|
By MarkMontereyBay - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Thinking ahead to the next big project. I have gathered up most of the Tbird parts for a T-5 conversion; bell housing, clutch linkage, brake and clutch pedal assembly, etc. Plan on using Mummerts conversion kit. Has anyone used a hydraulic clutch recently and if so how difficult is it to do? Also are there any clearance issues with Sanderson headers and the stock clutch linkage?
|
|
By Rono - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Mark; I talked to a friend of mine about setting up a hyd clutch for my blown stroker motor build. He advised me to stay away from the hyd. throw out bearings and instead, he used a Wilwood hyd slave cylinder that he mounted on an angled bracket running parallel to his Tremec that bolted to the bellhousing (57 Custom 300) with a tab he fabricated. He sent me some pictures of what the set-up looks like; 
Rono
|
|
By MarkMontereyBay - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Ron, I remember having to remove the trans on early Aerostars to replace leaking internal hydraulic T bearings. Not a good option. The tab looks like a straight forward fabrication but I am curious about the pedal action to the clutch master cylinder. Plus easy to service if needed. Are you using a stock pedal assembly?
|
|
By Rono - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Mark; My friend used the stock brake/clutch pedal assembly, but just modified it slightly. I haven't done anything yet because I'm planning on putting my motor in a 37 Ford coupe with a custom chassis. Here are some additional pictures of his set-up;   Rono
|
|
By MarkMontereyBay - 11 Years Ago
|
Ron, you have me thinking this might be easier than I first thought. I have been looking at these Wilwood parts along with the positioning of the clutch push rod shown in the photos you posted. Looks like he welded a pivot on the outside of the clutch pedal for the master cylinder push rod.
http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderList.aspx?minorname=Integral%20Reservoir%20Compact%20Master%20Cylinder
http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderList.aspx?minorname=Slave%20Cylinder
|
|
By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Mark and Rono, I will be putting a hydraulic clutch set up in my 55 Fairlane later this year along with a Tremac T5. I have the Modern Driveline adapter. If either of you come up with the part numbers for compatible master cylinders and slave cylinders it would be appreciated. Some of the Mustang forums have articles on hydraulic clutch set ups. One has a clutch pedal modification similar to the one pictured in your (Rono) post. Rono I see that your friend used a pull type slave. I have seen some examples where a puh type is mounted to the bell housing. Wonder if one type works better than the other?
|
|
By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Speedway Motors have a bunch of master and slave cylinders at what appears to be better prices.
|
|
By Rono - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Right...my friend (Paul) used a pull type slave cylinder. Here's another picture of the remote reservoir he used next to his brake booster. Kind of cramped. but he got it in there.  Rono
|
|
By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
|
|
I bet you could use a modified truck bellhousing as the "adapter" and then you can use the truck slave cylinder. Maybe you'd have to cut off the mounting ears.
|
|
By MarkMontereyBay - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Ron, Yikes...that is about as close a fit as possible. Changing a leaky valve cover gasket going to be a chore. I am using manual front disc/drum rear master cylinder so there is enough room (no booster) for the second small clutch master cylinder on the Tbird. Already got the bellhousing (passenger car) and stuff mostly from Carl for use with Mummert's kit. Got a full Tbird clutch/brake pedal assembly for a Tbird also. I checked Speedway and their prices for the Wilwood stuff is a little cheaper. It always boils down to shipping on these things. I hope to have the Granada disc brake swap done next week some time.
|
|
By Rono - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Mark; I agree with you about the booster and valve cover clearence on my friends car. I don't know what he was thinking. The motor is a 390 (I think) so maybe they don't have to be lifted as high to come off the heads. Are you doing the Granada conversion with "Drop & Stop" spindles and parts or are you making up your own? The new owner of Drop and Stop has a few sets of braided stainless brake lines if you want to upgrade from the rubber ones. I bought a set because my rubber lines were chafing on the frame a bit. Rono
|
|
By MarkMontereyBay - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Ron, I bought used spindles, etc. and reamed them myself. Braided lines seem like a good upgrade. I have Mustang II/Pinto hoses now that fit well. Funny how all those folks using Pinto front ends don't want to talk about it. I have also had good luck with Poly-Armor bendable brake lines that can be formed by hand. Used those on my Galaxie. I need to come up with some thread size compatible banjo fittings and lines to go from the master cylinder to the combo valve and then to the distribution points. Sorting out the fitting sizes and threads is not my strong suit. For the hydraulic clutch, I think the Wilwood slave and master clutch cylinder is very doable but need to make a clean and organized installation plan. Instead of welding a clutch pedal pivot to the clutch pedal arm I may drill and tap it instead using a shoulder bolt.
|
|
By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
|
I have the Drop em & stop em brakes and spindles and the Borgeson power steering, hence the need for a hydraulic clutch.
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/transmission-articles/481776-hydraulic-clutch-classic-ford.html
This is a post from a Mustang site that shows some of the things that they have done. In a couple of the videos you will see that the M/C is mounted inside the car. In one case on top of the clutch/brake pedal box. I don't know if that's possible on our cars.
Rono, is your friend still building his car or has he tried out the hydraulic clutch yet? Also I see that he shortened the clutch release leave and mounted the slave cylinder pull rod close to where it enters the bell housing. It would be good to know how much throw on the slave cylinder is needed and how short the clutch release lever should be.
