By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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I have a 57 Tbird with a 312/Fordomatic.
I have an engine vibration that is bad at around 1300 rpm. Anything below or above this rpm is significantly less but still there. It is not driveline rated as it does it even in park or neutral. The car idles very smooth and quiet and runs nicely. I have noticed it is more noticeable now after replacing the rear motor mount.
Thanks
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By Moz - 13 Years Ago
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could be just engine harmonics at those revs my 272 does it as well
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By pegleg - 13 Years Ago
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Nick. Two things come to mind, check to make certain the damper is in good shape, and all the bolts on the flywheel/flex plate are tight and in place.
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By Y block Billy - 13 Years Ago
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Auto or standard? I bought a new pressure plate from NAPA come from China and it took quite a chunk of metal to balance it at the balancing shop
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By aussiebill - 13 Years Ago
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Could it be exhaust is causing vibration among other suggestions.
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By paul2748 - 13 Years Ago
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check the steady rests on the sides. They do break
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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You can try disconnecting the vacuum advance to the distributor and see if the engine vibration goes away. I’m assuming this is a ‘shutter’ or vibration that only occurs when the engine is in neutral and is being revved up? If the vibration goes away with the vacuum advance disconnected, then it’s simply too much advance without any load on the engine. If unhooking the distributor vacuum advance doesn't alleviate the problem, then disconnect all the front belts from the lower crankshaft pulley and see if that makes a difference.
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By pops - 13 Years Ago
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I have a '56 Thunderbird (312/Fordomatic) that has the same m-o. Only mine starts at ~1,900 rpms and smooths back out at ~2,200 while moving, or in park/neutral. I worried about it, checked what my limited skills could think of to check, and eventually I decided to just drive it. It's still there, but I'm not losing any more sleep over it. (At least until it gets louder or longer)
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By rgrove - 13 Years Ago
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I had same thought as Ted, but in the opposite direction...I had a similar problem, and recently put in softer advance springs in the distributor. Problem was significantly lessened.
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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The vibration is there in park or neutral and you feel it when driving. Luckily its a low RPM and felt only when accelerating from a stop. Once out of that range it is much better. I took off the 6 bladed fan. Still no better. May an engine harmonics issue?
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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Hey all. I tried unhooking the vacuum advance. The vibration is still there. I also tried removing the fan and power steering belt and still there. It will do it in Drive or Park and when driving as well. So that eliminates driveshaft. The Harmonic balancer looks very good - no wobble or damaged in any way. Vibration starts at about 1100 RPM - 1400 RPM. If I go above that RPM its still there but hardly noticeable. When in park at idle (500 RPM) the engine has a smooth but slight soft rocking movement. Engine vacuum is a steady 19. Plugs all have a nice burn (slight tan colour) A local engine rebuilder commented that my engine is too quiet for solid lifters. You cannot hear the lifters clatter at all. He felt the valve lash is too tight.
Anyone agree with this before I proceed. I wouldnt bother with this but the city driving is in that RPM range.
Thanks all
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By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
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It won't hurt to check the lash. You should be able to hear it but it shouldn't be loud. But regardless, if you check it and it's right, then don't worry about any valve noise or a lack thereof.
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By Riz - 13 Years Ago
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If the engine is not dancing around I would start with the trans and move forward, maybe disconnect the trans and isolate the engine and see what happens
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By Grizzly - 13 Years Ago
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Nat, You've had you leads off recently chasing that vacuum leak check your firing order. cheers Warren
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By gekko13 - 13 Years Ago
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Please do not take this wrong but not knowing your mechanical experience, a couple things come to mind. Spark plug wires in good physical condition and properly seated? Recent ignition service? Did this vibration start suddenly or? Have you examined the spark plugs? Their color and condition may narrow your search.
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By gekko13 - 13 Years Ago
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Please do not take this wrong but not knowing your mechanical experience, a couple things come to mind. Spark plug wires in good physical condition and properly seated? Recent ignition service? Did this vibration start suddenly or? Have you examined the spark plugs? Their color and condition may narrow your search.
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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Is there any way to tell if the harmonic balancer is at fault here? Would I be able to move or turn it. I am assuming that when a harmonic balancer fails it has rotated shifting the counter weight. It is sitting approx 3/4" away from the crankshaft pulley. Does that sound correct? It is annoying to drive because it is right at city speeds (30-35 mph)
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By NoShortcuts - 13 Years Ago
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Nat, check these two things...
