|
By smchop - 14 Years Ago
|
|
I was referred here off the HAMB, by a member here and would like to pose some questions to you all. Motor is going in my 49' Ford, and I have 3 Y's to start. I have a 272 I want to use for mock up and as initial runner. Then I got a deal on a 312 block and crank, a factory dual 4's aluminum manifold with Holley 4000 teapots, a big as isky cam that was ground for kens and leslies, that I wont use (to big I think for the street). All the misc. oil pumps etc. 2 of the motors were complete the 312 was not. So....... Do I build that 312, or do I find a 292 and have the crank turned down and build that. Two of the head sets I got were the larger 1.92 valve heads one set is an ECZ-G heads. I want decent horsepower, looking around 300 if it can be reliable, cause I know I'll beat on it. I'd like to say money is no issue, but it is, but I wont skimp if thats what I need. Hell I got a 46' knuckle motor that I have 4k into and still have a little to go, and still wont have any serious horsepower. So if I gotta sell a kid I will. Can I get some input and advice. PS, I am new to these motors (cars) and fell in love with the Y-block, sound, looks, all of it. So lay it on me, still searching around the site, but would really like a little interaction with members. Thanks.
|
|
By Oldmics - 14 Years Ago
|
So you have a complete 272 and a 312 block and crank? Any 312 rods?.
What is the third "Y" engine that you have and its condition?
Oldmics
|
|
By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
|
|
Block, crank, 2-4 intake, G heads, add pistons and rods and it sounds like you have everything you need to build the 312. Anything else can be donated from one of your other engines. See if you can find the specs on the cam. It might not be too big and will save some cash.
|
|
By smchop - 14 Years Ago
|
|
The other 272 was another runner, that I picked up for parts for the 312, it had the ECZ heads, timing cover, oil pan/pump, etc. I have rods but am short 1, so I dont know if that makes them usless or if I can hunt down just one. He gave me a set of .030 pistons for the 312 but I have no info on those, the cam I still have the spec sheet on, I'll post it when I have access to it and a computer at the same time. Question is should I have the heads worked or jump on the waiting list for a set of the new aluminum ones! Thanks so far.
|
|
By Hoosier Hurricane - 14 Years Ago
|
|
If you are going to use the 312 crank, you will have to use 312 rods, either ECZ or C1TE. A 272 will have EBU rods, too long for a stock 312 piston. Individual rods are available, I'll sell them individually.
|
|
By smchop - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Thats perfect, cause I didnt know my chances of finding 1 individual 312 rod. What about the guys that are going to the new H or I beam rods? Necessary or not on a street motor?
|
|
By speedpro56 - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Not really necessary when building a good street engine, even ok with some strip use but I would update the rod bolts to ARPs or something of a better grade than factory.
|
|
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
|
|
smchop (1/1/2011)
.......What about the guys that are going to the new H or I beam rods? Necessary or not on a street motor?A set of fully prepped truck rods with new bolts are adequate for most street driven purposes and can be had in both the common Y-Block lengths (long:292 & short:312). If going with any kind of custom piston, then make it a point to use the longest length connecting rod possible. As far as I know, John Mummert has the only ‘new’ replacement connecting rods for the Y. As another alternative, aftermarket rods for the scrub engines in both H-beam and I-beam designs can be fitted to the Y with some work but typically requires a custom piston or reworking a readily available piston so that both the pin size and pin location are correct. These same aftermarket rods also requires that the crankshaft rod journals be turned down to a scrub journal size and the rod widths themselves being trimmed down to work on a Y crankshaft.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
|
|
For the new guy, scrub = Chevy.
|
|
By smchop - 13 Years Ago
|
|
A set of fully prepped truck rods with new bolts are adequate for most street driven purposes and can be had in both the common Y-Block lengths (long:292 & short:312). If going with any kind of custom piston, then make it a point to use the longest length connecting rod possible. So I can use the longer rods, say out of a 272, would that increase the stroke even more, but would need a custom piston to work, is this correct? Yeah, I picked up on scrub=cheby, thanks.
|
|
By PF Arcand - 13 Years Ago
|
|
If the the .030 over pistons are good, why not go with them & the stk 312 rods? Displacement would be 317 cu in. Custom pistons are going to be fairly costly...
|
|
By Hoosier Hurricane - 13 Years Ago
|
|
You can use the 272 rods with the 312 crank with special pistons, or you can machine the tops of standard flat top pistons .070 to use the longer rods. Longer rods will not increase the stroke, stroke is determined by the crankshaft.
|
|
By smchop - 13 Years Ago
|
|
I dont know what I was thinking, I know stroke is controlled by the crank, dumb moment. I need to check those pistons, I'm not used to using a used piston, in harleys we really dont get the chance, the pistons usually are ruined. I got the specs on that cam also. Its an Isky cam, #BL #4. Intake opens 28, closes 66. Exhaust oepns 28, closes 76. Valve clearance is .018, lift is .420 Seems a little big to me for a street cam, but thats why I'm here.
|
|
By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
|
|
That's not too big at all. It's a dual pattern with more duration on the exhaust, 274 intake, 284 exhaust.. I think you have the exhaust events backwards. Does it say anything about the duration at .050"?
