By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
I have some old G heads and I can't get them to hold compression. Since I have neither the shop, the knowledge, or the inclination to try to post them, I am thinking about having them posted. Any idea what that would cost or is it even cost effective? If that won't work I guess I will search for another set.
|
By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
|
Unposted heads should be perfectly fine for most street applications. A normal displacement Y with flat top pistons will not have too much compression for them. How much compression are you talking about?
|
By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
I am probably around 9.3 with domed pistons. I thought I could get away with these heads but it is not happening.
|
By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
|
I'd expect 9.3 to be well within the limits. That's about what I'm running, unposted with no issues yet. Make sure there are no other problems, like incorrect or worn out head bolts or warped deck surfaces, excessively milled heads, etc. Are you certain the compression is not being lost elsewhere, rings, valves?
Here is some reading material. It looks like it's pretty simple to achieve at home. Show the procedure outlined in the link to a few local machine shops to see what they'd charge. I don't know what it will cost but it should be far less than acquiring a set of posted heads and having them built.
http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic57138-3-1.aspx?
|
By LordMrFord - 12 Years Ago
|
If non-posted heads can hold 1.5 bar of boost in dragster, those might work well in street driven Y also.
|
By Hollow Head - 12 Years Ago
|
In reality, we drove that 8.723 with ECZ-C heads with 21 psi of boost and blew a head gasket. With 10-14 psi there was no problems, so I really don't think non posted heads are your problem. Just make sure your decks and heads are straight.
|
By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
Everything in this motor is new and includes ARP headbolts. I have the heads off now, but have not been able to measure them, but I suspect that they have been milled too far.
|
By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
Another indicator for me is the fact that the heads are leaking at the points that Ford saw and added the posts.
|
By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
|
Did you have the heads checked for flatness? There are several ways to post your existing heads. One method is to drill a hole through the head at the post location, thread the hole top and bottom and screw in some 1/2" threaded rod. The head is then milled smooth on the bottom. Another way I was told was to drill through the top only and screw in some threaded rod tight against the bottom surface the check for flat. The top area will need cleaned up also. Seems simple enough. I'm sure John F. And Ted E. can get more precise on this fix. Chuck
|
By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
I am going to measure the heads and see just how much they have been cut. I have printed the whole sequence from this site so if I go that ways will have something to show the machinist.
|
By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
|
Cactus: Are you sure that you have the correct length bolts in the right postions? Or maybe a couple of bolts are bottomed out?
|
By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
Bolts were in proper holes, but I did not know that bolts could bottom out. That is something I will check.
|
By ejstith - 12 Years Ago
|
If one was shopping for factory posted heads what would one look for?
|
By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
Check John Mummert's Y Block site for a complete list and description of heads.
|
By Doug T - 12 Years Ago
|
Jan,
Try to get a handle on Bill Coleman who was a co owner of Coleman Bros Speed shop on Rt 1 in Bowie Md. He retired, sold his interest in the speed shop, and moved all his machines and tools to his home near BWI when Rt 1 started to be redeveloped. If the speed shop still exists they might have a contact number. I do not have a number any more but he did all the machine work on the last Y block I built in 2007. He is very knowledgable about the Y.
He will know how to measure the amount milled off the heads but it is actually pretty easy to do. Just measure the thickness of machining pads below the exhaust ports on the heads. They all came from the factory at exactly 1". If your heads measure in at 0.950" then they have been milled 0.050". Most people in the '60's would mill 0.060" off them without problem using flat top pistons.
|
By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
Doug, Bill is the man that built this engine, using, if I remember right, the rods I got from you. I am taking the whole thing back to him today or tomorrow and I really hope that he can figure out what is wrong.
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
Cactus (12/8/2012) I have some old G heads and I can't get them to hold compression. Since I have neither the shop, the knowledge, or the inclination to try to post them, I am thinking about having them posted. Any idea what that would cost or is it even cost effective? If that won't work I guess I will search for another set.It’s the unposted ECZ-G heads that appear to have the most issues with blowing head gaskets either when the compression ratio is stepped up or the heads themselves have been milled more than 0.025”. The ECZ-C heads are cast differently in the water jackets around the intake ports and because of this they do not have the same propensity for blowing head gaskets on cylinders 1, 3, 6, & 8 like the ‘G’ heads do. Here are a couple of links to past threads on do it yourself posting of the G heads. http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic33877-3-1.aspx#bm33879 http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic47592-3-1.aspx
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
Cactus (12/8/2012) I am probably around 9.3 with domed pistons. I thought I could get away with these heads but it is not happening.Most domed pistons have a 10cc dome so I used that value in the following calculation. A +030 over 312 with the pistons 0.025” in the hole and heads that have only a light cut (68cc) will still net 10.0:1 static compression ratio. This will prove to be too much cr for unposted G heads even if they are not milled beyond 0.025”. If the block is zero decked or is bored larger, the cr simply gets higher and compounds the issue.
|
By Cactus - 12 Years Ago
|
Thank you Ted, I have printed out the instructions for posting, but I just don't have the tools to do it. I am taking the heads and block (which can't keep a rear main in it) to my builder to see what he can come up with. I have some old C heads, but I have recently found some 471 heads which I think I will use.
|
By DANIEL TINDER - 12 Years Ago
|
Ted (12/10/2012) This will prove to be too much cr for unposted G heads even if they are not milled beyond 0.025”
Ted,
Would it be safe to assume that, exact static CR #s notwithstanding, if it runs ok on pump gas without having to retard the ignition, a properly prepared/assembled motor with good unposted "G" heads should not (under ordinary circumstances) suffer gasket failure?
If presented with an engine who's static CR WAS borderline, wouldn't the simplest cure (as opposed to tearing it down and starting over) be merely to retard the cam timing a bit and lower the dynamic CR? You would then have the additional "easy" adjunct of retarding/fine-tuning the distributor a tad if absolutely necessary?
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
DANIEL TINDER (12/10/2012) Ted, Would it be safe to assume that, exact static CR #s notwithstanding, if it runs ok on pump gas without having to retard the ignition, a properly prepared/assembled motor with good unposted "G" heads should not (under ordinary circumstances) suffer gasket failure?
If presented with an engine who's static CR WAS borderline, wouldn't the simplest cure (as opposed to tearing it down and starting over) be merely to retard the cam timing a bit and lower the dynamic CR? You would then have the additional "easy" adjunct of retarding/fine-tuning the distributor a tad if absolutely necessary?While detonation is a key player in the head gasket failure in un-posted heads, the actual head deck thickness is still the major consideration. The un-posted G heads simply have thin deck surfaces as delivered from the factory and as a result there is a balance point between the compression ratio and amount of head mill before gasket failures will be prevalent. A less amount of head mill and more compression or more head mill and less compression is the balancing act that must be played with the un-posted G heads. But ultimately there is a point of no return where excessively milled heads simply do not have enough internal support in which to hold the head gasket firm regardless of the compression ratio. So with that taking place, retarding the camshaft would not help. The Ford manual is pretty specific in limiting milling of the ’57 heads to a maximum of 0.010”. Once the heads became posted, the rules changed and more aggressive milling or increases in compression ratio could take place with less chance of head gasket failures. Un-posted G heads can have posts added to cylinders 1, 3, 6, & 8 which will give these particular heads another shot at being used successfully with higher combustion pressures or save a set of heads that have already been milled.
|
By Ted - 12 Years Ago
|
ejstith (12/8/2012) If one was shopping for factory posted heads what would one look for?Try this link for how to spot posted heads. Identifying posted heads
|