12 volt conversion II

12 volt conversion II - BAD

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By sundance241 - 13 Years Ago

Remember , you are going from 6 volt positive ground to 12 volt negitive ground. ...Did you change your coil , and selinod ? I changed my 55 , but used a one wire alt. with no problems........sounds to me you have a problem with wire conections some where..................Luck...............Sam Florida

By paul2748 - 13 Years Ago

Have you tried putting gas down the carb to see if it will fire?

You said you are getting spark to the points. Are you getting power to the plugs?

By Pete 55Tbird - 13 Years Ago

12 Volt conversion gone wrong.

In order to help you must give MORE DETAILED INFORMATION.

Do you have an OHM meter and know how to use it? YES OR NO?

You say the coil and solenoid are OK. How were the checked?

Have you run a jumper from the battery + POSITIVE lead to the + POSITIVE terminal of the COIL? This will bypass the ignition switch, ballast, and the solenoid.

Is there a wire from the _ NEGATIVE pole of the coil to the distributor?

Is the small wire inside the distributor that grounds the point intact?

With the car in NEUTRAL/PARK and power to coil through the jumper wire if you rotate the distributor can you get a spark at 1 ONE the points? and 2 TWO from the lead at the top of the coil to an engine ground? If so,

Have you tried starting fluid?

WAITING FOR YOUR REPLY. Pete

By Pete 55Tbird - 13 Years Ago

Posted Today @ 1:10 AM

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I tried that and there was no contact?

What did you try? WHAT?

By Pete 55Tbird - 13 Years Ago

Its your car that won`t start, so when someone tries to help you make the effort on your part to give an answer to a direct question.

To get a spark at the sparkplug end you need a complete circuit. Bat pos term to coil pos post. Coil neg post to distributor. Small wire inside distributor to ground the points. With a complete circuit the points opening will break the circuit and cause a spark. If the coil and condensor are good the 12 volts from the battery is stepped up to 20,000 volts.

QUESTION. With the jumper, bat plus to coil positive post can you read voltage from coil positive post to ground? From coil neg post to ground? From small wire in distributor to ground?

Until you do get a complete circuit FORGET your Alt, radio, ignition switch, etc etc etc. Once you can produce a spark at the points, ask more help. Pete

By speedpro56 - 13 Years Ago

will a 56 tbird or merc temp guage work?

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

If the timing is out it should still try to start-backfire etc.Are you getting any indication thats its firing MG?Is there fuel sprayed inside the carb if you pump it with engine OFF looking down the carb throat?Need to backtrack here and look at the basics.Is there ignition working?Is there fuel to carb?I have a feeling something is not hooked up for the ignition.When you put the points back in did you remember the little braided ground wire that goes on one of the point screws?If you take the cap off and crank the motor can you see a little spark in the points each time they open and close?No spark there?Is there 12 volts to the coil from the ignition switch?Turn the key to the position where it is when motor is running.Take a test light or voltmeter and see if there is power at the + terminal of coil.Try these basic checks and let us know what you find.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

I would say the ignition switch is worn out.Disconnect the wire from the I terminal on solenoid(the one you added).Run a jumper wire from + terminal of the battery to + terminal of the coil.It should start or try to start now when you turn the key.Power is supposed to come from ignition switch when you release key and it goes to the run position.Yours is not supplying power.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

With the ignition switch turned to the "run"position-the one before you cause the starter to engage-should be 12 volts to the + side of the coil if you are not using a ballast resistor..You should have 2 wires on that terminal.One from the ignition switch and one from the "Ï" terminal of the solenoid.The one from the solenoid gives 12 volts when the starter is engaged.As soon as you release the key 12 volts comes from the ignition switch.Nothing in your wiring should have been changed other than adding the bypass wire from the solenoid to the coil.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

You dont need a wire from switch to I terminal on solenoid.The only wire from I on solenoid is to coil + terminal.As rick mentioned you need a wire from ignition switch to S terminal.That wire would already be there on the 6 volt setup.By the way anyone who is interested-the ignition switch is the same from 52-59 on all Ford passenger cars.6 or 12 volts doesnt make a difference.i still think your problem is the switch itself.If you have to wiggle the key to get a contact its worn inside.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