Charlie, I was told that the master cylinder and slave cylinder from a later pickup could be used, LMC truck carries these parts for '57-60 trucks. It would be nice to see a picture of both the slave cylinder mounting on a truck and also how the truck clutch pedal looks compared to a car and the relationship between the truck clutch pedal and the M/C.
|
|
By Rono - 11 Years Ago
|
I know that my friend Paul is still working on his 57 Custom 300 so I doubt if he has actually tested the clutch. I can ask him why he cut down the release fork. Rono
|
|
By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks Rono, probably so that he would get the correct amount of movement in the clutch release arm. If it works for him it would be nice to know the dimension.
|
|
By MarkMontereyBay - 11 Years Ago
|
I like this set up. With some detailing it could look good.
http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/attachments/transmission-articles/8980d1248734830-hydraulic-clutch-classic-ford-clutchpedalbracket.jpg
|
|
By Rono - 11 Years Ago
|
|
My friend Paul said that the clutch fork on his set-up is the stock length. It was not cut shoter. Probably just a different shape than the Y Block clutch forks. Rono
|
|
By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks Rono, I thought about that and remembered you said it was not a y-block.
|
|
By ctfortner - 11 Years Ago
|
Hey all, kinda funny I ran across this. This picture is mine, how I mounted mine in my 56. I dont have a y-block, but I was out here searching for power steering using the granada stuff and ran across this thread. I am running a 347 stroker in mine (302 block) and a tko 600 trans, basically the same as a tremec 3550 but beefier. I dont know if its of interest to you since we are using different engines and trans, but if so I can tell yall what I did.
|
|
By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks for the post. I for one would like to know all about it. What M/C and slave cylinder did you use?
|
|
By ctfortner - 11 Years Ago
|
I ended up buying a setup from this guy. He makes the brackets to fit several different trans. He sells them and also the slave cylinder so I got both from him. Back then they were $110 for the bracket and slave and pretty much a bolt on for my tko trans.
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/backdraft-racing/92150-new-slave-cylinder-bracket-bdr-spf.html
I remember the bellhousing being used made a difference to, some aftermarkets got in the way. Factory aluminum worked and I know quicktime bellhousings worked great to.
I am using a wilwood master (remote reservoir type), 3/4 bore. You can either buy the expensive Wilwood reservoir or get a $2 like I did from a scrap yard. I used a clutch reservoir from 1993 - 1994 Ford Ranger Clutch Master Cylinder for V6-245ci 4.0L. Basically just went looking under hoods until I saw a small reservoir I wanted. You can see the small reservoir mounted to the firewall
Then I used the above slave and bracket.
I am using a longacre hyd. clutch line kit, this one exactly http://www.summitracing.com/parts/lng-28050
The fun part was bleeding it. Man that was something else.
I have not talked to the bracket guy since 2010, not sure if he still does them or not.
So in a nutshell I bought the bracket/slave cyl from Bill, got a longacre line kit, a junkyard fluid reservoir (small one) and a Wilwood master cyl.
Drilled a hole in the firewall and mounted the master where I had room. Easiest way to attach to clutch pedal seemed to be by the picture below. Will clean this up, it was a prototype that has worked well, and not visible to anyone anyway.
Mounted the small reservoir to the firewall and added a hose barb fitting to it for the rubber line.
Installed the bracket, mounted the slave cylinder, adjusted the slave with the trans fork per the instructions, started the bleeding process. it took a while to figure out the adjustment on the fork, and the bleeding process. Finally got it figured out, works great!
As for the slave cyl, the part # for it is a Wagner F124279. it fits a number of 90's Isuzu pickups. So if you have to make your own bracket for your application, you could try getting one of these slaves and determine a bracket design that would mount it correctly to operate the clutch fork.
If your going to run a T5, have a look at these for setups and brackets
http://home.bresnan.net/~dazed/test#3
http://www.rosehillperformanceparts.com/Products_Page.htm#:-CNC 305 Push Style Slave Cylinder:-
http://midnightdsigns.com/Mustang/HYD%20Clutch.htm
|
|
By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks CT, I'll check this all out.
|
|
By MarkMontereyBay - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks from me also. Good photos, part numbers and parts sources go a long way to making this job easier.
|
|
By RB35 - 11 Years Ago
|
|
Just a heads up. I got a Ford truck (1960?) slave that bolts right to the block. Down side is my clutch m/c is 3/4" bore, the truck slave is 1". This is a y-block in a Model A and the pedal ass'y is from ECI in Conn. His m/c has horizontal bolt pattern, most others are a vert. pattern. There may be enough meat to redrill, but I'm going to try this set up first to see if the arm will move enough. Would be nice to have the lesser pedal pressure with an 11" clutch. RB
|
|
By charliemccraney - 11 Years Ago
|
|
The truck slave mounts to the truck bellhousing not the block.
|
|
By John Mummert - 11 Years Ago
|
One of the difficulties he ran across in bleeding the system might come from mounting the mastercylinder on its side. The air bubbles will stay at the top and not get to the fittings and flow out to the bleeder on the slave.Although the truck slave mounted to the block there are 2 bosses on the block fairly close to the same location. A simple bracket could be made to mount a truck slave if you want it to push.
A truck bellhousing is about 3/4" deeper than a car and that will cause problems with the input shaft length unless you use a 94 or later T-5
|