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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Previously posted Mar.25th 2011 in the After Markets Heads section as, "Pump Gas Dyno Test." I'm surprised there wasn't more apparent interest shown, at the time, particularly from those clamouring for 4" bores & 400 H.P.! That 337 cu" street engine, tested at approx 393 H.P. & 420 lb.ft. of torque, at a max of 5400 rpm.! ... In comparison, I was just perusing a new cars buyers guide today & noted that one of Gov't Motors new Ls 6.2 L /378 cu. in. Ca-a-o engines, is rated at 400 H.P. & 410 lb.ft. It's a substantially bigger & modern electronically controlled engine, that has little if any more peak power than a revamped version of our favorite 50+ yr old engine... Interesting.
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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The part you're probably missing about that engine is the fuel economy and emissions. Newer engines tend to be able to develop similar power more efficiently and cleanly.
However, I think the fairest Y comparison to that engine would be the Engine Masters engine, which really puts it to shame in the power department. But still if you look at every aspect, it's probably lacking in more areas.
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Charlie: Your comment about emissions is undoubtedly correct.. however your opinion on the EMC engine isn't really relevant, as it's a full out racing engine, not a street engine, tuned for an auto transmission.
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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We have differing opinions about the type of engine the engine masters engine is. I'd call it a hot street engine 
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By pegleg - 12 Years Ago
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The competition rules DO stipulate lower RPM levels for the test than you'd think Paul. They also require both torque number averages and hp averages be considered in the final score. I'm not sure what the limits were that year, Ted would know, but I was surprised at how low they were
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By PF Arcand - 12 Years Ago
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Frank: Not sure where you & Charlie are coming from on this subject?.. My post was about Mummert's "street engine" for a customers Sunliner, in comparison to a 2012 "Catmaro" engine ..nothing to do with the EMC engine mentioned in Charlie's response..
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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I was just trying to be more apples to apples, using another engine to compare raw streetable power. 375ci is much closer to 378 than 337, and the power the 375 produced just makes the Y look a whole lot better.
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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PF Arcand (1/7/2012)
Charlie: Your comment about emissions is undoubtedly correct.. however your opinion on the EMC engine isn't really relevant, as it's a full out racing engine, not a street engine, tuned for an auto transmission.Paul. Seeing as the EMC engine was my baby, I’ll throw this out there. I’m with Charley’s assessment that it is indeed a street engine. It idled fine at 900 rpms and the potential for a slower idle was there if not concerned about long term camshaft lobe wear. The dual plane intake had a lot to do with the low rpm idling characteristics as well as the carb and spacer combination which was finely tuned for this combination. With a small stall converter, this engine would have been right at home in front of an automatic trans with no drivability issues as the manifold vacuum at idle was good. In my book there are only two qualifiers for a street engine and that is for it to run on pump fuel and give a reasonable level of dependability for everyday driving. The EMC engine had both of these and some to spare. How an engine is cammed will to a large degree dictate the transmission and the rest of the driveline particulars. The 2010 EMC engine was revamped last year with higher compression and increased camming and now resides between the frame rails of the roadster. It no longer fits my definition for a street engine as it now requires higher octane fuel than is normally available at the pump. Still idles just fine at 1000 rpms and the amount of torque straight off at idle is phenomenal to say the least. Power output has been increased to the point that drive line breakage is now coming to the forefront.
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By Ivan M. Thoen - 12 Years Ago
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Ted (1/9/2012)
It idled fine at 900 rpms and the potential for a slower idle was there if not concerned about long term camshaft lobe wear.
Ted,
Can you briefly address this concern?
Happy New Year. Is 2012 the year of the 427 Y-Block?
