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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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In the spur of a moment, I decided to yank the 292 out of my '64 F100 and give it a proper rebuild and maybe toss some goodies at it. I pulled it out yesterday and got it down to a bare block today. The block is C2AE, the heads are C1TE, and the crank has various numbers punched on it but is a forged crank I believe.
I'd like to take everything to the machine shop tomorrow, but would like to get some opinions on what direction to go with for this build. The engine will be going back into the same truck, which is my regular driver, so streetability is an important factor. The truck isn't used for heavy duty work though. Its been hot-rodded some with a Jag front suspension and lowered stance. I'll occasionally tow a 3000lbs boat with it, but otherwise I'm just going to use it for commuting. I'd like to go with a little peppier cam and a 4bbl carb though. I already have a Pertronix distributor to put back in it. I also have a Mustang T5 to go behind it.
So I've been browsing through Mummert's site and came up with this initial parts list:
- High rise aluminum intake (coupled with an Edelbrock 500cfm carb)
- Y-265S cam
- Complete rebuild kit
- Tons of misc stuff like p/s brackets, pushrods, lifters, bellhousing modification, blah blah blah (hopefully I can get some sort of discount for a bulk order  )
My questions are:
- Are the C1TE heads any good? If not, does anyone have a set of nice heads for sale? I'd love to bolt on a set of Mummert's aluminum heads but not sure if I can afford it.
- Is the Y-265S cam a good choice for my application?
- How do I bump up the compression ratio some? Maybe a different set of heads is the ticket?
- Are there any oiling modifications I should make?
Any other thoughts on the build are appreciated!
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Two areas that will give the best bang for the buck in regards to performance will be increasing the compression ratio and head porting. Here’s the link showing the chart for some of the various cylinder heads that have been tested on a 312. http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Topic61587-3-3.aspx Here are some past threads discussing oil mods. Center cam bearing Grooving the center cam hole in the block Oil Flow Diagram Pressurized rocker shafts Pressurized rocker shaft more Pressurized timing chain oiling Rocker arm overflow tubes Cons Rocker arm overflow tubes Pros Rocker arm overflow tube More Pros Slotting the rocker shafts for improved oiling Timing chain oil trough Adding lifter valley holes for camshaft oiling Drilling additional holes for oiling and/or venting Valley holes for aiding crankcase evacuation
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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I like everything but the Edelbrock carb. I wouldn't use it unless I had it on hand and didn't want to spend money for something else. It's not a bad carb it just isn't in the same ball park, after having used a Holley.
RE the heads, get whatever you can afford. A smaller chambered big valve casting will help but if it's not in the budget, the C1TEs will get you down the road just fine.
Since you're doing a complete rebuild, the easiest and possibly most cost effective way to increase compression may be domed pistons. If you have the extra cash, you can zero the deck (Make sure the pistons are flush with the block's deck surface when at top dead center). This will increase compression and improve the detonation resistance of the engine. You can mill the heads.
You do need to decide just how you will get your compression. If you use the C1TEs with domed pistons and later decide to swap for better heads, you may then have too much compression. On the other hand, if you stick with flat tops, you will leave some compression on the table but you should be able to swap heads later with no worries.
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By Y block Billy - 12 Years Ago
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I got the Mummert (Clay smith) 272 cam and am very pleased. But for my style driving I wish I would have upped it some to the 282. Where are you located? even some C or H heads with the medium sized valves I found work very well.
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By JPotter57 - 12 Years Ago
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Hey Matt, off the subject of the 292 for just a sec, do you have any photos of the Jag suspension install in your truck? I have a `61 Unibody and really want to put one in the truck, and would like to see how the truck sits, plus how easy it is to install. Email me if you want to keep it off here, just really interested in seeing it. email is JPotter at speedmaven dot com.
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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Do I have photos?! Only a comprehensive write up of the entire swap including detailed pictures and other tips. 
http://jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=571296
Back to the 292 build. It sounds like getting the compression up is the key here. I was reading Tim McMaster's article (HERE) about using the C1TE heads by opening up the valve size and shaving the deck to reduce chamber size. It definitely piqued my interest so I emailed him about it but haven't heard back yet. I'm not sure how much it would cost to do all that work to these heads though... On the other hand, the more I look at the aluminum heads, the more I want them.  Arrrghh. They would definitely solve a lot of problems and get my CR in a great range...
I also found out today that this particular 292 had already been rebuilt back in the '80s. It has .040 oversize pistons in it. So can I go to .060 pistons safely? Mummert's rebuild kit offers .060 so I'd assume its okay.
The Edelbrock 500 is a carb I already have. I've owned several Holleys and Edelbrocks and have never found one make overwhelmingly better than the other, so I think I'll stick with the 500 for the meantime, but I still appreciate your advice Charlie.
I'm in Billerica, MA, fyi.
Thanks everyone.
