Posting unposted heads


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By grovedawg - 14 Years Ago
I read in another thread that someone has heard of modifying unposted heads by drilling through the top of the head, screwing a stud down into the head to the top of the combustion chamber, and maybe threading a locking nut on top of the head to keep it in place (maybe even welding the top of the stud to reduce height?)



Has anyone modified their unposted heads with a home-made post to help support the top of the combustion chamber?



I've got big letter ECZ-G heads that are unposted and would love to know of a plausible remedy to posting my heads.... Smile



Thanks, Ryan
By RB - 14 Years Ago
Jerry Christenson has done this modification. It is pretty straightforward. As I remember he drilled down through one of the rocker stand holes, enlarged it for a 7/16 stud then redrilled the hole for the rocker stand bolt.. Probably not worth the effort unless you are running high compression, nitrous, or a supercharger.
By MoonShadow - 14 Years Ago
I saw something about using threaded rod screwed in and then the head deck surface machined smooth. Sounded like an idea. But only needed for high compression or blowers. Chuck in NH
By DANIEL TINDER - 14 Years Ago
I have a page from an old Popular Hot Rodding (?) magazine titled "Bench-Racing Ford's Y-Block", composed of letters sent in re: their Y-Block project series (one was from Jerry C.). It includes instructions for reinforcing cylinders #1 & 8 only (where gasket failures were most frequent) by drilling/tapping through the rocker shaft stud hole, and into the water jacket. Sounds fairly simple/straightforward.
By Vic Correnti - 14 Years Ago
Try a search on "Adding a post to a head" This is the way I posted my heads last year. I did not start getting into head gasket issues with a 312 cu in until I added more then 125 HP of nitrous. I would think that posting is not necessary unless you have high cylinder pressures.
By Ted - 14 Years Ago

I have a set of small letter unposted G heads that have been heavily angle milled (0.175”) and these have an extra post installed in each head. The additional posts were added such that they go through the pads under the rocker stands and between the rocker stand bolts. Because these heads are currently installed on an engine, I don’t have pictures of this particular post installation. But there are some pics demonstrating a similar installation in the thread that is linked below. I’ll add that the adding of any extra posts needs to be done before any head milling is done so any preloading or stressing outwards of the decks can be relieved at the time of milling.

And here’s a direct link to the post that Vic refers us to.

Adding a post to a head

By grovedawg - 14 Years Ago
My G heads have already had .030'' milled off them, and we're going to cut them once more. As little as possible. Hopefully they'll clean up with only a little more milling, but, that's why I'm concerned about them not being posted. Thanks
By 314 - 14 Years Ago
if your not doing anything special with your engine you have nothing to worry about.the 272 special in 55 had .035 milled at the factory.
By Ted - 14 Years Ago

Compression ratios and keeping detonation at bay is the key on the G heads when attempting to mill the unposted varieties more than 0.025”.  The 1957 shop manual only recommends 0.010” for cleanup on the G heads so the factory engineers were cognizant of what they had.   When milling the unposted G heads, 9½:1 should be considered the limit for the static compression ratio while also keeping ignition timimg curve attributes reasonable.  That means using a timing light on an accurate damper and not ‘power timing’.  With this in mind, then getting away with more than the customary maximum 0.025” mill on the unposted G heads may be doable.  I’ll let you know more on that as the ported and unposted G heads that are going to be used for the brunt of the exhaust testing have already been milled 0.055”.  Consider this a test within a test.

 

I’ll add that the ECZ-G heads are in a class by themselves when it comes to milling.  The ECL-B and the ECG-A heads would be the 1955 292 heads while the 182HP Special heads for the 272 engines have these same casting numbers.  But as member 314 mentions, the 182HP heads are identified by the 0.866” thick measuring pads on those.  The ECZ-C heads (1956) as well as the earlier 272 heads are cast differently internally and are more robust when it comes to milling than the G heads.  Most efforts at heavier milling from a performance standpoint typically concentrates on the G heads simply because they are in the large valve class and have the smallest combustion chambers available versus what was available on the earlier intermediate valve sized heads.  An unposted G head unfortunately has a pair of deck surfaces within the water jacket area that are internally unsupported which is the root of the problem.  The posted heads addressed this problem specifically.