1) The first is the vibration damper mentioned by others previously. The 'donut' behind the pulleys on these is very prone to moving back toward the timing chain cover. The rubber gets hard with time and engine heat and allows the 'donut' to slip, moving toward the timing chain cover. When viewed from above, or even from the side, it appears that there is no interference, that is, the 'donut' seemingly has not moved back enough to contact anything that it shouldn't. However if you can observe the 'donut' at its lower side rear edge, you may see that the lower edge is potentially just touching the front steel engine support that is attached to the timing chain cover. SOMETIMES, you'll get a random tweet from the 'donut' brushing the curve of the front engine support at idle.
Also, between the 'donut' and the pulley are two 180 degree apart openings. The side of the openings closest to the 'donut' have center points that are closer to the 'donut' than the ends of the openings. Using an INSIDE (correction!) caliper, the space between the center of either of the openings to the face of the 'donut' should be between 5/16 and 3/8 of an inch. This dimension was taken from a damper I ordered from Ford that has not been used (yet).
2) On the 'Birds, the side engine steady rests are riveted to the frame. I've seen more than one of these where the rivets are loose. The ones I've seen have been loose on the driver's side. They will not 'look' loose, but if you remove the rod between the frame bracket and the engine bracket, you'll be able to test them by trying to wiggle them. These can be fixed by welding the bracket to the frame or by removing the rivet and bolting through the frame outer and inner box sides. While doing this check, consider also removing the steel brackets from the sides of the engine block. I've also seen these brackets cracked from the twisting action of the engine.
All the previously mentioned thoughts from others are sound, too. Vibrations are a challenge to find. Let us know how you make out. 
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By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
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Is it possible that the cam chain could cause this vibration, Maybe throwing things out a little till it "loads up"? Ted, Tim?
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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I inspected the harmonic balancer. It has not moved backward toward the timing cover. It was pretty much spot on with the dimensions you gave me. Maybe it has spun? The engine steady rest brackets are tight. Checked my plugs for misfire- All my spark plugs are relatively close on burn (Light to Medium tan). #8 is a bit lighter. Vacuum measured with car in drive is a steady 19 1/2 inches. Ted described it best as a shudder. At 500 rpm in neutral or park the engine has a subtle side to side soft rocking motion - 1200 -1400 rpm is where it is at its worst. It comes up through the steering column-anything above that I think its still there but again subtle. Thanks all
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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Talkwrench (10/15/2012) Is it possible that the cam chain could cause this vibration, Maybe throwing things out a little till it "loads up"? Ted, Tim?I would expect that the timing chain is pre-loaded at a constant rate when running. This can be validated by simply watching the timing mark with a light and insuring it's steady. If the timing mark jitters, then something between the chain and the internals of the distributor is moving around more than it should be. Camshaft end play can also do this.
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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Nat. Something that comes to mind is a worn valve guide but your vacuum check should have singled that out. When you ran the vacuum check, did you check the vacuum at the rpm point that the engine had the vibration? Beyond that, I’ll suggest backing up the ignition timing at least 10° and see if the ‘shutter’ diminishes or goes away. If this makes a difference, then concentrate on the ignition advance curve as the source of the problem. If no change, then it’s back to the carburetor assuming a cranking compression check on the engine has all the cylinders within 10% of each other.
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By Ghsthrss - 13 Years Ago
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This is just an addition to your conundrum. I have a 292 in my current truck that the dampener is separated on. I know it defies logic because i thought the engine was going to fly apart when it happened but i worried about it for the first month, then nothing really happened. I eventually took the weight off because nothing I did would keep it together, and since I'm in the process of building a new motor and am too cheep to get another one for this motor. I am still driving the dampener less motor in this truck with no adverse effects or vibration.... not saying that this wouldn't present a problem for someone else, I just got "lucky"... or my motor will grenade any day now... but no vibration from lack of dampener in my case. Since we're on the subject anyone care to chime in, in my case?
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By Ted - 13 Years Ago
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Ghsthrss (10/16/2012) This is just an addition to your conundrum. I have a 292 in my current truck that the dampener is separated on. I know it defies logic because i thought the engine was going to fly apart when it happened but i worried about it for the first month, then nothing really happened. I eventually took the weight off because nothing I did would keep it together, and since I'm in the process of building a new motor and am too cheep to get another one for this motor. I am still driving the dampener less motor in this truck with no adverse effects or vibration.... not saying that this wouldn't present a problem for someone else, I just got "lucky"... or my motor will grenade any day now... but no vibration from lack of dampener in my case. Since we're on the subject anyone care to chime in, in my case?Harmonic dampers are designed specifically to counteract those shock waves (harmonics) being transmitted through the crankshaft. That’s why they are called harmonic dampers and not harmonic balancers. The dampers really don’t have anything to do with engine balance as long at the damper itself is undamaged and has the factory balance intact. If the damper rings slips, then that could create an imbalance situation simply due to the outer damper being out of sync with the inner hub. That leads into this. The 1954 car 239 engines and the pickup and truck 239, 256, and 272 engines used solid hubs at the crankshaft without dampening capabilities. Engine life is simply prolonged with an elastometer style of damper and especially when the engines get larger in displacement and have higher compression ratios. The compression ratios of the first year Y's and the pickup engines was low enough that the factory engineers did not see the requirement for a damper on those particular engines. As the compression ratio goes up, so does the need for a heavier harmonic damper.
