Shiftin' the Ford-O


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By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
Just wondering at what speed should the Ford-o shifts at under normal exceleration and faster exceleration, also what is the normal or top speed cruising that it would normally kick down?
By Jeff - 13 Years Ago
I seem to remember the factory shop manual talks about up shift and down shift points along with the kick down adjustment.



Jeff
By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
Are your shift points really early or late? Mine tends to shift up very early under light excelleration. Haven't tried to adjust it yet. Due to a lot of slack somewhere in my 57s driveline, I avoid using the throttle kickdown, so can't comment on it..
By rgrove - 13 Years Ago
If you pm me an email addy i can scan and send the specs out of the service manual. Mit lists wot upshift points, downshift, etc.
By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
Rob - Did you ever check to be sure your 4160 carb can get to WOT? We recently had a thread on here with Moz about getting his Holley throttle lever to work with the Fordo linkage. 
By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
PF , ..Guess its why Im askin' I dont really know if its early or late shifting?

Ron , I'll email you , thanks

Steve, Yes I am getting WOT ,you helped me out with that one. I do find it hard to understand the geometry of the bell crank and how it works on the kick down, I have been turning a blind eye in the hope that it "just works" BigGrin  Ive had enough problems working it out on the Cuda !

Had a bit of a play with it yesterday arvo and made sure things line up with the 1/4" rod thru the hole. I extended the kick down [ok its not just a kick down!] 3 turns. On a moderate exceleration changes gear around 30 mph. at this point I can "feel" the change its not a harsh clunk but I feel going much more the shift will become hard. The other thing is that it wont "kick down" above 30 mph.

I wondered at what should the maximum speed be before its capable of shifting down?

By rick55 - 13 Years Ago
Rob

I have a copy of the Fordo Manual I can give you.

Regards
By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
Rob - Got home and into my "blue book" on the Fordo - borrow one or buy one for a reference book when you get a chance. Can't scan it here - but you need page 24.

'56 car 272/292:

3.22 axle 

upshift 2-3 at min throttle = 12-20 / at max throttle 60-67

downshift 3-2 at min throttle = 14-7 / at max throttle 67

3.55 axle  

upshaft 2-3 at min throttle = 11-18 / at max throttle 54-61

downshift 3-2 at min throttle = 12-7 / at max throttle 61

By rick55 - 13 Years Ago
Here is the chart out of the manual for shift points.



Regards
By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
I went through and set everything again and moved the pedal about 4" away from the floor its a a maximium, lined up the bell crank hole etc I set the "kick down rod"  [sorry for not using correct term] so it slides back in its pin then 4 turns out making it longer and so far getting close to those shift points. At WOT doesn't seem to hold and changes [up] probably more around 40-45 mph. Its not kicking down either . I found the kickdown mechanism very stiff, can someone easily explain how the kick down mechanism works at the bell crank, Got me stumped?

 

By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
Hi Rob - still tweakin' eh?

The springs are rigged (as original) so that the carb will go to full throttle and reach it's stop - then the slotted kickdown portion of the linkage will begin to rotate further. It is an "over-travel" arrangement. Kickdown spring is stiffer than the throttle return spring. The prescribed distance under the foot pedal lets the linkage travel sufficently for everything to work. 

As the kickdown rod moves downward on its link - it is operating a pressure regulator in the transmission. This pressure is "compared" to pressure in another of the trans circuits and when they become equal - the trans drops a gear. Incrementing the rod up or down - raises or lowers the pressure.

The Ford-O-Matic book suggests a point on the trans where an actual pressure guage may be utilized to monitor what the comparator is doing.

By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
Ahhh you know how it is , ya just cant stop fingering it Tongue

I'll have to look at it again, but is it pressure inside the trans that helps pull the slotted section around? From what I remember yes the spring is stronger when I open it to WOT [at the carb linkage] the slot doesnt move around . If you grab it with your other hand and "make it move " it does.. There is a "resting" area in the slot that kind of holds it in place and it pops out and things move when you do it with your hand , wont do it on its own.. Is that the problem?