The wire through the neutral switch ends up at the solenoid allowing the starter to crank.That circiut is workig as you can crank it-just wont start.If you take a jumper wire from + on the battery to the + on the coil you bypass the ignition switch altogether.Disconnect the wire from the I terminal on the solenoid.Use your remote starter to crank the engine and it should start or attempt to start.To shut it off disconnect power wire to the coil from battery.You dont even need the ignition switch at all.By the way I hope you either disconnected power to the dash gauges or installed a 12-6 voltage drop.They wont take 12 volts.Also disconnect power to the radio until you get a proper voltage drop for it.Macs Auto sells one for the gauge power and a radio repair store should have proper one for radio.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

With the jumper from battery to coil + did you crank it wth your remote starter button?It wont start just by jumping that connection.You still need to turn it over.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

Great to hear.Now did you do something to cut the gauge feed to 6 volts?Is your charging system working?Dont forget your radio and clock need to be on 6 volts also.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

You also need one for temp gauge and clock.I would unplug clock for now.

By oldcarmark - 13 Years Ago

If you are interested in having the clock serviced I can recommend a place called "The Clockworks".They have a website.Basic clean and service with minor repairs is around $60.00.They should be able to do something if you tell them you want it to work on 12 volts.They did mine-very good with a 1 year warranty.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

I have tried everything since I converted to 12 volt, removed ignitor and sent it back to company for exchange. I put in new points and set them at 16 with no luck, turns over with no firing and definitely getting fire to points, I bump the distributor with my remote start and they open and close.

The car was fine when I made the decision to go with the conversion, coil and solenoid are ok, rotor button is new, dist. cap is fairly new, plug wires are fine, don't know what else to try.

Does anyone have a trouble shooting list so I can see if I have missed something?

Also on back of the alternator there is a male outlet with a #1 and #2 terminals 1 goes to charge lite and ignition switch and #2 goes directly to battery, is this required? I hooked it up without any difference being made.

Appreciate any help.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

sorry , there is spark but it won't start.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

no I haven't tested to see if I'm getting fire to the plugs, but will check that.

Is it possible the ignition switch could be the problem?

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

Is that the same as using a jumper from terminal 2 to 1 then hooking 1 up as per the diagram?

I am using a GM alternator.

Thanks for your input.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

Appreciate all your guys input.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

I have an ohm meter and know how to use it, I've been out of town and just now getting back on the car.

1. there is 12 volt to the coil when the starter is turned over from the ignition on the coil but the 12 volts is not there until the starter is engaged.

2.there is power to the points but when you open the points manually there is no arc on the points.

3. I have a remote start so I should be able to bypass any key ignition problem I may have if I knew exactly what to check for but the key has to be wiggled around sometimes to get the key to make contact and when I turn the key to engage the starter the power to the radio is lost.

It acts like to me I have half a circuit.

4. I had gas when I parked the car but my gauge is not right so I'm going to add some gas to eliminate a possible screw up.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

jumper from + battery to + coil side and there was zero reaction,

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

I appreciate everyone's help on this, when I was in my early twenties I was a trouble shooter for mining equipment electronics but now I'm 62 and can't concentrate and see like I used to so I'm kind of frustrated but I will find the problem. Most of all I appreciate everybody's patience with me.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

Victory guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, after a bad "new" solenoid and a bad ignitor I'm finally back on the road.

My neighbor came up this evening and I had it wired right but the points weren't firing so he got the points set right and it fired up, I changed the points to the ignitor and the ballast and all is done except putting my wires back in their proper places.

Thanks for everybody's help.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

I got a voltage reducer on the gas gauge, the radio is unhooked for now and I didn't know about the clock. does the clock require a reducer or a polarity change?

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

my temp gauge is also unplugged, i have a under dash mounted gauge from previous owner and I will also unplug the clock until I can get a reducer, it doesn't keep great time but I set it to correct time at car shows and the ticking gets the judges attention.