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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I did another test today as per Ted’s recommendation. I checked the vacuum with distributor line disconnected. In drive at 450 rpm it was a solid 19". Then I revved the engine slowly. It held steady at about 20 1/2" right through the vibration and back down again. I do not have a timing light check to see if there are timing mark jitters. I am not 100% sure but I almost feel a very slight misfire during the vibration. I look at the tach and it seems I get really slight blips in the needle. I will look into this a bit closer. Thanks for all the help.
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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I did another test today as per Ted’s recommendation. I checked the vacuum with distributor line disconnected. In drive at 450 rpm it was a solid 19". Then I revved the engine slowly. It held steady at about 20 1/2" right through the vibration and back down again. I do not have a timing light check to see if there are timing mark jitters. I am not 100% sure but I almost feel a very slight misfire during the vibration. I look at the tach and it seems I get really slight blips in the needle. I will look into this a bit closer. BTW the distributor was professionally rebuilt about 6,000 miles ago. No play in the shaft. Spark advance plate moves smoothly and easily. I am using Autolite 46 Plugs. Wires are about 5 years old. 4160 Holley carb about 4 years old. Float bowls are set correctly. 1 1/2 turns out on drivers side screw- 1 1/4 turns out on the right side. (Car runs rough if they are out the same amount)
Thanks for all the help.
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By Jerome - 13 Years Ago
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It may help to know when this shudder developed and what changes preceded it or if it has always been there. Also, did regapping lifters help any? Some additional checks best done one at a time: Check and record your cold cranking compression in each cylinder. Should not differ by more than 5 percent if all are healthy. Check convertor flexplate for damage or loose convertor or flywheel bolts. Install a brand new set of plugs and check for vibration. If you have the stock Ford Y-block distributor, static time the engine using a 12 volt check light (a 12 Volt light socket, bulb and two arm length leads with alligator clips). Ground one and attach other to wire lead at the coil post common to the distributor lead. Pull distributor coil wire so engine can not fire for safety. Turn ignition on. Turn engine clockwise by hand at the crank damper bolt till #1 is coming up. Engine would have fired #1 cylinder when bulb lights. Note your timing mark on vibration damper. Mark #1 spark post position on distributor base. Remove distributor cap. Check rotor movement between zero advance and full mechanical plus vacuum advance to insure the distributor post at rest falls midway between the full rotor tip movement range. This insures cap and rotor have been properly clocked by your favorite parts stores secret offshore supplier (and you thought they were usa made) and that spark will not jump to wrong post at full vacuum advance. Check inside dome of distributor cap for any kind of dust or grease residue and any sign of electrical tracking between all nine posts. Replace at hint of a problem. In total darkness. have someone hold engine at peak vibration rpm and check engine plug wires for any visible sign of electrical leakage to ground or adjacent wires. Y-Blocks hide plug wires very well. Get a new spark plug wire. Bypass each plug wire one at a time to see if the new wire eliminates the vibration. Try a different condenser and check for vibration. They can go bad. I found the hold down screw loose on a condenser once. Drove me nuts finding it. Try a different coil and check for vibration. If power brake equipped, check for booster diaphram leak by plugging intake manifold tap for booster and check for vibration. #8 cylinder, lighter in color, could mean burning leaner (intake manifold gasket leak) or coolant getting into that cylinder. Any radiator coolant loss over 6 months? If none of the prior tests fix the problem, turn focus on carburetor. Let us know what carburetor list number you have. I ran my Holley list 1273 50 years with a slight hesitation off idle that I now attribute to insufficant transition slot exposure. Vanished when 650 cfm 4011 replaced it. Jerome
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By Nat Santamaria - 13 Years Ago
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Adjusting the valves did not solve problem. However I believe vacuum is up a bit and a bit smoother idle. Some of the valves were too tight. I will try new plugs next. What do you recommend on a stock 312. I currently run Autolite 46 plugs. Are these hot or cold plug? Any advantages to the Platinum plugs?
Thanks
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By lowrider - 13 Years Ago
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I would think that you would have a fluctuation on the vacuum gauge at the point of the vibration if there was a problem with the engine driveability. Sounds more like a mechanical vibration. My0.02
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