How To Tell a Forged Crank from a Cast Crank


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By Oldmics - 10 Years Ago
Dum ass me don't know how to tell the differences.

Can someone explain how to tell the difference.

Think I might have a 312 steel crank

Many thanks,Oldmics
By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago

Easier to show you the difference, I think, than to describe it, John. Short answer... the parting line. Let me explain...


CASTINGS

Metal castings are made in a mold, and most molds have sections that fit together to create a cavity for pouring the molten metal into, to shape it. For Ford y-block cast crankshafts, I think two mold sections that fit together were used to make the mold with the shaped cavity inside. The two mold sections were made of sand conditioned with water and clay.

Where the mold sections fit together, when the metal fills the mold cavity there is a continuous narrow line in the finished casting. The line is referred to as the ‘parting line’,i.e., the point where the mold sections met. Basically, molten metal filled the line where the mold sections came together.

Sooo… look for a narrow line (like a pencil line) usually appearing on the crankshaft counter weights from front to rear.

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FORGINGS

Metal forgings are made in molds, too. The difference is that the metal to be shaped is only heated to make it soft (‘plastic’) so that it can be squeezed or hammered into the desired shape between two shaped metal molds (dies). For complex shapes like a crankshaft, a series of metal molds (dies) are necessary to progressively hammer the metal ingot (chunk) to the new desired shape. Each set of molds (dies) furthers the shaping process to refine the shape as much as possible before machining is required to attain the final shape.

Because the metal being forged is only soft, not liquid, the metal molds (dies) never come completely together in hammering the metal ingot (chunk) to shape. Because there are two molds (dies), there again is a parting line on the crankshaft. In the case of a forged steel y-block 292 crank,the parting line is ½ an inch wide in some places and wider in other places. The parting line is not in a straight line from front to back as it is with the cast crank. One place to look for the wide parting line is on the first throw after the front main bearing. The parting line is in the middle of the outside of the throw.

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Generally, forged parts are stronger than cast parts. The grain structure in a cast metal piece is random. The grain structure in a forged metal piece is designed to flow with the shape of the part in a chain-like manner. Too, the squeezing or hammering of the metal into shape compacts (compresses) the metal grain structure so that it is denser than a cast piece. Per volume, a forging weighs more than a casting.

A forged part costs more to make than a cast part. IF a metal part needs to be of minimal size yet as strong as possible, forging is likely the forming method used… like in making hand tools.


Hope this helps. Smile

By pegleg - 10 Years Ago
In addition to what Charles said, the surface finish of the forging will typically be smoother than a casting. Also the alloys are completely different, the forging is steel, while the casting is grey or nodular iron.
By Hoosier Hurricane - 10 Years Ago
292 forged cranks do not have counterweights adjacent to the center main journal. I would assume that a forged 312 crank also would not have those counterweights.
By Ted - 10 Years Ago

The oem cast crankshaft will have eight counterweights while the factory steel crankshaft has only six counterweights. As John mentions, the steel crankshaft does not have any counterweights at the center main journal.

By aussiebill - 10 Years Ago
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Uploads/Images/e42445bf-eb34-4258-8c94-044d.jpg
By pegleg - 10 Years Ago
Wher was the forged 312 crank used?
By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
AussieBill's picture of the forged crank clearly shows John and Ted's earlier point that there are no center counterweights. The picture also shows how the ends of the counterweights on the forged 292 y-block cranks are rounded.
By aussiebill - 10 Years Ago
Oldmics (2/16/2014)
Dum ass me don't know how to tell the differences.

Can someone explain how to tell the difference.

Think I might have a 312 steel crank

Many thanks,Oldmics


Good luck if you have, been a bit of talk of them existing lately rather than maybe,s. Measure the mains 1st then check the counterweights explaned further along in this post.
By Ted - 10 Years Ago
Oldmics (2/16/2014)
....Think I might have a 312 steel crank.

John. Have you measured the main journal diameters? This would help to verify what you have if the crankshaft is indeed forged steel and not cast iron.

By Oldmics - 10 Years Ago
Crank is still in the engine.

The color differences explained are difficult to ascertain since everything inside is a grey color.

Worst part of this mystery is that I pulled the pan off the engine the night before I left for vacation (in a wonderfully warm place).

So the answer wont be revealed for another 3 weeks once I get home - Sorry gang!

Oldmics Wind chill of 86* here today
By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
Oldmics (2/17/2014)
Crank is still in the engine.

Oldmics Wind chill of 86* here today


Well, it's 6 below here with NO wind chill, but I'll write you anyway, John

WHEN you get home, check the main bearing caps. Letters are on the top surface of the caps between the bolts. EBUs are 292, ECZs are 312. Smile
By Hoosier Hurricane - 10 Years Ago
Frank:

There have been rumors that some Canadian 312 '60 Mercurys had forged cranks. I have never seen documentation or that though.
By pegleg - 10 Years Ago

Oldmics Wind chill of 86* here today[/quote]

I didn't really need to hear that!Ermm
By 314 - 10 Years Ago
john no Canadian 60 mercs had a 312.trucks with 312s did exist but where would you find them today.312 forged cranks are starting to remind me of bigfoot.
By Oldmics - 10 Years Ago
Its an ECZ main capped engine. That much I did inspect.

I knew about the casting lines on a cast unit but also had heard of the differences in the counter weights which I wanted to understand.

Once I get home I will see exactly what I have.

Oldmics
By marvh - 10 Years Ago
The only reason 312's exist in Canadian trucks is that the Ranchero's and Sedan Deliveries are licensed in Canada as a truck not as a car.
marv
By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
From what I can gather, Oldmics, if you've come-up with a forged 312 crank, you can likely advertise viewing hours with a donation required for the privilege.

After the viewing hours have run their course, the crank could be offered on eBay.

Using some old barn wood, square nails and the lettering / numbering stencils I've got, we could make-up an 'original' FoMoCo shipping box and label it with the part number CITE 6303 $FX$ I'm not sure what the eBay reserve should be set at...

I bet it would cause some crazy bidding... and you could retire to the land of 86 degree wind chills that you're enduring today. Rolleyes
By Oldmics - 10 Years Ago
Have to stamp XE on it in a few places for the premium loot factor.

While I fully anticipate it to be a cast unit , it had a different look to it than I have previously seen in many other 312 engines that I have disassembled.

It is a look that I couldn't quite place,as in maybe a different amount of counterweights.

If its a steel unit my preference would be to build a seriously super engine. Not sure what I really will do BUT no sense in counting any chickens before they hatch.

I"ll post up the final verdict

Oldmics


By aussiebill - 10 Years Ago
Oldmics (2/17/2014)
Have to stamp XE on it in a few places for the premium loot factor.

While I fully anticipate it to be a cast unit , it had a different look to it than I have previously seen in many other 312 engines that I have disassembled.

It is a look that I couldn't quite place,as in maybe a different amount of counterweights.

If its a steel unit my preference would be to build a seriously super engine. Not sure what I really will do BUT no sense in counting any chickens before they hatch.

I"ll post up the final verdict

Oldmics



Go back to earlier posts here and you may be a bit clearer on the subject.