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By Glen Henderson - 12 Years Ago
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Matt, I had followed your Jag suspension thread and was impressed, glad you are keeping the Y block. You should have no problem with +.060 bore, but always a good idea to sonic check for over that. I would look for some G or 113 heads, and 0 deck the block. If you can't find any heads local, give me a call, I have several sets of G's but shipping is high. Of course if they are in the budget, the Mummert alum heads can't be beat.
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By slumlord444 - 12 Years Ago
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I think the cam will be great. I would suggest ECZ-G heads with 1.54 rockers. The Mummert intake would be great if it was in your budget but the stock '57 Ford cast iron 4 barrel intake with the proper spacer and a 500 to 550 Holley would be good. A stock Holley off of a '57 312 would also be fine. Headers and a good set of performance mufflers will also help. Have fun with it.
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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matt2491 (3/14/2012)
... I also found out today that this particular 292 had already been rebuilt back in the '80s. It has .040 oversize pistons in it. So can I go to .060 pistons safely? Mummert's rebuild kit offers .060 so I'd assume its okay.That would be a Yes on the 0.060” overbore. While sonic testing is typically recommended for any overboring to simply to check for core shift, the C2AE blocks are reasonably safe at 0.060” over. Part of this has to do with the C2AE blocks being used for both 292 and 312 production requirements.
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By Y block Billy - 12 Years Ago
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I am about 2-2.5 hours north of you, I have a variety of heads. Look on Mummerts site at Crank ID. if it is steel it will have a full circle flange where the flywheel bolts on. Ted! posted at 4:30am, having sleep disorders these days?
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Y block Billy (3/15/2012)
.... Ted! posted at 4:30am, having sleep disorders these days?Billy. Same sleep disorder as before. It would appear that the change to Daylight Savings Time has the forum registering myself as being on an hour earlier than normal.
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By mctim64 - 12 Years Ago
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Matt, your heads are boxed and ready to go. They worked good on "Jake" so they should do well on yours.
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks Tim! For those who don't know, mctim is sending me a set of his special C1TE heads that got the deck milling and Windsor valves treatment as detailed in his excellent article found here: http://yblockguy.com/techtips/cylinder_head_mods.html These very heads ran on his LSR F100, so they ought to be more than good enough for my street F100!
Hopefully with my block zero-decked + these milled down heads (which are now in the range of 69cc), I should be able to achieve something near 9:1 compression. 
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Matt: Just re read your posting.. If you are on a tite budget.. are the engines 0.40 over pistons & clearances still within spec? If so going to the expense of new 0.60 over pistons & boring the block may not be your best bang for the buck.. Just a thought.
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By yalincoln - 12 Years Ago
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a good set of std bore 312 pistons is another option if .010 will clean up the block.
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks for the advice guys. My machinist called and said the block needed to go to .060 over. Alrighty, whatever, fine with me. I AM on a budget, but honestly who isn't? Its gonna cost what its gonna cost to do it right. I'm just not going to worry about it. So I guess .060 over 292ci puts me at 301ci? Cool!
I found a seller on ebay called Falcon Global who actually sells some of the specialty y-block parts and such. I gave em a call and ended up ordering a complete master rebuild kit (.060 pistons and .020 rod/main bearings) and an Isky E-4 cam and lifters. I did some reading on the E-4 cam and got the impression that its a proven street cam that many people like. I got the guy to upgrade my kit to a Rollmaster double roller timing chain and an ARP oil pump drive shaft for a few bucks more too. Also splurged on a billet damper since my stock one is a little worse for wear... and finally free shipping to top it off.  The total came in just a hair over $1000. I think it was a great deal.
The heads from McMaster showed up a few days ago too. They're beautiful and I can't wait to see how they perform.
Now I need to get on the horn with Mummert and order his aluminum intake, a new flywheel, and maybe a T5-modified bellhousing.
Its getting exciting!
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By Doug T - 12 Years Ago
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Hey Matt,
That is a great thread on the HAMB site and it has gotten very good reviews from the HAMBers. But there was one goon wanted to know when you were installing what he called a Chebby which we all know as a scrub. Maybe you should tell him that we use scrubs as ballast, ask Tim McM for a pic.
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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Hey all,
I got the block, crank, rods & pistons back from the machine shop today. The guy did a nice job, and I was able to assemble the short block without a hitch. However, my pistons are all sitting .046" down the hole! I will be running composition head gaskets, so that's another .045" added on top. Not an acceptable quench from what I understand.
So is it worth taking the block back and having it cut .040~? The machinist left the deck untouched since he said it was straight, but I'm willing to bring it back to him if you guys think its worth it. 
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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I think it's worth it. It increases the compression which increases the efficiency and power and therefore should pay for itself easily throughout the life of the engine. The increase in compression probably will not require that the next grade of fuel be used, everything else being equal.
Don't be surprised if this also requires that the intake or intake flange of the head needs to be milled, particularly if the heads were cut. This adds to the cost of the whole deal.
