|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
I have a 1956 ford tudor that I will be running a 292/fordo in and I'm wanting to use the stock shift rod, kickdown rod, belcrank bracket and all original linkages. Is this possible even with a 3x2? Wouldn't I just have to modify a new rod that comes off of the bellcrank to the progressive linkage?
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
|
What carb do you have now? Or what carb is the linkage for? If it's for the stock '56 two barrel you shouldn't have too much trouble connecting to the Primary (center) carb and running progressive to the secondary (outer) carbs.
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
The thing is I have nothing. I will be buying a complete kit similar to the picture but the pictured set is a 57 and what I'm getting is from a 56 and from a stock 4 bbl. Will I have a whole lot of trouble? Or will itall work and just have to make a new rod going to the primary carb thwn the progressive linkage will take care of the rest?
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
Two barrel and four barrel linkage is different and I think that will cause you problems trying to connect four barrel linkage to a two barrel. I believe the stock '56 two and four barrels linkage is on opposite sides of the carbs for one.
Also hard to answer your question without more info i.e. what carbs are you planning on using?
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Everything is completely different? As for the carbs...undecided. either holley 94's or stromberg 97s
|
|
By Daniel Jessup - 12 Years Ago
|
If you are going to run 3 deuces and use Ford's 2 barrel carbs from the 50's, they all had their linkage hook ups on the passenger side. 4 Barrels were on the driver's side. That is the difference.
If I were going to run 3 deuces like what you want to do, I would run the original 55/56 Ford 2 barrel Fordomatic linkage setup and purchase a 3 deuce carb linkage from Honest Charley's or from Speedway motors. Your only issue is going to be your intake manifold... does it have the bosses to bolt down an original 55/56 Ford 2 barrel bellcrank? If not, you will have to rig up something like you are going to do with the 4 barrel bellcrank on the drivers' side. This would mean that you would need longer butterfly shafts for each carb and run your carb linkage from those points on the driver's side.
If you google y block and 3 deuces, you may be able to see some images of what other guys have done.
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
One of my questions is what exactly is different from the 2bbl linkage and the 4bbl linkage? Is the bell crank and back the same and anything after the bellcrank forwards towards the carb different?
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
I don't have the two in front of me to compare but I think the trans kick down is different also. In the '55 FOM manual it shows and describes different adjustment procedures. I don't have a '56 manual but I believe they are similar.
I'm going from memory here because as I stated I don't have the two to compare. Someone please correct me if I'm incorrect.
I do know that the Edelbrock manifolds have the correct bosses to mount the two barrel linkage. I'm pretty sure the Offy has them also, but I would recommend NOT using an Offy manifold.
Just my opinion and worth about what you paid me for it...
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
I'm sticking to only edelbrock manifolds due to better flow and look 10 times better and I have matching valve covers 
Anyone else here know the differences on the bellcrank brackets? I need the best stock setup that I can convert to work with a 3x2.
|
|
By skygazer - 12 Years Ago
|
I assume you want to use a progressive linkage on the 3x2, which will act much the same as mechanical secondaries on a 4V. Not a problem with a manual transmission, but kind of tricky with an automatic. I think there is a good reason that the stock 4V setup had vacuum secondaries. I believe that the '63 M-code 390 FE t-bird 3x2 had "vacuum secondaries" as well.
Anyone have any success or tips running mechanical secondaries with a Fordomatic? I'd think the engine would always bog like crazy at low speed... at least until the transmission downshifts. Any special hints on setting up the "kickdown rod" so this doesn't happen, yet doesn't always shift down at full throttle?
|
|
By skygazer - 12 Years Ago
|
|
skygazer (10/29/2013)
... I believe that the '63 M-code 390 FE t-bird 3x2 had "vacuum secondaries" as well.
I may be wrong. This thread indicates that only Mercury '58 tripowers had vacuum secondaries, and all of the FE tripowers were mechanical.
So, anyone have experience with a tripower on a y-block with a fordomatic?
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I havent really seen anyone run a 3x2 with a fordo. This is what I'm trying to find out since this is what I will run on my car
|
|
By skygazer - 12 Years Ago
|
I've considered a tripower as well. I'm worried that with a fordomatic, the engine will bog horribly when I floor the throttle... at least until the transmission downshifts.