By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
This shows the 'bird - don't know how closely it is allied to yours....

The hot idle gets set-up, then adjust the carb link with the "alignment tool" screwdriver stuck in the cross holes - then adjust the link down to the bellcrank to hold the throttle pedal up off the floor the right amount. My book says yours is to be 3-5/8 (93mm) off the floor. Then remove the tool.

As the foot feed pedal goes down, the carb primary should pull to wide open before your foot reaches the floor. Once it reaches wide open (and stops) you should then be overpowering the kickdown spring to move the lever in the slot.

This gets figured out without the kickdown rod connected - mine was off in the picture. You then pull up on the down rod of the kickdown - and adjust the clevis link to "just fit" onto the mating linkage pin. As it goes down - it increments the pressure upward in the comparator circuit. Adjusting the rod downward raises that pressure - without moving the throttle - which is where some mechanics get into trouble, because you can get it to "kickdown" without enough throttle to match.  

By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
Ahhh looking at your pic its possible that I have misunderstood which spring does what. The vertical spring is the "kickdown" ? now on mine that spring is the weaker.. That be the problem?
By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
Rob - The vertical spring is the throttle return - and the horizontal spring governs the force for overtravel movement in the kickdown slot. The whole lever assembly should be able to rotate without displacing the pin in the slot - until the carb reaches full throttle of the primary. The kickdown spring (horizontal) should be stiffest. 

On my outfits - with both the Holley 4160 and the Demon - the combined force of the spring in the carb - and that vertical spring at the rear - were too high, and the pin would begin to move in the slot before the carb reached full throttle. So you would be depressing the foot pedal - and no throttle change would result, just rotating the kickdown rod downward. Like pressing a sponge..... 

People have told me they successfully added spring force to the kickdown (horizontal spring) and got it to behave - but I haven't been that lucky. So mine has the bolt and washer seen in this photo to lock out the "over travel" slot - and I just shift it with the lever.

By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
Yes I did have another look at it. Is it possible that the horizontal spring for the kickdown can be too stiff not allowing it to pop out into the slot? As we know mine moves all the way through but but wont pop out into the slot. I re-checked the alignment hole and it was fine with the springs in place but when taking off the throttle was slightly out , guess that shows just how much ware is in the whole setup. Seems to be a very fine "angle of the dangle" when it comes to getting it right. Not quite understand the lock out ?

I will make this work aghhh!!!

By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
By George I think he's got it !!

Small things can make a big difference.. I think one of the main things I had problems with is the fact that I have a B manifold and the original A bell crank doesnt go straight on, you need to grind a piece off. When I first put it on I just made some spacers to lift it up. I did adjust everything to suit..seemed fine, but as with all things modified you get changes and sometimes a little is a lot. I fitted the bell crank again, ground the piece off and the alignment was better , before it seemed to align but when I pulled the 1/4" rod out it would spring up a little. I set the pedal height again, played and played with it, stuffed around with the springs this way and that even broke one at one point ! I realised that I was doing changes under the hood trying to get things working when its real important to have someone inside the car  working the actual pedal so you can see the changes, thank you my dear wife.... I had to stretch the horizontal spring just so..

Anyway, the drive test with a few tweeks here and there seems to have got, dont think its perfect, I really have to smash the floor but I does go down a gear and a lovely noise is produced .. Wooo she goes...!w00t

Hope this may help someone else BigGrin

By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
T.W. Did you have most of the linkage apart? Reason for asking is. I had the upper end of the lowerball end linkage apart on mine recently, to clean & lube it. When I put it back together and tried the gas pedal it was very stiff. Looked at it again & realized that there was two holes fairly close together horizontally, & I had bolted the upper pivot into the wrong hole..
By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
No I didnt pull any of that apart , just removed the bell crank as a whole.

One thing I did sort out is you have to use the upper most hole on the lever of the carb, it makes a difference to how far down the lever goes at the connection of the kick down rod.