|
|
By smchop - 13 Years Ago
|
|
charliemccraney (1/3/2011)
That's not too big at all. It's a dual pattern with more duration on the exhaust, 274 intake, 284 exhaust.. I think you have the exhaust events backwards. Does it say anything about the duration at .050"?No info about duration at .050. I'll try and put up some pics of the spec card on the cam and maybe a shot of the pistons and see what the concencus is on condition to run them. So now back to the heads, should I send them in and have them worked or line up on the aluminum ones? My first action was to take the block in have it cleaned, magnafluxed?, and sonic tested to make sure it is good to go. Then I was going to look into boring and surfacing and if affordable or neccessary line honed and have the crank polished and work on putting together a short block. Sound like a plan?
|
|
By charliemccraney - 13 Years Ago
|
The heads depend on your performance goals and pockets. The aluminum heads will definitely give you an edge in the higher performance area, but the Gs will be quite adequate for the street. The testing done so far indicates that the aluminum heads will even improve the low end when compared to as cast G heads. However, I haven't yet heard any real world performance reviews when used on a mild street engine.
.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic44066-11-1.aspx
.
In the dyno graphs, testing starts at 2500rpm and at that point, torque is better, but what happens below that, where a street engine will spend most of its time. Is it worthwhile for you? Only you can decide.
|
|
By smchop - 13 Years Ago
|
|
So I need to get moving on this project and have a quick question. How much can I expect to spend on machine work on my block? I know it'll vary, but I'm looking ballpark. Cleaning, magnaflux, sonic tested, surfaced, line honed, boring. Anything I forgot?
|
|
By Hoosier Hurricane - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Brandon: Reply to your PM sent.
|
|
By smchop - 13 Years Ago
|
|
So I didnt bail, just got stuck having to put money elsewhere for a few. Should I rebuild my teapots on the dual four manifold? Or just look into something else. How do I know if that setup is an original, or something just put together. Any input on carbs? Thanks.
|
|
By Hoosier Hurricane - 13 Years Ago
|
|
'56 dual teapots have EDB-9510-C stamped in the mounting flange under the fuel inlet. '57 duals had ECJ-9510-AA or ECJ-9510-AB. All other stamped numbers are from '56 single carb applications.
|
|
By smchop - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Thanks John, I'll get to checking those out. I'd kinda like to run them but have no experience rebuilding car carbs. So I'll see how confident I feel when the time comes. Right now I'm doing a little work on my chassis. I'm looking to fit it into my 49' Ford and not sure what to do about motor mounts, I wanna cheat and see if someone has a kit but no luck so far. I'm ordering my trans adapter from Mummert hopefully Monday so I can get the drive train in. Any words of wisdom there will help. I was planning on using the side mounts, not the truck front mount. Thanks all you guys for your help and input, I hope to have something to show you for progress soon.
|
|
By smchop - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Hoosier Hurricane (2/20/2011)
'56 dual teapots have EDB-9510-C stamped in the mounting flange under the fuel inlet. '57 duals had ECJ-9510-AA or ECJ-9510-AB. All other stamped numbers are from '56 single carb applications.Well must have the 57' duals as they are stamped ECJ-9510-AB, good, bad, indifferent? Still unsure about running them, like I said I have no experience in rebuilding a carb set like this. Any advice.
|
|
By Hutz 292 - 13 Years Ago
|
|
I happen to have a brand new set of h-beam rods. I had a rod bolt on one of my rods come loose. (most likely because it did not get tightened). They are scat h-beam and bad ass. They would not break up a kit to give me one. They said it could be a few weeks until they produce more and I needed one right away so I bought a set of 8. They are all balanced and all you would have to do is order one more if you have a little time. Will give you smoken deal if you are interested. I have a picture off them on my post. Hutz 292 under F100 makeover. There are more pics there to. Let me know if you are interested in those rods. I have no use for these seven and would love to see someone else use them.
|
|
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Hutz 292 (3/29/2011)
I happen to have a brand new set of h-beam rods. ....... I have no use for these seven and would love to see someone else use them.Hutz – You’ll do better posting your rods in the classifieds. Be sure to include the length, what rod journal they fit, pin size and any other information you have for them.
|
|
By Ted - 13 Years Ago
|
|
smchop (3/29/2011)
Well must have the 57' duals as they are stamped ECJ-9510-AB, good, bad, indifferent? Still unsure about running them, like I said I have no experience in rebuilding a carb set like this. Any advice.Take a good look at them and insure that the primary side fuel discharge nozzles on both carbs are intact and not melted. If they are in good shape, then you have the ideal Teapot carbs for a dual quad setup. These carbs do have weaker springs in the secondaries by design so be sure to keep those in place. If the color is still on the springs, they should be yellow. These carbs essentially rebuild like other Teapots which means attention to detail in the cleaning of them and the reassembly of the various components. Be sure to test the secondary diaphragms assemblies before putting them back on the carb body itself. And be cognizant that the gasket that goes between the secondary diaphragm housing assembly and the carb body only seals one way but can be installed in a variety of positions. On this particular pair of carburetors, if one secondary diaphragm is not working due to a vacuum leak within the assembly, the assembly on the other carb will also fail to open.
|
|
By Oldmics - 13 Years Ago
|
|
Ted is absolutly correct in his suggestions regarding through inspection of the discharge/venturi area. Pay especially close attention to the brass venturi reduction rings pressed onto the nozzles.I have seen them melted from backfires.They can be machined as I have done so on a few carbs that needed it. Course you could just send me the whole setup and forget about that silly dual quad thang  Oldmics
|