Mercurys, Oldses, Vettes, Pontiacs and MOPARs all had tripowers (or "6 packs") with vacuum secondaries, at least at some point in time.
Then again if the FE birds (all automatics, AFIK) with tripowers had mechanical linkages, perhaps it's not so bad...
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Thats the thing.....If those big blocks had tri powers and autos that didnt bog im sure it will be fine. Just need to be adjusted correctly
|
|
By Daniel Jessup - 12 Years Ago
|
If you are using the 2 barrels like the 94's (ECG and EBU style) from the mid-fifties then I would think to get "vacuum secondaries" (meaning that the two end carbs only come in when engine vacuum demands it) you are going to have to rig up some type of a wild triple carb linkage setup that I have never laid eyes on. I am positive that the 58 Merc would have used those 2300 style 2 barrel carbs... A MUCH DIFFERENT ANIMAL than the mid-fifties 3 bolt flange carbs, so I have no idea if that linkage assembly would work.
I have seen plenty of 3 deuce setups on a 55 or 56 that run an original Fordomatic transmission. However, the ones I have seen use the 2 barrel bellcrank that attaches to the two hole bosses that are almost directly in line with the carb as you look at it from the center. The bellcrank in your original photo is one that is used "offset" of the carburetor and to the driver's side. The teapot carbs and almost all 4 barrels are actuated this way.
EDIT:
Take a look at the following photo of Speedway's 3 deuce linkage. If you run 94's this is what you need...
It can be hooked up as progressive or all out with the butterfly shafts. They actually took this photo with the center pivot down instead of up like it is supposed to be so the pivot holes would just about line up all the way through three carbs.
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
So you are saying if I find an original 2bbla bellcrank it should work just fine?
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Yeah it definitely has to be progressive linkage. I found the whole set up like I said but its from a v8 4bbl fordo car. I would like to know what all from the linkages are the same from the 4 and 2 barrel carbs?
|
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I havn't set up a 3 deuce for a long time but can't you use the stock bellcrank with a rod to the center carb? If the carb linkage setup is on the passenger side wouldn't the stock 2bbl unit work? Chuck
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
|
MoonShadow (10/30/2013)
I havn't set up a 3 deuce for a long time but can't you use the stock bellcrank with a rod to the center carb? If the carb linkage setup is on the passenger side wouldn't the stock 2bbl unit work? Chuck
Chuck, you are correct. Problem is the OP want to use the Four barrel bell crank. Don't think it will work since the rod is on the drivers side of the carb. Already mentioned that a few post back.
I have extended throttle shafts on my 97's so everything mounted on the drivers side. You might be able to use the four barrel bell crank if you do that. I can't say for sure. I use a Lokar Cable. Also use a Lokar Cable on the kickdown for my C-4.
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Well I wouldn't mind using the 2bbl set uo if I can find one. Any leads?
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
Well I found this in my shed
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
I also found these kick down rods. How do I know which is the right one?
|
|
By Daniel Jessup - 12 Years Ago
|
The top rod is a SHIFT linkage rod.
The middle rod is a kickdown rod but it has no bracket for the clevis pin attachment.
The 3rd rod at the bottom is the correct rod for a 55/56 ford. In 1957, Ford changed the style of clevis attachment where the pin would go through a "fork" shaped bracket that was on the threaded rod. This correct rod in the photo should attach to the end of your bellcrank in the photo and a cotter pin can be used to keep the bracket in place on the bellcrank.
EDIT:
Once you get it hooked up, there is a simple "baseline" procedure from the Fomoco 55 or 56 Ford manual. Basically it involves lining up the two holes on the driver's side of your pictured bracket, placing a pin in those holes, and then putting the bracket on the top of the kickdown road in a particular distance on the rod. Hook it up, drive the car, and then adjust up or down as needed for your transmission to drop in the lower gear on demand of the accelerator pedal.
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
So you are saying if I want to run all the factory fordo brackets and what not with a 3x2 I have to use this style linkage?( The one pictured on top of the cruiser skirts) Is this the bellcrank or does this mount on the firewall?
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
The bellcrank mounts to the intake. The Edelbrock 553 manifold (designed for '55-56) has the bosses for it.
