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Overdrive not working

Posted By Mortimer452 7 Years Ago
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Dobie
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Yup, sounds like it's a dead soldier. If you open it up and it smells like burnt wiring there's your sign.
Sandbird
Posted 7 Years Ago
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If the solenoid wiring is shorted to ground the 15 amp fuse on the o/d relay would be blown.

FORD DEARBORN
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Greetings to all:  The wire referred to as green is probably a blue wire faded with age/dirt etc..   If that is so, then it will appear to be grounded to the case as you are measuring through a very low (less than one ohm) resistance coil. When the solenoid is  not energized, you are reading through the pull-in coil. No fuse blows because it is a high inductive load energized for a millesecond or two. I would try putting 12V to the solenoid and see what happens. The other wire, orange? should read open when the solenoid is not energized and is grounded to the case only when energized.   Hope this helps, JEFF..............


64F100 57FAIRLANE500
Dobie
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Mortimer452 (9/16/2017)
Thanks for the help so far.
There is definitely something screwy going on.  I cut both wires going to the solenoid to troubleshoot.  Green wire coming out of the solenoid is grounded, I did not try energizing it, because it's grounded, pretty sure it's just going to throw sparks.  Orange wire does nothing when energized, but I'm pretty sure that is expected.  I'm thinking there must be an internal short somewhere inside the solenoid shorting the SOL wire to ground.


The solenoid grounds through its case. If you pull it you can ground the case on the (-) terminal of your battery and touch the blue (or green) wire to the (+) terminal. The armature should extend with quite a bit of verve, shall we say. If you get nothing or a weak snap pull the upper cap and have a look at the points. If they're burnt the solenoid is rebuildable. I've done it myself with some ingenuity and silver solder.

BTW to remove the solenoid you need to turn it 1/4 turn CCW, then pull it straight out. Reverse the procedure to reinstall it.
DANIEL TINDER
Posted 7 Years Ago
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Dobie (9/16/2017)
Van Pelt Sales has new manufacture solenoids, 6V only last I checked. Fifth Avenue Antique Auto also has brand new ones in both voltages. Bring $$. One word of caution: check that the points are adjusted correctly on any solenoid you buy, new or used. The pull in coil points MUST open as soon as the armature fully extends. If the pull in coil remains in the circuit the solenoid will fail in short order due to burnt out windings. They can be rebuilt, there's a guy who advertises in Hemmings Motor News, J. Pinto. I've used him before and am satisfied with his work.




Good to know new/rebuilt units are now readily available (been out of the loop for quite awhile). Of course, most anything can be rebuilt, but I was referring to a DIY owner project. Replacing windings is likely 'over the head' of most shade tree mechanic's abilities. Changing the points/seals/wires/shafts/etc. is not.

6 VOLTS/POS. GRD. NW INDIANA
Dobie
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DANIEL TINDER (9/17/2017)
Dobie (9/16/2017)
Van Pelt Sales has new manufacture solenoids, 6V only last I checked. Fifth Avenue Antique Auto also has brand new ones in both voltages. Bring $$. One word of caution: check that the points are adjusted correctly on any solenoid you buy, new or used. The pull in coil points MUST open as soon as the armature fully extends. If the pull in coil remains in the circuit the solenoid will fail in short order due to burnt out windings. They can be rebuilt, there's a guy who advertises in Hemmings Motor News, J. Pinto. I've used him before and am satisfied with his work.




Good to know new/rebuilt units are now readily available (been out of the loop for quite awhile). Of course, most anything can be rebuilt, but I was referring to a DIY owner project. Replacing windings is likely 'over the head' of most shade tree mechanic's abilities. Changing the points/seals/wires/shafts/etc. is not.


Agree. Rewinding requires specialized equipment most DIYers don't have. A shop that rebuilds DC motors, alternators/generators could probably do it.

Mortimer452
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Thanks again for all the help.

I was able to do some more troubleshooting tonight.  I started tracing wires from the solenoid up to the relay, low and behold, I find a couple barrel connectors partway up wrapped in electrical tape, the blue/orange wires were SWAPPED halfway down, so blue coming out of the relay ended up as orange at the solenoid, and vice versa. Figuring THAT out definitely helped me along.  The whole thing was wired bass-ackwards.

When I put 12V to the blue wire, solenoid clicks and engages.  While engaged, the orange coming out of the solenoid does NOT have ground, the flap connector at the top doesn't come down far enough to contact the plate.  The rod in the center only moves maybe 1/8" or less when the solenoid clicks.

Went for a test drive, 2nd gear past 28mph when I lift off the gas, it slides into OD just like it should.  Kickdown does not work, I can hear it click when I stomp on the gas, but it doesn't downshift, I believe because that ignition kill isn't working (orange wire not grounding when solenoid is engaged).  I may pull it and see if I can remedy this.  

9310alloy
Posted 7 Years Ago
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If I understand you correctly. I take it you are testing the solenoid installed and not on the bench.? You said when you went for a test drive it engaged in and out of overdrive ok. First.. when the solenoid gets energized it pushes the plunger out and puts pressure on the pawl inside the transmission which than waits for the balk ring with the notches to rotate slightly until the pawl engages into a notch and locks the balk ring which of coarse extends the solenoid plunger the rest of the way out and forces the planetary to rotate or now in overdrive. That is why testing on the transmission it's tough to have bulk ring , pawl perfectly aligned because the balk ring naturally rotates as it goes in and out of overdrive. This maybe why your ground out contact is not closing when testing on the car. I would bench test solenoid and I bet you will get more than 1/8" extend and your ground out contact will close. If that works than check the rest of the ground out circuit. Check continuity: orange wire thru the kick down switch normally open contact (so have a helper bottom out or close the kick down switch) and than to the ignition side of the coil should make the circuit. Your kick down switch could be bad or wiring issues. I think you are almost there getting the overdrive to work correctly.
Mike






Mortimer452
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9310alloy (9/23/2017)
If I understand you correctly. I take it you are testing the solenoid installed and not on the bench.? You said when you went for a test drive it engaged in and out of overdrive ok. First.. when the solenoid gets energized it pushes the plunger out and puts pressure on the pawl inside the transmission which than waits for the balk ring with the notches to rotate slightly until the pawl engages into a notch and locks the balk ring which of coarse extends the solenoid plunger the rest of the way out and forces the planetary to rotate or now in overdrive. That is why testing on the transmission it's tough to have bulk ring , pawl perfectly aligned because the balk ring naturally rotates as it goes in and out of overdrive. This maybe why your ground out contact is not closing when testing on the car. I would bench test solenoid and I bet you will get more than 1/8" extend and your ground out contact will close. If that works than check the rest of the ground out circuit. Check continuity: orange wire thru the kick down switch normally open contact (so have a helper bottom out or close the kick down switch) and than to the ignition side of the coil should make the circuit. Your kick down switch could be bad or wiring issues. I think you are almost there getting the overdrive to work correctly.
Mike


Thanks for the info.  I wondered that about the length of travel on the pawl, which is why I went for a test drive, I thought it might need to be in gear & rolling to slip in.  So close!  I'll check the kickdown switch under the pedal tomorrow.



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