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By 58rancho - 12 Years Ago
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Hello, It is almost time to do the yearly oil change on my 292. It is used lightly, less than 1000 miles/yr, and I have always used Havoline 10-40. I would like to use a zinc additive, as I am fairly sure the valve seats have not been prepared for unleaded fuel. I would be interested to hear the thoughts of the group! Thanks, James Q, Ruston,LA
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By DANIEL TINDER - 12 Years Ago
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James,
You are likely confusing zinc with lead. If the 10W-40 turns out to be too low in ZDDP to protect your cam lobes & lifters, you would probably be better off to just change oil brands. The additive is only (reportedly) proven effective for initial break-in.
I have over 100K of on OEM iron valve seats using unleaded with no problems. As long as you don't run at high speeds for extended periods, hard seats aren't essential, especially if the motor was originally run with lead.
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By oldcarmark - 12 Years Ago
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Shell Rotella-T 15w40.Already has the additive in it.One of the last ones to have it.As far as the valve seats-when they go bad redo the heads with inserts on the exhaust valves.
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By Rono - 12 Years Ago
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James; Amsoil makes a ZDDP additive, but their 10-40 Premium oil is also formulated with it specifically for flat tappet motors Rono
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By Missouri Mike - 12 Years Ago
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Hi Guys Oldcarmark is correct. Rotella T 15-40 still has the ZDDP in it. A few months ago I actually called Shell and (after a LOT of "let me connect you to ....") got to speak with an engineer who was very knowledgable about the ZDDP issue for flat tappet cams. The ONLY Shell oil that still has an appropriate amount of ZDDP in it is the Shell Rotella T 15-40 which is usually considered for diesel engines. He told me that when Shell changes any formulation he hears about and works with it for about three years before it comes out on the market. He said there was no indication that this Rotella T formula was even being considered for change. I have used it with no isues for several years although I run an additive in my 428 and Y blocks. I don't use racing oil with ZDDP (Valvevoline comes to mind), or expensive synthetics (like Amsoil) though maybe I should, break in oil with ZDDP or break in additives with ZDDP. The most cost effective additive I've found is from Comp Cams at about $10 which I order from Summit Racing. If you're concerned about valve seats not handling unleaded gas you can get lead additive from many auto supply stores, Walmart, or any farm type supply store. I ran the stuff in my old Ford tractors for many years. Hope this helped Missouri Mike
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Our moderator Ted may step in here.. this subject has been thrashed to death. However, there are a few basics to keep in mind when buying oil for our favorite engines. Do not buy any oil which has the "star or gear wheel" on the label. Those oils are for modern roller valve train engines. Most multi weight oils, "heavier" than 10-30, have sufficient zddp content. Some people have resorted to racing oils for their anti scuff additives. For a street engine this is likely not a great idea. If in doubt, obtain a MSDS report on the oil. Rottela T is favoured by some, & I've used it some, however I believe (and could be corrected on this point) that Ted E. had some reservations about that oil. I don't recall the details for sure.
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By bird55 - 12 Years Ago
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You might also try Brad Penn products
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By Hollow Head - 12 Years Ago
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Valvoline VR-1 20W50 Racing, Champion 20W50 or then just add Lucas oil Engine break in lube http://www.jegs.com/i/Lucas+Oil/639/10063/10002/-1 . We tried that Lucas with our turbo engine and it really seems to work. Engine is very greasy and slippery inside  That "Not designed to use in passenger cars" must have something to do with catalysators? 
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By marvh - 12 Years Ago
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I use Brad Penn products High Performance 10-30
http://penngrade1.com/
This is the best prices Ihave found. I usually buy 2-3 cases at a time to reduce shipping costs. Three cases is under the UPS max weight per package.
http://www.buyracingparts.com/lubricants/brad-penn-racing-oil-10w30.htmlHere is a write up on adding additives to oils. http://penngrade1.com/CMSFiles/File/July%202011_PG1HP_TECH_LETTER_ZDDP_BRAD_PENN.pdf
I have no interests in this business.