The 573 manifold (designed for '57 up) does not.
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
See that's the problem. I am not running a 272 and that's what the 553 is for, they have small ports. In running a 292 with the big ports which call for the 573
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
Not sure that's a problem... I'm running a port matched 553 on my 318" with 'G' heads and I believe Tim's '30 has a 553. 
Mine
Tim's
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I have done some research and have been told that the ports are smaller
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
Yes they are. Here is a Dyno test comparison that Ted did a while ago (Thanks Ted). As you can see the 573 made ~9 more hp than the 553. Which places it in 2nd place with all the 3x2 manifolds.
If you are looking for MAX hp your going in the wrong direction. Get a Mummert 4 barrel manifold with your choice of Holley or Edelbrock carb...
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Oops, forgot to add the link. For your reading enjoyment. 3x2 Intake Manifold Testing
|
|
By lowrider - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I ran a 3x2 set-up on my 56 Ford w/Fordomatic waaay back in 66. Since the car was completely stock when I got it the linkage bolted to the back of the intake manifold like some of your pictures show. Only problems I had was finding 3x2 linkage (ended up using pieces of my old Erector set) and adjusting the throttle linkage to the Fordo. Once I got that squared away it ran fine. Find a 55/56 2v w/Fordo linkage and you should be fine.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I've made a lot of throttle rods from threaded rod with automotive linkage pieces. All you need is the one from the stock type bellcrank to the center carb. Shouldn't be hard to figure out. If carb linkage is on the passenger side you need the back of intake 2 bbl linkage. If on the drivers side the regular 4 bbl bellcrank. Chuck
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I am not going for a monster of a motor. The car is more of a cruiser and more show then anything but I want it to be able to get up and go aswell.
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
Ok, so everything from a 2v and 4v are totally different?
The bif worry I have is that I wamt to run the 573 with the big ports and the 573 doesn't have the 272 bellcrank mounting holes ok n the back side of the intake like the earlier y block.
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
More info or pics would be greatly appreciated.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
The key is now the center carb. Is the long butterfly/throttle shaft on the drivers or passenger side? They used to sell replacement shafts for them but that was long ago. You can bolt down the 4bbl style bellcraknon either intake. I've seen setups with the main throttle linkage going to the drivers side and the progressive linkage on the passenger side of the front and rear carbs.
The parts you picture should do the trick. You can find articles on here about properly adjusting the kickdown. Once the bellcrank is fixed in the adjustment position you can simply hold the different rods up and see which fits and clears best. The right one should fit on the transmission and have adjustment available at bellcrank end. Once properly adjusted the kick down dosen't know what carb its connected to. Chuck
This old shaft kit included new shafts to run out either side.
|
|
By The Master Cylinder - 12 Years Ago
|
|
The Master Cylinder (10/30/2013)
I have extended throttle shafts on my 97's so everything mounted on the drivers side. You might be able to use the four barrel bell crank if you do that. I can't say for sure. I use a Lokar Cable. Also use a Lokar Cable on the kickdown for my C-4.
Extended throttle shafts are still available for both 97's and 94's...
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
What I read here and understanding is that it would be much easier using a 2v bellcrank anf linkage but if I score a 4v set up it should work aswell just a lot more work.
|
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
|
For the 2bbl linkage you would need the smaller manifold with the bolts across the back. I think the later, drivers side bellcrank, works 2bbl or 4bbl setup. Chuck
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
Chuck,
If the 4v bellcrank will work for the 2v then everything else from the 4v should work too?
|
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Everything from the bellcrank back will be the same. I think only the rod to the carburetor would be different. Chuck
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
So you are saying everything upto or right before the bellcrank will be the same? They say the linkage switches different sides for either 2v or 4v
|
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
|
The early 2bbl linkage went across the back of the intake. Like the small one you picture. The later linkages were all on the drivers side using the two stands to hold them. In the later applications the bellcrank, as far as I know, back is all generally the same. There are various shapes of kick down rods out there but they only need to clear the exhaust and firewall and be long enough to hook at both the transmission and the bellcrank. Somewhere on this site are directions for setting up the kickdown. One lesson I learned is that the springs on the bellcrank have to be original or at least the same length and tension. A lot of people just grab a spring out of their junk box that will fit and have a fit getting the kickdown to work correctly. If you can get the whole setup with the springs you will be ahead. The larger port manifold that you want to use will need the later linkage anyway. Chuck
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Chuck I do want to use the larger ported intake. So you are sayibg just run all of the 57and up bellcrank or the whole set up?