Thanks Mark!

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

Thanks for the schematic.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

here's the way my wiring is on my 12 volt conversion so far.

1. yellow wire from ignition switch to positive battery.

2. red and blue wire from ignition switch to starter control terminal and controls neutral switch.

3. red wire from ignition switch is to the positive side of the coil.

4. small wire from negative side of coil to the distributor points.

with out a ballast inline , how much voltage should be going to the distributor? "12v".

have I left any wiring off other than the ones on the alternator.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

that's the way it's wired.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

my solenoid is reverse of yours, my s terminal is left and my I is right, I do have a jumper from I to coil + but I don't have a wire directly from the switch to the terminal I.

I thank you for your help, you haven't confused me at all, hopefully I'll have it wired right tomorrow.

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

which it is, it's the neutral control wire or is there another wire from the ignition as well?

By MG Cook - 13 Years Ago

I tried that and there was no contact?

By bergmanj - 13 Years Ago

IF you actually do have spark: It's really EASY to put the distributor back into the block out of time (don't ask how I know!!). Re-check actual TDC on compression for number one cyl & synchronize distributor timing accordingly.

Regards, JLB

By rick55 - 13 Years Ago

I presume you are using a GM alternator. The terminals need to be hooked up as per the instructions but you can loop the wire from terminal 2 to the Alternator output terminal.

Regards

By rick55 - 13 Years Ago

Connecting the alternator do not loop 1 and 2 terminal. If you are using a light it will not charge correctly. Instructions for wiring kits suggest you should put a diode in the line from the light to 1 terminal. It is possible for the alternator to back feed this circuit which will then cause the engine to run on. When I can I overcome this diode by using an LED warning light whis is itself a diode.

You can loop the 2 terminal to the alternator battery terminal.

Regards

By rick55 - 13 Years Ago

Here is the wiring as suggested by Painless Wiring, with the explanation of the diode.

Regards

By rick55 - 13 Years Ago

I haven't piped in on the problems you are having as I didn't want to confuse you.

The ignition switch has four functions.

In the Acc position there is only power to circuits on this terminal.

Off isolates all circuits.

Run provides power to all circuits connected to either the run terminal or accessory terminal.

Start provides power only to the start circuit.

This is how most 12volt switches work. If you are using your original switch it may be slightly different in function. It should continue to provide power to all circuits when the start is switched.

It sounds to me like you are using the start circuit S terminal to provide power to the ignition and starter solenoid, with nothing connected to the run circuit I terminal.

The ignition circuit (the one running to the coil) should be connected to the I terminal of the switch. The starter circuit should connect to the S terminal.

You then need to run a wire from the spare terminal of the starter solenoid to the coil + terminal. This is the wiring for a late model switch. Your switch should provide power to the coil when it is start or run with a wire connected to the I terminal.

If you are using the original 6 volt switch it would seem that it is U/S if you have it wired correctly.

It is normal for the radio to go off when starting as the accessory circuit is disconnected when in the start position.

I hope all this helps and I haven't confused you too much.

Regards

By rick55 - 13 Years Ago

I am sure someone has posted something like this circuit before in other posts, but this should make it easy to understand.

They have spliced a wire from the i terminal of the starter solenoid into the wire going to the + terminal of the coil after the resistor. They suggest a ballast resistor. Wire 16 goes to the B terminal of the ignition switch, wire 20 goes to the I terminal, a wire is needed from the S terminal of the ignition switch to the S terminal of the solenoid. If you wire up as per this diagram your problems should go away. If they don't your switch is fritzed.