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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Alrighty I took the block back to the guy today. He said he'll take .040~.045" off the deck.
In the meantime, is it worth getting my crank re-balanced? I don't want to go crazy, and this is just an engine for my truck, so if its not necessary, do say so. But I am running new .060 pistons and not sure if they are more or less weight than the original slugs. How accurate was the factory balance anyway?
Oh, and a pic from yesterday
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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I'm sure you need to draw the line somewhere but since you're planning to use this engine, I think it is absolutely worth it. You'll be glad you did. While you're at it, balance the damper, the flywheel, and maybe the pressure plate. Some shops don't charge extra to do that with the crank. Also do the rods and pistons - they are usually included in a balance job. After you balance an engine, you'll be surprised just how out of balance a "smooth running" engine was.
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By bergmanj - 12 Years Ago
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Matt2491, Nice! I have a cautionary question: By the looks of the various piston / rod combinations, I see a large variation in the looks of the large-end counterweight (balancing weight); have you static-balanced that set of eight to each other for weight-match. If not, (IMHO) please take the time to obtain a gram-scale; and, carefully static-balance all to the lightest of each end. I've done this many moons ago, and balanced to within 1/10 gram; which made that engine really sweet (even without dynamic balancing); you could stand a nickel on edge all day on it's intake manifold while idling; and, it would start on the first stroke. After static balance, THEN, have it dynamically balanced. Regards, JLB
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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The crank, rods, rod bearings, pistons, rings, snout gear, and damper are at the balance shop. I still don't have a flywheel to bring him yet; maybe I'll order one from Mummert today. I feel fortunate to have found a really good balance shop called Lindskog Balancing in Boxborough MA. The guy there was extremely helpful and took the time to show me around and explain how a balance job is done. Sounds like it'll be worth it.
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By MoonShadow - 12 Years Ago
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Where are you located? I'm in Manchester, NH. You might add your location to your tag line or avitar. Chuck
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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Some shops have an adapter for flywheels. If you don't have it now, he may be willing to do it when you have it at a discounted rate or maybe even no additional charge since you had everything else done - ask.
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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Yea this guy has a full line of flywheel adapters and can neutral balance it separately. He included it in with the cost, I just need to bring it to him once I have it. I placed an order for Mummert's billet flywheel today and he said he should have them in stock next week, so hopefully I'll receive mine the week after that.
I was also wanting to order a high-res aluminum intake but Mummert said those wouldn't be in stock for another 8-9 weeks. 
By the way, Mummert is also introducing his own scripted finned valve covers coming in August! Looking forward to seeing what those look like.
EDIT: Picked up a Holley 390cfm carb for a real good deal. Decided to hold onto my Edelbrock 500cfm for another project... That should make Charlie happy. Anyways, some may say the 390 is too small, but I think it's going to help low end throttle response and torque. This is a truck after all. Opinions are welcome!
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By mctim64 - 12 Years Ago
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I see you have the HD truck rods, this may have something to do with your pistons so far down in the hole as they are slightly shorter than the standard EBU rods. .045 is a lot to take off the deck. If it's already done just watch for you intake alignment if it hasn't been done yet you might just have the shop take .020" off the deck and use the steel shim gaskets this will give you a quench area of .050". Around .035"-.040" is best (IMO) but .050" ain't bad. You will still need to watch the intake alignment and maybe make your own gaskets, remember those heads you have are milled .050" and have already been cut on the intake side.
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By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
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mctim64 (5/15/2012)
I see you have the HD truck rods, this may have something to do with your pistons so far down in the hole as they are slightly shorter than the standard EBU rods.
Good 'catch' in spotting the truck rods, Tim! 292 HD rods, pistons with standard 292 piston pin height... problem!
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By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
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bergmanj (5/9/2012)
Matt2491,
By the looks of the various piston / rod combinations, I see a large variation in the looks of the large-end counterweight (balancing weight).
Regards, JLB
Good observation regarding the large variation in the size of the large end pads, JLB!
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks everyone. Next question: Now that both the deck of the block and Tim's heads are cut perfectly flat, should I run a composition head gasket or steel shim copper gaskets? Which seal better for the long term? More reliable?
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By Hutz 292 - 12 Years Ago
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I just removed a set of head gaskets out of my turbo charged y-block with about 1,500 miles on them under 8-10 lbs of boost and they showed no signs of leaking at all. On the other hand I do torque them down to much more than the torque spec. I am running ARP head studs and would highly recommend them especially for long term. They will not stretch and that way when you torque them down you are pulling down on the head and not pulling up on the threads in the head. Plus the top threads are fine so you have more clamping force. Hope this engine runs great for you.
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By matt2491 - 12 Years Ago
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Yo Hutz, what kind of head gaskets were you running?
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By Hutz 292 - 12 Years Ago
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Sorry I meant to tell you I am using fel-pro. They have been working great.
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