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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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I have been struggling yesterday afternoon and all day today with the stock linkage throttle linkage on the 57 Bird Fordomatic and progressive linkage for the 3x2 carbs. The combined spring resistance of the 3 accel pumps in the carbs is enough to limit the secondaries from opening and full throttle on the primary. There are no return springs on the progressive linkage. When attempting full throttle the spring tension actuates the throttle control rod off its detent at about half throttle and the carb link rod stops moving with the secondaries still closed even though there is pedal travel left. Anyone have some suggestions or illuminations?
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By aussiebill - 13 Years Ago
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MarkMontereyBay (8/31/2011)
I have been struggling yesterday afternoon and all day today with the stock linkage throttle linkage on the 57 Bird Fordomatic and progressive linkage for the 3x2 carbs. The combined spring resistance of the 3 accel pumps in the carbs is enough to limit the secondaries from opening and full throttle on the primary. There are no return springs on the progressive linkage. When attempting full throttle the spring tension actuates the throttle control rod off its detent at about half throttle and the carb link rod stops moving with the secondaries still closed even though there is pedal travel left. Anyone have some suggestions or illuminations?Somethings back the front, any pics mark.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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The Demon carb I have has a very stiff internal return spring - so it does the same thing. Makes the Ford-O-Matic "overtravel" slot active before the main throttle. So I put a locking stop in the slot - bolt through a thick washer. 
But ....then the kickdown lever - at right in the photo - doesn't have enough travel. I've been experimenting with a bolt-on arm extension to get more downward movement of the operating rod - but no complete answer yet.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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Steve, you pretty well nailed my problem. Your photo shows it perfectly. I was thinking of doing the same bolt down on the slide as you have done. Kind of a half-way fix. I was trying to determine if any trans damage would result having the kickdown restricted. I learned to drive in a 57 Fordo and know how to shift it down to low over 25 or so to get second gear and then shift it back to drive for third. At this point that would be fine. I really need to get my carbs dialed in and if something comes to light later about the kickdown then I will deal with it.
Thanks, getting jammed up with problems like these is frustrating. Annoying time killers. Without this forum I would be up the veritable sh%$ creek without a paddle.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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Mark - I think the way the kickdown in the fordo works - is that the operating rod is rotating a lever on the tranny that raises the regulated pressure in a "comparator" circuit. When that comparator circuit matches rear pump pressure(?) or something like that - the transmission kicks down. Anyway.......it isn't controlling the band apply pressure - only the comparator. Its not like an AOD or something like that where slippage occurs - it just won't "power" downshift without a comand from the shift lever. I tried to send you a PM - but it says your box is full.......
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By paul2748 - 13 Years Ago
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I had the same type of problem with just a stock set up - maybe a worn detent? I put another spring on it (making two) and it works okay, downshift also.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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I did put a bolt and nut, washer on the kickdown detent slider. That took care of much of the problem but I spent all day today rearranging the progressive linkage to get the geometry right enough so I can get full throttle with the secondaries open. That meant a lot of trial and error including searching Google Images for Y blocks with 3x2 and progressive linkage. Once that was done it meant more time re-doing the fuel lines to clear the linkage. Tedious stuff. Lots of quality time with a tubing bender, cutter and talking to myself. I did start it but immediately ran into fuel pressure problems. No fuel leaks though. I am using a Spectre low pressure fuel regulator which once out of the packaging revealed it was made in Korea. Doesn't seem to be reliable or working properly. Have to adjust it up to 5PSI to get any fuel to the carbs and it isn't enough. Will start and run now for about 15 to 20 seconds then runs out of fuel. Runs like crap. Missfiring, hard to start, had to prime it several times to get it started the first several times. Worried there was/is contamination or blockage in the regulator. Will get back to it again to tomorrow to figure it out. Local auto parts store owner/old school rat/hot rodder with a 30 Coupe with 4 Strombergs on a Flathead uses a low pressure electric fuel pump that has a 1 to 4 PSI range. Doesn't use a regulator.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 13 Years Ago
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My personal 2 cents - get a good mechanical pump and stick with that. The FE engine pumps fit and work well (assuming you don't want a vacuum assist unit) so one off a late sixties 428 police interceptor engine will do fine. They are virtually identical to the Holley 80 GPH mechanical pumps (which is graphed below) that are still available too. 
