a T5 but I like the nostalgia of the three speed.
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By Dobie - 9 Years Ago
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The T85 is physically bigger (and heavier) than the T86. The T86 is a light duty trans for 6 cyl and small V8 applications. The T85 is much stouter and was found behind engines up to 406 cubes in FOMOCO applications. The T85 should fit your trans tunnel with no mods needed to the tunnel/firewall. Your linkage should also work with it.
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By steinauge - 9 Years Ago
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How can you tell one from the other from the outside?
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By Daniel Jessup - 9 Years Ago
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The T86 is a top load trans case from my understanding. The T85 is sideload, and the bottom of the cover plate is CURVED as opposed to the other mid fifties ford transmissions being a pretty square rectangle. Google images for T85's and see what you come up with.
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By Richard - 9 Years Ago
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You might consider a T85 with Overdrive. Its a 30% reduction in RPMs
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By 57RancheroJim - 9 Years Ago
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I use a T85 with OD behind my Y in my 57. My T85 was from a 61 390/401hp Galaxie. Had to change clutch disc to a 23 spline and the yoke on the drive shaft, I think the bigger output shaft on the T85 is the same size and spline as a C6..
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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The one I am looking to buy is an overdrive. I am just trying to minimize any surprises when doing the engine/trans swap.
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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62bigwindow (6/4/2015)
Is there any difference in physical size between the two trans? I am swapping from a 6 to a y block in my Ranch Wagon and would like to upgrade to the T85. I thought a but a T5 but I like the nostalgia of the three speed.
My ’55 Ford Customline originally had the T86 overdrive and I swapped it over to a T85 overdrive tranny in about 1990. The T85 physically fit the ’55 tunnel without any problems but I did have to modify the transmission crossmember for the relocated transmission mount and change up the driveshaft due to the different u-joint requirement.
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By RB - 9 Years Ago
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If you get a T-85 make sure it comes with the tail shaft yoke.. They are very difficult to find
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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What mod did you have to do to the crossmember Ted? I assume you had to move the mount back?
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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Royce's and Ted's information pertaining to T-85 driveshaft yokes and trans. rear mounts is good, depending upon the year of the T-85.
That said, be careful that whatever T-85 you're looking at is out of a Ford or Mercury. T-85s were used in a lot of other applications like Studebakers, Packards, and former Chrysler Corp. vehicles to name a few. Check to make sure that the transmission main case bolt pattern is FoMoCo bellhousing type and that the input shaft is either 10 or 23 spline.
Royce's point regarding the trans. output shaft is particularly true for the '55, '56, and '57 FoMoCo spline count of 16. I'm told that this Spicer yoke has been out of production for years. The saving grace IF you do need one of these yokes is to find a '55, '56, or '57 Merc with a driveshaft in it. Whether the trans is a T-85 3 speed, 3 spd. w/ od OR a Merc-O-Matic (yes, a Mercury auto trans.) the driveshaft yoke is the same!
The later Ford T-85s, '58(?) into the early '60s passenger cars used a 31 spline tailshaft. These yokes are easier to find and may be the same as some FoMoCo automatics. -I don't know my post '57 Fords well enough to say.
Another interesting thing regarding the T-85s is that they are a look-alike for a T-89. Both have 9 bolt curved side-covers as Dan described. Both have side covers that have casting marks including the I.D. of T-89! The internal difference is that the main shaft in the T-85 has a helical spline while the T-89 has a main shaft with a straight spline. I've been told that T-89s were commonly used in Ford trucks...
FoMoCo T-85s and T-89s with overdrive used the Borg Warner R-11 overdrive units that had 4 gear planetary units. The T-86s you asked about used Borg Warner R-10 overdrive units that had 3 gear planetary units.
The T-85s and T-89s are RUGGED transmissions. Neither has a synchronized 1st gear. The R-11 overdrives are also a rugged unit. I have run into R-10 and R-11 units where there have been problems with the planetary gear set or the overrunning clutch unit, but the problems I've seen have stemmed from failure to maintain lubricant levels.
These links will show you a picture of what the T-85 and T-89 trans. main shafts I've described look like. -The pictures are borrowed from eBay.
T-89 straight spline trans. main shaft
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281690647918?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
T-85 helical spline trans. main shaft
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331469112457?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Hope this helps. 
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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62bigwindow (6/7/2015)
What mod did you have to do to the crossmember Ted? I assume you had to move the mount back?