I hope this helps

By chiggerfarmer - 13 Years Ago

I haven't gone back and reread every post this morning, but if I remember correctly you had voltage to the coil but no spark at the points. Probing the points arm with the voltmeter or test light should tell you if the primary wire from the coil to distributor has continuity. We sold a lot of those primary wires at the Ford dealer where I worked. It is attached to the points and works back and forth with the distributor advance and eventually breaks the wire inside. Usually it causes an intermittent problem, but if the wire is good and the points are working, the test light will flash on and off as the points open and close. If the test light stays on when the points are closed then either the wire or points are bad. You should also see a spark at the points when you turn the engine or open and close them by hand. In rare cases I have seen new points that simply did not work. I never had time to try to examine them to see why, but maybe they could be grounded at the pivot when they were assembled? Hope this helps. Tom

By chiggerfarmer - 13 Years Ago

OK, I should have proofread my post. If the points were grounded at the pivot, or any where else, the test light would not be on. For the points to be at fault, there must be a reason why they don't make contact, a film of something on them, or dirty. Tom

By Granny'56 - 13 Years Ago

Engine needs 4 things to run. Fuel, Air, Spark, and proper synchronization.

1) Air is easy. You can verify by putting hand over carb hole (sealing it off with your palm) if it sucks hard when you crank the starter you're drawing air. Best to disconnect coil to prevent a possible backfire hurting your hand.

2) Spark can be verified easily enough...Remove high tension wire from coil where it plugs into distributor and position it 1/4 inch from any convenient ground and crank with starter switch. should see/hear spark. (don't hold onto wire with your hand...Dummies do that and It really hurts!) If there is enough zap to jump a quarter of an inch it's enough to run an engine.

3) Fuel is easy. Get a can of starter fluid and shoot a little down carb whilst cranking. (after restoring coil HV wire) If engine tries to start on starting fluid...spark and air are Okay. Fuel delivery may be bad...Fuel pump, or carb?

4) If engine bangs and tries to run backwards or sideways, probably a timing issue. One possibility...Distributor could be 180 degrees out.

One warning!!! NEVER put your face over the carb when trying any of these things. I actually knew a guy who did...The car backfired through the carb, he breathed the hot gasses into his lungs and died right there.

By Granny'56 - 13 Years Ago

You might want to use your ohm meter to check for connection between your block and the frame ground of your car. I had a problem some years ago. Best test is to put meter (set on DC volts) between frame ground (- terminal on battery) and a ground on engine block. When you crank the engine you should see very little voltage dropped here. Not even half a volt if there is a firm ground connection twixt ground and block.

By Granny'56 - 13 Years Ago

Using Ohm scale check connection between engine block and ground. You should have a very good connection. (Reads zero Ohms, or very near it. Less than 1)

If you check with a DC volts scale and there is a good connection you will see NO voltage at all. The two points will be electrically the same. If you do see voltage between the two points (engine block and frame ground) you have a poor connection. This will show up especially under heavy load like cranking the starter. (Starter motors are beasts! and guzzle electricity rapidly) .

So! If you set your meter to DC Volts and connect it between the frame and the engine block, then crank the starter you should still see no voltage at all if everything is hunky dory. If the engine is partially isolated from the car's ground then you are likely to see some voltage there. This needs to be resolved. A heavy jumper cable from frame to engine block will work as a test. (If the problem is particularly bad and the jumper has to shoulder all the current a light #14 gauge may well go up in smoke.)

I had this problem on a '55 Willy's Wagon. Turns out the electricity was flowing through bearings etc, so connection was unstable. Car ran badly until I installed a ground strap from frame to the block. It ran sweet after that. Smooooth

By AdrienneWhitaker - 13 Years Ago

Granny'56 (7/19/2012)

Tips are really helpful.I am just go through it and found much progress in performance.

By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago

What do you mean by no firing? There is spark but it won't run or there is no spark?

By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago

Since it turns over and has spark, it's probably a timing or fuel issue. Since the stuff you've messed with will affect timing, get a timing light and see where it is at.

By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago

If the jumper from the battery to coil did not work then you have a bad or maladjusted ignition component, no ground or a really dead battery.

Is there a ground strap from the engine to the frame and/or body?

Try running jumpers from the distributor body to ground and the engine block to ground along with the jumper from + battery to + coil. YOu can use a jumper cable for the engine and a smaller alligator clip jumper for the distributor.