I’m in the process of gathering up carbs and intakes for an upcoming Ford Y-Block dual quad intake test.  The dual quad intakes on hand thus far for testing are the Edelbrock 255 and 257, 1956 Ford, 1957 Ford, Edmunds, and Fenton.  It would be a plus to see the Weiand and Offenhauser dual quad intakes also represented during this test.  Plans are to test some of the intakes with a variety of carbs including the new Demon Street Fighter carbs so there should be lots of information available once the test is concluded.

If anyone has a dual quad intake they would like to see tested during this dyno session, just get back with me and we can determine if this is something different or simply a duplicate of one that’s already on hand.  I could also use another 1956 FoMoCo intake as the one I have here has been heavily modified and would not be a good comparison to the stock ’57 model I have.  My contact information is at www.eatonbalancing.com .

Can any sort of test be considered for the different shapes of dual quad air cleaner assemblys at the same time?

Or are those such a small part of the equation that its not worth doing?

Oldmics

That’s a Yes for potentially testing some of the different air cleaners.  In a best case scenario, all air cleaners would need to be tested on a single manifold simply to reduce testing variables.  But if the air cleaners are for different carburetor center to center spacings, then examining the percent change in power outputs when comparing air cleaner versus no air cleaner would help to evaluate air cleaner performance from one intake to another.  I’m sure the type of carburetor is also a player in the air cleaner design as the Teapots have been quite sensitive to air cleaners that are too small or restrictive around the choke area.   I suspect that was just one of the engineering considerations as to why the ’57 dual quad air cleaners were the large round units versus the oval shaped air cleaners that were used in 1956.

I did dyno test a customer’s dual quad equipped Y that repeatedly made more power using a home-made air cleaner versus running without an air cleaner.  While this particular dual quad set up was using Edelbrock carbs, it was determined that the power improvement was not as much related to the air/fuel mixtures but were instead to the redirection of air flow into the carbs.

Here are carb center to center spacings on some of the intakes currently on hand.

Edelbrock FM255             – 8 ¾”

Edelbrock 257                  – 7 1/8”

Edmunds DM-427           – 8 9/16”

1956 Ford EDB-9425-C – 7 5/16”

1957 Ford ECG-9424-D – 7 5/16”

One thing that really impresses me about the y block is the vintage speed aspect, I mean what could be more impressive than a multiple carb setup.

Whilst I'm too far away to loan you anything, I see that my 257 is allready represented, what are you looking for in terms of components or assistance in conducting this test. 

Your work on testing different engine components for y blocks is really impressive and much appreaciated.  

thanks

Warren

Still need a Weiand and Offenhauser dual quad intake for the upcoming dual quad dyno test.  If you know of one hanging loose that I can borrow, get hold of me and I’ll arrange for shipping.  Contact info is at www.eatonbalancing.com .

But to keep interest level high, here are a couple of pics of just a few of the dual quad setups being readied for this test.  Thanks to all thus far for carbs, intakes, and parts for this test.  It would not happen without help from all.

What carbs do you plan on running in the test. From your photo's I see an assortment of holley teapots, early carters, edelbrocks, demon, I guess with adaptor any four barrel carb could be run but this will mean a lot of changing out.

If you don't run most of the common ones there will be people asking about the one's that weren't run?

Big test this one

cheers

Warren 

Right now there are original dual quad Teapots, a pair of Teapots modified per Karol Miller’s recommendations, Lincoln Teapots, Mercury WCFB’s, Buick/Olds WCFB’s, 450 cfm Holleys, 660 center squirter Holleys, Carter/Edelbrock 500’s, and Demon 625 Street Fighters.  Still working on a pair of Rochester 4V carbs but they are being problematic.  The key here is to run both old school and new technology carbs in this test.  There is a wide enough range in carbs at this point to at least get a feel for what cfm requirements are best either from a daily driver or racing standpoint.

And I have a known good pair of 780 Holleys set up for dual quads off of my 390 FE that I can use if at least one of the dual quad manifolds looks like it can stand to be overloaded and the carbs installed in the inline manner.  The model 4160 Holleys only install in an inline fashion on the wider spaced dual quad intakes.  The Edelbrock 257’s and Ford manifolds have too close a carb spacing to use the model 4160 HoIleys without special offset carb adapters.  On the other hand, the Edmunds, Fenton, and Edelbrock FM255 intakes can take the Holleys as an inline setup without issue.

I did spend a couple of days just sorting out many of the carbs individually on a stock ‘B’ intake so it’s at least known that the carbs do run okay by themselves.  Gary Burnette stopped by and spent some time helping with some of that.

How did Gary end up in your neck of the woods?

The answer is obvious.  Quit working on the brand x stuff.

Years ago my brother-in-law and I had a general repair shop.  His Dad (my F.I.L.) was a toolmaker in a gm factory.  We began to relate how many more gm cars we worked on compared to Fords, and how more serious the problems with the gms.  He didn't believe us, so he started keeping a little notebook.  After a while he admitted that we were telling it like it was.  He hated to say so.  So, I guess if you still want to eat and feed your family, you'll have to keep working on the other kinds. 

Ted, very gratifying to keep Kariol still involved in the y blocks and share some of his knowledge and storys, would love to meet the man, i would love to know what the mods are on the teapots mentioned, i,m sure once the tests are done that may be possible. As you know the lincoln teapots are hard to come by and if these mods equal them then theres HP to be gained. Thank you and best wishes for the new year.