Thanks,
Ivan
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Ivan M. Thoen (1/9/2012)
Ted (1/9/2012)
It idled fine at 900 rpms and the potential for a slower idle was there if not concerned about long term camshaft lobe wear.Ted, Can you briefly address this concern? Cam lobe wear any time the rpms are low enough that oil splash is not prevalent is always a concern in any flat tappet engine. Modern valve spring pressures simply aggravate this. Raising the idle rpms is simply a quick way around a potential issue. To a large degree, this is why new camshafts are broken in at 2000-2500 rpms. For my own engines, it’s simply prudent to keep the rpms just high enough that the cam and tappets are getting adequate oil in those instances where the engine may be idling for longer periods of time. In the EMC engines case, the engine would idle at 750 rpms but there was no need to stress the valve train components by letting the engine idle for long periods of time there so the idle is simply set at 900 rpms. You’ll have to remember that particular engine was running over 400 pounds of over the nose valve spring pressure in the first EMC competition and that requires a steady stream of lubricant. That camshaft after two years of dyno competition still looks ‘new’ and I’d have no issue in using it in another engine if the opportunity arose. A good example of low rpm cam wear are the big block scrubs (Chevies) that the farmers use in their pick ups. Prolonged idling simply wastes the camshafts in short order and that’s primarily due to the increased low rpm loading (lifters dragging the lobes) and the reduced oil being splashed about.
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By Richard Head - 12 Years Ago
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Ted (1/10/2012)
A good example of low rpm cam wear are the big block scrubs (Chevies) that the farmers use in their pick ups. Prolonged idling simply wastes the camshafts in short order and that’s primarily due to the increased low rpm loading (lifters dragging the lobes) and the reduced oil being splashed about.
Are you suggesting that the same doesn't happen to BBF and Dodges in the same situation?? Or do farmers only use BBC in their pickups?
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By Don Woodruff - 12 Years Ago
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BBC are some what noted for cam problems. I have heard (not verified personally) they have lifter bore, cam lobe alignment problems.
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By John Mummert - 12 Years Ago
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Richard Head (1/10/2012)
Ted (1/10/2012)
A good example of low rpm cam wear are the big block scrubs (Chevies) that the farmers use in their pick ups. Prolonged idling simply wastes the camshafts in short order and that’s primarily due to the increased low rpm loading (lifters dragging the lobes) and the reduced oil being splashed about.Are you suggesting that the same doesn't happen to BBF and Dodges in the same situation?? Or do farmers only use BBC in their pickups?
Richard "Dick" Head: Are you seriously suggesting that BBC's DON'T have oiling problems????????????????? Try to find a std/std crank for one.
Anyway, one of the questions that should be asked about a street engine is cost. What is the budget? Parts can add up pretty fast.
Next, how much power do you need? I see T Buckets with Blown big blocks. Yeah they're driven on the street but is that a street set-up?
The term Streetable is very ambiguous and means something different to every car person.
I don't like a street engine that needs 3000RPM to start running hard but I also find an engine that falls on its face at 4800 boring.
Maybe the best thing to look for is return on investment. Does the engine do what I want it to do? Was it worth the $$ spent? There is definitely a point of diminishing returns. Some parts cost a lot of money and add very little in power. Some parts reduce driveability without adding much to street performance (2000-6000 RPM) IMO
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By Richard Head - 12 Years Ago
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John Mummert (1/10/2012)
Richard Head (1/10/2012)
Ted (1/10/2012)
A good example of low rpm cam wear are the big block scrubs (Chevies) that the farmers use in their pick ups. Prolonged idling simply wastes the camshafts in short order and that’s primarily due to the increased low rpm loading (lifters dragging the lobes) and the reduced oil being splashed about.Are you suggesting that the same doesn't happen to BBF and Dodges in the same situation?? Or do farmers only use BBC in their pickups? Richard "Dick" Head: Are you seriously suggesting that BBC's DON'T have oiling problems????????????????? Try to find a std/std crank for one.
Not at all, I was asking if Ted was saying that a Ford or a Dodge wouldn't have the same problem as the Chevy if idled for a long time. And do the Farmers only use Chevies in their trucks?? (Ted's words). I don't know or care if a Chevy has oiling problems.
I just wanted to know about the "prolonged idling"...
And why Farmers only use BBC...
Simple question, no need to get your Panties in a twist, Big Boy.