|
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Definately the 57 up system. Do you have the linkage for the carbs as yet? Chuck
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Linkage as the progressive linkage or the factory adjustable linkage?
|
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Either one. Chuck
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
I don't have any linkage yet.
|
|
By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
|
Fomoco: To your remark that you really want to run a 573 rather than a 553. If you can find a 573 at a $ you can live with, fine. But, as pointed out, for street use the 553 on a 292 will be fine. In fact Ted's later evaluation on torque, shows the 553 is better up to 3500 rpm. And when you compare the overall point totals, the 553 scores about 98 percent of the later intake & may be available at a lower $..
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Pf Arcand, is the 573 still being made or do I need to score a used one?
|
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
|
56 ford custom (11/1/2013)
Pf Arcand, is the 573 still being made or do I need to score a used one?
The 573's as well as any other 3X2 intakes for the Y haven't been available 'new' for a good number of years now. Used it is.
.
Here is the link to the thread showing the low end torque values for the various 3X2 intakes. The small runner intakes do make for better everyday drivers at the expense of some upper rpm horsepower.
.http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost40720.aspx
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
|
Ted, I think the only reason why I was worried about not using the 553 is because of the rear bellcrank mount for the early 2v style. Now that it has been clarified that I can use the later style fir 4v and just alter the shafts..well I guess that means I can run the 573 and no issues I suppose
|
|
By 56 ford custom - 12 Years Ago
|
Alright fellas I ripped through all of my stash and found all of this. What parts do I need? There are two different styles of firewall/throttke linkage, which is correct?
|
|
By bergmanj - 7 Years Ago
|
Folks, I know that this is OLD; but, it was the only reference I could find for my question: I've a ECZ-B manifold on the engine in my '55 Crown and can't find the throttle bellcrank part that mounts to the manifold.
Can anyone point me to drawings, part numbers, suppliers, etc., for me to obtain one. It's the angular-looking two-hole bracket that bolts toward the rear driver's side on top of the intake manifold. It shows in the first photo in this post.
Thanks, JLB
|
|
By bergmanj - 7 Years Ago
|
|
P. S: It's the bracket at the very bottom of the LAST photo posted. JLB
|
|
By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
|
bergmanj (10/28/2018)
P. S: It's the bracket at the very bottom of the LAST photo posted. JLB
Check out Ebay Item # 263961320872. I think that is for Automatic Transmission. Also a NOS One 222321995464.
|
|
By Florida_Phil - 7 Years Ago
|
Does anyone know if a 3/2 setup with fit under the hood of a 1955 Thunderbird?
|
|
By KULTULZ - 7 Years Ago
|
EYE CANDY-
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/sold-ford-y-block-272-292-312-3x2-edelbrock-holley-553-ecg-intake-manifold.1042224/
|
|
By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
|
If You go further into His Information He builds various multi-Carb Setups and then sells them. I think its a "Hobby" for Him. He has sold some very nice Setups. All seem to be $1500.00 USD delivered anywhere in N. America. I have seen His Items on Ebay once in awhile. I don't know where He finds the Various Intakes for these multi Carb Installations. Nice workmanship on all of them.
|
|
By miker - 7 Years Ago
|
|
Phil, years ago I had on Offy manifold on my 55 bird. IIRC, I had to cut the rear element down about a 1/4 inch for hood clearance. I was using a little louvered air cleaner, but probably the same element size as the picture K posted. Ford 94 carbs. I could have milled the rear flange down, but I got away with the cheap fix.
|
|
By paul2748 - 7 Years Ago
|
Generally not without some modification somewhere. At a Tbird show I saw such a set up on an early Bird and asked the guy what he did to make everything fit. He said he milled the intake, like Miker mentioned.
Florida_Phil (10/29/2018)
Does anyone know if a 3/2 setup with fit under the hood of a 1955 Thunderbird?
|