The number to know is 30 GHP -at pressure - will feed 300HP (the police engines were 335 HP rated). The line to the carbs can be 5/16 (at pressure) - think of how small the needle/seat orfice is - but the suction line back to the tank would work better at 3/8.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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Steve,
The TBird mechanical pump was/is working fine before the intake/carb change. I checked the flow on the inlet side of the pressure regulator yesterday. I will stick with it until I find what the problem is. Going to start by checking fuel bowl on the center carb, disconnect the secondary linkage to make sure they are not opening prematurely. They have no idle circuits. I didn't modify the center carb per Ted's instructions. I put a power valve block off on the spark delay port an block the upper port to the distributor on it as well. I hooked manifold vacuum to the distributor. I also need to check the fuel filter.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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Update. Found the major problem which was a clogged fuel filter. Simple things can lay a person away. Also found the secondaries not closing completely. Readjusted and added a light weight return spring. Replaced the power valve block off on the spark delay just because. Still won't run below the 5psi setting on the Spectre fuel regulator but it runs and isn't flooding the carbs. Tire shop here found some Michelin Pilot Exaltos and had them shipped in so new American Torque Thrusts will get mounted maybe this weekend. Oh yes....while I was running the engine topping the coolant and adjusting the carbs, a header pipe burned through the rubber brake line running from the Midland power booster to the brakes. Tomorrow I turn the age to officially qualify for Medicaire so taking the rest of the day and weekend off from this project.
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By The Master Cylinder - 13 Years Ago
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Mark, you may want to invest in a fuel pressure gauge, doesn't sound like your regulator is, ah, regulating. I run ~ 3.5 - 4 psi on my 'bergs. They don't like much more than that. I don't know about the Ford/Holley/Chandler Grove/whatevers...
Keep fiddling, you'll get it. That's all part of the fun.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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I have a Spectre fuel gauge but I haven't installed it as he quality is obviously low-rent and I trust it less than the regulator. I have a liquid filed gauge coming from Vintage Speed. That should tell the story. I am using linkage that came with a used manifold and carbs I bought off the Ford Barn classified. Funky old kind of Edelbrock/Speedway/Stromberg cheapo set up that I cleaned and polished up a little.. Looking to change it to ball bearing Heim joint deal that will be smoother and less likely to bind or fail. I replaced the burnt rubber brake line last night with a longer length of PolyAmor to route it away from the header.Got my Michelin Pilots mounted and balanced on the new Torque Thrust and got them on the car. Ordered the wrong thread size chrome lug nuts but will bleed the brakes and take some photos of the car this weekend to post. The weather is good here with extra large surf and people have been coming to the beach from all directions.
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By The Master Cylinder - 13 Years Ago
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Mark take some pictures of your carbs and progressive linkage also. I would like to see your setup.
Here is a shot of mine, tho hard to see as there is a lot of Shtuff in the way.
Waves are pretty big down here, also. But it's cold out for September, ~72°.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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Are you using a Lokar throttle/kickdown cable setup? It looks far more functional than the stock 57Bird. Here are some photos from today, the sun came out for a short time but the overcast rolled back in today. More sun tomorrow I hope. After tweeking a few things the Bird started fairly easily this morning. I let it warm up and actually took it around the neighborhood for a few minutes. Amazing to me, no hesitation or sudden stalling. Still using the power valve that came in the Speedway carb overhaul kit. No idea what size it is. I have an assortment of new power valves to use but maybe I got lucky. Just ran it on the primary, too nervous to try the secondaries today. Having problems adjusting the electric choke interfering with the fuel line. Need to do more work on the throttle return springs. The Magnaflow mufflers(?) are loud but after tuning and resetting the timing it's quieter. They are growing on me. The Yblock idle with the Mummert cam is awesome!
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By The Master Cylinder - 13 Years Ago
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Yes, I'm using the Lokar cables for throttle and kickdown. See if you can configure your return spring similar to this picture. That way you only have to use one spring. Makes it a little congested with two springs and it's easier on the right leg.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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My linkage is different. It doesn't have the throttle lever extending out laterally from the center carb shaft. I tried assembling it the way shown in the photo and couldn't get enough leverage for the gas pedal to act on it. Are you using a Lokar kit with a Fordomatic? Who makes the progressive linkage you have?
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By The Master Cylinder - 13 Years Ago
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I believe the progressive linkage is an old Eelco setup. I'm using a C-4 trans with a Flat-o Adapter. http://www.flat-o.com
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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Is the Lokar stuff a kit or did you have to piece it together. For example, is the throttle/kickdown mounting bracket on the intake manifold a Lokar piece? What gas pedal are you using with the cable? The Lokar website doesn't list much for early Birds.
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By The Master Cylinder - 13 Years Ago
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The throttle cable and kick down cables are bought separate. The peddle is a spoon type (I'll see if I have a picture). The bracket is made by yours truly. Oh, and I guess I should mention, my set up isn't in a 'Bird, but my '55 Customline Ranchwagon.
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By The Master Cylinder - 13 Years Ago
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Mark, here is the gas peddle...
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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Thanks for the info. I know the spoon style gas pedals. I think making a bracket would be a straight forward thing. The gas pedal is another deal. Maybe an early Mustang style from Lokar.
Does Mooneyes still make those gas pedals from the 60's?
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By Talkwrench - 13 Years Ago
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Yes Im sure Mooneyes do still make them.. well a Chinese company for them [?] look on their website.
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By MarkMontereyBay - 13 Years Ago
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Here is a short YouTube video today of the Tbird running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcMNubLjiNA
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