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By slick56 - 11 Years Ago
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found this article in Hemmings re. oil for older engines.
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2012/10/18/tech-101-zinc-in-oil-and-its-effects-on-older-engines/
got me thinking...
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By ian57tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Try the Penrite web site, they supply a lot of information on their oils and I find it very informative and I found their tech people very helpful. Most of their oils have good levels of zinc and phosphorus. For example their HPR15 oil (listed as a 15w-60)shows when converted from the percentages they are listed in, to have 1140ppm of zinc and 1040ppm of phosphorus, which is plenty except for during run in period which as the article suggests should be over 1200ppm.
A couple of years back I spent a bit of time looking at this to get a better understanding of what is best for my engines. A couple of points, the numbers on the container are only a rough guide and different manufactures will have different viscosities in for example a20w-50. The viscosity index is a good number to look at as that indicates how much it thins out when heated or thickens when cooled which ever way you want to look at it, the higher the number the better/more stable the viscosity.
Yes I do like Penrite, as it is a high quality product that is locally made and it is readily available off the shelf at a fair price. They also do a lot of specialty oils for older engine applications. Check out their site.
I think the lack of zinc and phosphorus is more an issue with the regular oils over in the USA than here, but I'm not sure of the reason for that.
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By slick56 - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Ian, i already use Penrite, i nave just never given a thought to the additives until a mate sent m.e the article. Never too old to learn...
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By The Master Cylinder - 11 Years Ago
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ian57tbird (10/29/2013)
I think the lack of zinc and phosphorus is more an issue with the regular oils over in the USA than here, but I'm not sure of the reason for that.
In a word... Pollution
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By Dobie Gillis - 11 Years Ago
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slick56 (10/29/2013)
Thanks Ian, i already use Penrite, i nave just never given a thought to the additives until a mate sent m.e the article. Never too old to learn....
Zinc eventually kills catalytic converters
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By ian57tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Penrite's heavier HPR oils have even higher levels, around 1500ppm-1600ppm, but if you get close to freezing they may start to get a bit heavy. Their premium oils are about the ultimate and their 5w-60 having a viscosity index of 195 which is probably not matched by any other brand, but you pay for it.
New cars have to meet the highest emission standard but we don't have to smog cars here, and I hope it never happens as I know how much of a hassle it is over there. So if the catalytic converter doesn't work properly late it doesn't get detected. Due to population we only have about 8% of vehicles on the road as compared to the U.S for a similar land mass so we're never going to catch up to you guys on pollution. I think your letting the team down a bit though, China is now the biggest polluter, so you're going to have to work harder to get back into first place.:
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By paul2748 - 11 Years Ago
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I didn't read the whole thing, but the last paragraph is wrong. The SJ diesel 15/40 has enough zddp to satisfy all but the most modified (performance) flat tappet engines. 1100 ppm or so, at least Rotella is
The original oils available back in the 50 and 60's were far below 1100 ppm. Gil Baumgartner, a noted Tbird restorer and expert had a lab do a test on some 60's oil and the oil was way below 1100 ppm.
This subject has been beat to death. Ted Eaton has consistantly said that any oil with a ratng of 40 or over has enough zddp for any Y block and most other engines.
High performance engines are another matter.
Never use an oil marked "For Auto Use only." or something to that effect. Its roller engine oil.
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By ian57tbird - 11 Years Ago
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The diesel oils are really designed for diesels. There additives my not be idea for gas engines. I believe for example they have a very high detergent level which is not needed for gas engines, not sure if that has a detrimental effect.
"I didn't read the whole thing, but the last paragraph is wrong." (don't know how to put it a blue box.)
Are you saying your already first place?
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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I think Ted has said that he has seen more wear with diesel oils in engines known to have used only diesel oil as compared to engines running gasoline engine oil.
When there are plenty of options for gasoline engine oil, I see no sense in using oil designed for a diesel. The apropriate oils are getting kinda hard to find locally, but if you make it a habbit to look in the oil section every time you're at the parts store, you'll usually find what you need. Buy it a case at a time when you find it, and if you really need it, and you'll have plenty of stock. You can order them all day long online.
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By The Master Cylinder - 11 Years Ago
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charliemccraney (10/31/2013)
I think Ted has said that he has seen more wear with diesel oils in engines known to have used only diesel oil as compared to engines running gasoline engine oil.
That's interesting... I know a guy that swore by using diesel oil (Chevron Delo 400) in all his cars. We all had to admit his engines where clean inside. Thing was he seemed to have more flat cam problems than anyone we knew. What you quoted Ted saying above explains some things. By the way this was long before the ZDDP scare ever happened...
charliemccraney (10/31/2013)
When there are plenty of options for gasoline engine oil...
Just out of curiosity what do we consider "options for gasoline engines" these days? Not just Charlie, I'm wondering what others use.
I've been using Castrol 20/50 for years now with no problems. I have been adding a bottle of ZDDP at every other oil change since the ZDDP scare. 
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By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
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Ted can verify, but I think it is any SM single viscosity or dual viscosity above 30, 10w40, 20w50, etc and any SM oils identified as racing or high mileage. Again, lot's of options. Some oils even have something like for older engines or for flat tappet engines on the bottle.
Your castrol 20w50 should be just fine with no additive. I don't know, but often, too much of a good thing is bad. I'd find out if there is such a thing as too much zddp with the additive. I use valvoline VR1 and if I can't find that, regular Valvoline. 20w50 for both, no additive.
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By Ted - 11 Years Ago
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As Charlie brings up, too much ZDDP creates a situation called ‘zinc overloading’. The excess of zinc can cause pitting on the cam lobes which then leads to premature cam wear. . But regarding the rest of this conversation, I’ll try to make this as politically correct as possible but the zinc reduction mandate in the oils technically belongs in the same category as ethanol laden gasoline. jmo. . Unfortunately the U.S. has some over-zealous politicians that took it upon themselves to mandate the reduction in zinc/phosphorus content without examining existing recent data regarding the actual residuals that gets past the piston rings. This reduction was part of the mandate to increase the life span of the catalytic converters. It’s actually not the zinc that’s an issue but the phosphorus which is attracted to high heat sources and the zinc simply follows and transplants itself on those high heat (friction) locations. Without the phosphorus content in the oil, the zinc doesn’t work. It is the phosphorus that’s considered to be a detriment to the catalytic converters and as such, the ZDDP content in the oils being used by the new car manufacturers has been reduced. With the latest API-SN oil classification, the gasoline engine rated oils remained unchanged but the diesel oils have also gone through a zinc content reduction. Reading in detail the latest API bulletin will explain which oils have what in regards to zinc/phosphorus contents. With oil control as good as it is on the modern cars, reducing the zinc/phosphorus content in the oil is a bit of overkill. . Here’s a link to a past thread regarding oils http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost76853.aspx
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By ian57tbird - 11 Years Ago
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I notice that some of the high grade oil (and expensive) over here has zinc + boron listed as the main anti-wear additives. What are your thoughts on that?
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/10%20TENTHS%20PREMIUM%205%20SEPTEMBER%202013.pdf
Here is a link to their site.
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