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By Ted - 12 Years Ago
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Richard Head (1/10/2012)
Ted (1/10/2012)
A good example of low rpm cam wear are the big block scrubs (Chevies) that the farmers use in their pick ups. Prolonged idling simply wastes the camshafts in short order and that’s primarily due to the increased low rpm loading (lifters dragging the lobes) and the reduced oil being splashed about.Are you suggesting that the same doesn't happen to BBF and Dodges in the same situation?? Or do farmers only use BBC in their pickups?
For clarification purposes, all the major vehicle brands are used by farmers in this area. All those with flat tappet cams have cam lobe wear issues related to prolonged idling. The big block scrubs are just simply much worse in that particular wear department than the rest of them. Even the small block scrubs ‘had’ a notable issue with long term idling but the big block scrubs are far above the rest for wasted camshaft lobes when allowed to idle for prolonged periods. I say ‘had’ because many of those flat tappet cammed engines are being replaced by roller cammed engines. The perceived problem in that area is slowly disappearing as a result. I’ll add that for the racing big block scrubs, redrilling the lifter bores in the OEM blocks and realigning them with bronze bushings is a pretty standard operation that corrects some major factory machining issues in that area.
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By marvh - 12 Years Ago
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One thing that is not known by many people is that farmers use their trucks as trailer haulers whether it be for livestock or a large machinery flat bed have to have an engine able to pull the load.
If a farmer buys a Ford they will spend the extra money to buy the diesel engine as there is no comparison between a gasoline engine and a diesel engine for lugging power and the Ford diesel has been around for about 20 years in the HD pickups so has proven itself.
The same can be said about the Dodge Cummins engine as that is a quality engine also, just the rest of the truck is suspect.
When it come to farmer wanting a Chev their choice is limited as chev never has had a quality diesel engine so the alternative is the BB gasoline engine. A SB engine will not last in this work.
marv
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By NoShortcuts - 12 Years Ago
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Welcome to the site, Dick.
No question is viewed or treated as 'stupid' here.
Sometimes individuals with much more knowledge and experience do need to be asked for clarification about what they said... or WHY they said it.
What we don't do on this site is belittle others' statements or each other. That means, NO name calling...
With only 54 visits to the site, you have been very active having already accomplished 16 posts.
Having been here for awhile, and having used the search function extensively, my view is that there are a large number of very knowledgeable (in some cases EXTREMELY knowledgeable) and very hands-on experienced individuals who GENEROUSLY share what they've done and learned over time with those of us who have a lot to learn and don't want to take the time do it by trial and error or wasting time, energy, and money.
IF you stay with us for awhile, I suspect that you'll learn to write a bit differently. 
Regards,
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By Missouri Mike - 12 Years Ago
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NoShortcuts Very well put. Mike
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By Richard Head - 12 Years Ago
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NoShortcuts (1/11/2012)
What we don't do on this site is belittle others' statements or each other. That means, NO name calling...
Seriously?? Where did I "belittle others' statements or each other". If that is what you perceived that was not my intent. Name calling???
NoShortcuts (1/11/2012)
With only 54 visits to the site, you have been very active having already accomplished 16 posts.
I joined this site in June 2011. I have visited this site many more times than the 54 indicated ~ once per day. I just don't log on every time so it doesn't get counted. It also doesn't count how many times I visit if I stay logged in for a few days. I didn't realize there was a quota. If that is the case then I will continue to lurk in the back ground. Wouldn't be much of a party if no one showed up.
All this over a simple question. Thanks for your straight answers Ted and Marv.
My apologies to Paul for the detour from the original post.
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By charliemccraney - 12 Years Ago
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The "no need to get your panties in a twist, big boy." statement could be interpreted negatively, particularly if we're not familiar with your personality, and the person it appears to be directed at does engine work for a living and is well respected in the Y-Block community so he's seen much more than a hobbyist ever will. Don't go into hiding just try to be more aware of the stuff you write.
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By Richard Head - 12 Years Ago
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Thanks Charlie for pointing that out. I wrote that jokingly. Obviously it didn't go over to well. I am well aware of John and his business and accomplishments and have bought numerous items from Him. I am also waiting anxiously for the Jardin/Mummert headers for the 55/56's.
Sorry John, I don't think you were panties. But don't get them in a twist if you ever have the desire to try some on... 
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