marv
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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As Daniel brings up, the zinc content in the oil is specific to cam/lifter wear and not particularly necessary for cylinder head valve seats. And Paul is right in that the oil selection for flat tappet camshafts has been discussed heavily in the past. Here are just a few links to some of the older oil discussions on this forum. . General discussion1 General discussion2 General discussion3 Gil Baumgartner oil study Multi-viscosity oil clarification Why to not use diesel oil in a gasoline engine ZDDP Performing a search will bring up a bunch more. . If a zinc additive is required, my personal preference is ZDDPlus. In general, the smaller the bottle or the more concentrated the additive, the better it is as that reduces the amount of base stock oil that’s included with the additive. I’ve used the GM EOS in the past but have not seen the zinc/phosphate amounts in that particular additive since it was brought back as a new part number after it had been discontinued for awhile. . And here’s a word of warning about zinc supplements. Adding additional zinc in the form of supplements where the oil already has the necessary amounts overloads the oil with too much zinc and that by itself creates other issues including cam lobe pitting. Read the API bulletin for the SN oils that still retain the required amounts of zinc for the older engines. Once the appropriate SN rated oil for your application is chosen, you’ll find that using supplements or oil formulated for diesel engines are not required. And let’s add this: Starting with the SN classification on the oil, many of the diesel oils now have reduced zinc amounts. . Here’s the link to the article that was recently published in the Y-Block Magazine that goes into more detail on the variety of the reasons for cam lobe/lifter tappet failures on flat tappet camshafts. Engine oil by itself is only one of many considerations when taking into account the multitude of other reasons for cam/lifter failures. Camshaft and Lifter Failure Causes
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Here’s a link to a thread where some private testing that was done with various additives is discussed. The author concludes that the oil film strength typically ends up being compromised when additives are added. http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31791&sid=92fcb0c59f66c826e8eeaf64e41d4896#p378825
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By Frankenstein57 - 12 Years Ago
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This information was on a newsletter I received, the author does an analysis of approximately 20 oils. He states all the technical information to back his work. I've been using the shell rotella, he says he wouldn't walk across the street for it. Its a good read anyways
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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Interesting article. I'm glad I've chosen to use and stick with VR1 with no additives.
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By jrw429 - 12 Years Ago
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Here is a rebuttal to the www.speedtalk.com posting by the developer of ZDDPlus.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/an-oil-test-that-shows-zddplus-may-not-help-richard-c-please-look.380082/page-2#post-3049361
I certainly am no tribologist, but he seems to be speaking from a place of knowledge.
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By paul2748 - 12 Years Ago
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Frankenstein57 (11/23/2012)
This information was on a newsletter I received, the author does an analysis of approximately 20 oils. He states all the technical information to back his work. I've been using the shell rotella, he says he wouldn't walk across the street for it. Its a good read anyways
The problem with this study (I have seen it before) is that the CI oils are probably out of production at this point of time. At 1100 or more PPM the Rotella still seems to be ok for flat tappet engines. It certainly has more PPM of ZDDP than any oil back in the 50's, '60's or somewhat later had.
I use Rotella in both of my YBlocks. One car (a 56 Bird 312) made a trip to Oregon and back (from NJ) at continual speeds of 65-70 MPH (2800 to 2850 RPM's) with no adverse effects. The other car, while not as extensively used, has made a number of shorter trips, again at the same speeds, with no adverse effects.
Now if I were racing a car, I would probably use a racing oil. Whether its true or not, I have heard that racing oil in a street car is not the answer as racing oil has a different set of additives than a street oil. True???????
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By Hutz 292 - 12 Years Ago
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I have been using Joe Gibbs racing oil in my Y since I built it and works great. I called Joe Gibbs oil and talked to them and they created this oil specifically for flat tappet cams. It is HR15W-50 racing oil. It is formulated for older flat tappet engines and has high levels of zinc and phosperous and is recommended in applications that mey sit for a period of time. This oil has worked great and I use it in sub zero temps here in North Dakota and has protected my engine very well. They are very helpfull on the phone also. Here is the link to the oil I use inmy Y. http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products/highperformance/hr3.html
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Jim. Thanks for posting that link. It’s a good rebuttal to the prior link and as such, gives a different view of what’s required in the testing of the oils and additives for engines in general.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 12 Years Ago
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I still have a large stock of Rotella obtained before they reduced the zinc level. Will stick to my plan of alternating with low detergent racing oil.
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By Craig Seyfried - 12 Years Ago
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I have been using Joe Gibbs Hot Rod Conventional 10-30 Motor oil for about 3 years. It has the proper amount of zinc for flat tappet camshafts and lifters and it has anti-corosion additives for vehicles that are in storage for extended periods of time. I believe that this oil coats all the internal parts of the engine and you never have a dry start up after extended periods of storage. My 56 Customline has about 45,000 original miles on the 272 and runs great and uses no oil. I do change the oil about every year and that oil has about 1,000 per year on it. My other Ford a 1960 Fairlane 500 has a 427 side oiler engine and I drag race it at Bandimere Speedway. Leonard Vahsholtz and I built the engine, and I run Joe Gibbs full synthetic oil 10-30. I used to run Brad Penn oil and after running the J.G. oil the oil pressure increased 5 lbs. The J.G. oil is pricey but how much does it cost to replace the cam and lifters? Sheriff of Mayberry, Craig Seyfried
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