Also Great that Karol could stop by, that must have been a blessing!

The addition of that 56 Merc intake would be awesome.That is the only missing link from the original Ford/Merc intake lineup from the 56-57 era.

That Merc intake is such a different design that it will e interesting to see how it preforms.

I will be sending out my pile of stuff on Monday which will include 2 of the original/correct carbs for that Merc intake.

Should be a good test all around.

Oldmics

I am sending an oval and the Purolater.

Can also send a Bird dual quad air cleaner.

Are you bringing the passenger car dual quad air cleaner?

Let me know if I should also send the Bird unit.

Thanks,Oldmics

UPDATE - BIRD STYLE DUAL QUAD AIR FILTER ALSO SENT FOR TESTING 

Bob.  Thanks for the pics.  That does give some other ideas for carb placement options and the linkage required to make them work.

Now if it was jetted up and had more air flow.

Ted has lots of toys and options to play with - thats for sure.

By the way-good call on the Bird and passenger air filter comparisons 

Oldmics

TED, all of us y block effected, inflicted, fans sit by for your results, like an expectant father in the waiting room. I havent heard or seen there was an OFFY 2x4 and was eager to see pic  of one if anyone here has one. I do have local CAIN 2 x4 intake if interested but as not a regular item may be not be relevant in your test programme. It is open plane and suit high rpm use more than cruising i would think.

yyy

It will be a good story when its told -fur shure!

Oldmics

Charlie.  Thanks for the reminder on Charlie Dover’s dual quad setup in his ’56 wagon.  His wagon was quite streetable with the dual quads and the carb linkage exhibited some really nice engineering for the sideways turned carbs.  The working cruise control is also a nice touch.

Testing is in process and is currently taking place with the ported 113 iron heads on the engine.  Teapot carburetor jetting is a time burner though.  It takes about as long to rejet a pair of Teapots as it does to do an intake manifold change so you see where the time goes in a hurry.  The factory ’57 setup though is a well engineered piece as delivered from the factory as it is an easy 45 horsepower improvement over the ‘A’ manifold with a single Lincoln Teapot.  But there’s still lots of carbs/intake combinations left to test and at some point, the aluminum heads will go on the engine to retest the better intake/carb combinations.

Once the testing is concluded, I’ll post some kind of chart that allows an ‘at a glance’ comparision.

Wayne. Do you still get the Y-Block Magazine? The iron head dual quad test results are in the latest issue (#115) while the aluminum head test results are coming out in the next issue (#116). Part III of that article will cover the results from the various air cleaner testing which will be in issue #117. I’ll be posting the condensed results of that testing here on the site after YBM issue #116 hits the stands. If you don’t get the YBM, just email me and I’ll send you a copy of the magazine article. The preferred email address to use is at www.eatonbalancing.com under contact information.

I'll add that the Edelbrock FM255 dual quad intake is a good manifold to use both in regards to its performance and its wider carb spacing which accommodates the use of more carburetor designs than the narrower carb spaced Edelbrock 257.

That 390 is 0.030” over with Edelbrock heads and runs on pump gas. With the Ford Sidewinder intake and a 750 Holley carb, 448 HP @ 5600, 426 TQ @ 4500. With the C8AX dual quad intake and a pair of 780 carbs, 465 HP @ 5700, 438 TQ @ 5500. And with the Edelbrock Victor 427 intake using a carb adapter and a 750 vacuum secondary Holley instead of a Dominator carb, 467 HP @ 5600, 447 TQ @ 5300. I'll add that fully porting the C8AX intake to match the heads cost some torque numbers but the horsepower numbers remained the same. The C8AX numbers above are the ported numbers.

Ditto on what Aussie Bill says. There would undoubtedly be some interest in an aluminum block but having it actually happen is where things get dicey. For one off or niche projects, it takes someone with a personal passion to get these off of the drawing boards.

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For the proposed iron 4.125” bore capable cylinder wall blocks for the Y, Verne Schumann needs a commitment for 35 or so to make it financially feasible. He’s having difficulty getting that number of commitments but part of the problem has been in getting the word out to the masses. This is something that needs to hit the mainstream publications rather than just a few internet forum boards. Once Verne has enough people interested in blocks, then a finished block could be ready in as little as nine months.

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If anyone is interested in one of the new iron Y blocks, just give Verne a call and get your name on the list. Here’s the link to the past thread giving some of the more pertinent details.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic76753.aspx

It’s been awhile since I’ve checked but at that time Verne was about half way there. But interest has been so slow that it may not happen. Part of the problem stems from prospective buyers for this block not stepping up to the plate and committing. These same people would like to first see the block in production and then purchase one once it is a proven piece. Verne is not asking for any money down but would like to have a rough idea what the interest level is with people putting their names down on the list as potential buyers. Verne already makes blocks for other applications so this is not a new venture for him.

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John Mummert had similar ‘upfront interest’ issues on the Y heads to make it financially viable but he went ahead on his own and made it happen. Now that the heads are in production, sales have been steady with no let up insight. I’ve no doubt that once a big inch Y block is out there outperforming all other similar displacement engines, the same will also hold true for the new blocks. Rough math for a 427 cubed Y has it easily making over 600 HP on pump gas with a streetable compression ratio. And then an engine fully prepped for racing would be considerably higher than this. Race built Y’s are now crowding the 600 horsepower mark so that gives an idea of what a big cubic inch Y is potentially capable of.