Ford had Borg Warner change the location of the T-85 w/ od transmission rear frame mount for the '57 'Bird application. My understanding is that post '57 Ford passenger cars went to the same T-85 od rear transmission mount location as was used for the '57 'Bird application. Said another way, my understanding is that '58 - mid '60s Ford passenger car T-85 od transmissions will directly bolt into a '57 'Bird. The difference between the later ('58 - mid '60s) T-85 w/ od and the original '57 'Bird application is the trans input shaft spline [23 instead of 10] and the rear output shaft spline [31 instead of 16].
1956 was the first year for use of the T-85 in the 'Bird application. Ford moved to use the T-85 w/ od as an option in the '56 'Birds equipped with the 312 engine. The 292 engines used in the '56 'Birds came with only the T-86 with 3 speed transmission (no FordoMatics or T-86s w/ od).
In moving to use the T-85 overdrive transmission in the '56 'Birds, Ford borrowed the T-85 od transmission used in the '55 and '56 Mercury application. To make the '56 Merc T-85 w/ od transmission connect with the existing '56 'Bird rear transmission frame bracket, Ford manufactured an adapter that mounted to the rear of the T-85 od extension housing.
For those individuals trying to mount a '55 or '56 Merc T-85 w/ od transmission in a '55, '56, or '57 'Bird, the link below will show you what one 'Bird follower has had produced. It is a facsimile of the adapter Ford used for '56 'Birds, not an exact reproduction. Look at the seller's pictures showing the original Ford adapter and his knock-off for facilitating the installation.
Note: scroll down through the seller's eBay ad to see the additional pictures of the original Ford 'Bird application bracket and the seller's facsimile piece.
From eBay Motors...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Thunderbird-transmission-extension-/310884001327?hash=item486221662f
Ford application T-85s w/ od that I have weighed come in at 149 lbs. (!)
I don't know the source of the T-85 w/ od that Ted installed in his '55 Ford. The year of the original application may affect where the rear extension housing mount is located and what he had to do to make it work. The adapter Ford used for the '56 'Bird was necessary because of the X frame member and the space restrictions it imposed to moving the frame support bracket.
Hope this is of some help for what you might be doing.
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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62bigwindow (6/7/2015)
What mod did you have to do to the crossmember Ted? I assume you had to move the mount back?
The T85 OD tranny I used was out of a 1963 Galaxy with a 352 engine. The transmission mount was approximately ¾” more rearward and simply required a section added into the original ’55 transmission crossmember that would accommodate the revised trans mount location.
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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NoShortcuts (6/9/2015)
..... Ford application T-85s w/ od that I have weighed come in at 149 lbs. (!) .....
Thanks for the weight on those transmissions. That explains why I’m having trouble bench pressing those transmissions back into place.
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By 57RancheroJim - 9 Years Ago
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Ted (6/9/2015)
NoShortcuts (6/9/2015)
..... Ford application T-85s w/ od that I have weighed come in at 149 lbs. (!) ..... Thanks for the weight on those transmissions. That explains why I’m having trouble bench pressing those transmissions back into place. I use to bench press the old Ford 3 speeds in my younger years but when I did the T85 last year I had to use my floor jack, they are heavy. I removed the solenoid just in case it dropped to be on the safe side. Trying to find those is almost impossible..
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By Dobie - 9 Years Ago
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The solenoids are being repopped now. Not cheap, though. Try Fifth Avenue Antique Auto Parts and Van Pelt Sales.
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By 57RancheroJim - 9 Years Ago
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Dobie (6/9/2015)
The solenoids are being repopped now. Not cheap, though. Try Fifth Avenue Antique Auto Parts and Van Pelt Sales. Van Pelts website says they have been out of stock for the last couple of years. I've never called Fifth Avenue.
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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Fifth Avenue looks to have just about everything. They even have the relay and solenoid.
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By 62bigwindow - 9 Years Ago
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The t85 od I am looking at is out of a 60 'bird. The seller said that the shift linkage was to short and had to be extended about 4 inches to work in his 56. Is there a floor shift kit available for the t85. I don't want to have to hassle with the linkage if I have to.
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By Dobie - 9 Years Ago
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62bigwindow (6/13/2015)
The t85 od I am looking at is out of a 60 'bird. The seller said that the shift linkage was to short and had to be extended about 4 inches to work in his 56. Is there a floor shift kit available for the t85. I don't want to have to hassle with the linkage if I have to.
Any generic 3 speed floor shift kit will work, but you'll still have to modify the linkage to clear the solenoid. I think there used to be OD specific kits available back in the day but finding one now is likely impossible. How are your fabrication skills? Here's an old thread on the HAMB:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/3-spd-manual-floor-shift-conversion.530470/
It's pretty fiddly but doable.
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By steinauge - 9 Years Ago
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Thank you for the answer rev.
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