By grovedawg - 14 Years Ago
John Mummert (10/29/2009)




Drill straight down and tap to the size bolt you're using.




Thanks again for everyones input. I appreciate it!





How can I post the inside combustion chambers?
By Hoosier Hurricane - 14 Years Ago
Dawg:

I tried posting this last night but it wouldn't go.  I'll try again.

On the surface of the head for #3 and #6 cylinders, just outside the fire ring of the head gasket chamber opening, drill a 5/16 hole perpendicular to the head surface.  Tap it 3/8-16 and screw a piece of 3/8 allthread firmly into the opposite wall of the head.  Cut the allthread off a few thousandths long, pein it, and fill off the high spots.  The gasket will seal any coolant that tries to get past the allthread.

JJJ

By grovedawg - 14 Years Ago
Wow! John, you're actually saying to bring the all thread rod from the bottom up through the head where it makes contact with the engine block! That's the solution on the #2 and #3 chambers? The #1 and #4 chambers can be modified from the top down through the rocker arm stands and won't penetrate through the head surface.



Obviously I want to have any modified posts done before I go for the final milling on the heads. So here goes the process:



1. Drill through the surface. Either just off center on the tops through the rocker arms. Or, just outside the fire ring on the #2 and #3 chambers.

2. Kiss the opposing surface to create a flat landing on the opposing wall for the all thread bolt to contact.

3. Tap the newly drilled hole.

4. Thread the all thread rods and JB weld them in place.

5. Do a final cut/file on the all thread rod to flush it with the surface.

6. Take the heads into my machinist for the final milling to ensure the heads are flat, and will play nicely with my block! Smile



Any points that I may have missed? It's probably overkill for my engine, but I figure, if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right the first time so I don't have to wonder in the future.... I'm a perfectionist. Again, thanks for your help.
By Hoosier Hurricane - 14 Years Ago
Dawg:

Not sure of your description.  There is no need to drill through the top of the head with my solution.  Drill through the machined surface, screw in the all thread until it bottoms snugly against the top of the head.  The spotface would be a good idea, I have always slightly rounded the allthread so it would seek a solid seat.  The rest of your proceedure looks good to me.  I have found that the #3 and #6 chambers require this, the others have intake ports that support the chambers.

JJJ

By Ted - 14 Years Ago

Here’s a picture showing the locations of where the factory added the posts to the late ’57 and newer heads. The dotted lines shows the actual post locations while the arrows simply point to the water holes that are used to 'feel' for the posts. Like John, when adding posts to what was originally non posted heads, I’ve only seen it done to the #3 and #6 cylinders but adding the posts to the #1 & #8 cylinders would also be recommended. Although I've only observed this being performed by coming in from the top, adding posts from the deck side does sound less complicated but the decks are likely on the thin side to adequately thread for this. Maybe Vic will comment on if he added his posts from the top or the bottom?

http://www.y-blocksforever.com/forums/Uploads/Images/b3a7980b-1705-44a2-926e-8e79.jpg

And here’s the link to the thread that particular picture comes from along with some more detail.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic6711-3-1.aspx

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic6711.aspx

By grovedawg - 14 Years Ago
Thanks for the pic Ted. I remember seeing that earlier, and that's how I verified that mine weren't the posted variety!



My only concern with coming in from the bottom is it doesn't look like the post being just outside the fire ring it would add any real support above the combustion chamber during the compression strokes... But I fully admit I'm a newb. The other concern is the lack of meat (metal) on the chamber floor to tap and essentially "grab" the all thread rod. Still a newb and completely defer my opinions to the folks who really know what's going on and have done it before.



And it also sounds like John mentioned in the other post on "Adding a Post" that he only does the combustion chambers from the high intake runner, not the lower intake runners (3 and 6?).
By charliemccraney - 14 Years Ago
grovedawg (7/22/2010)




My only concern with coming in from the bottom is it doesn't look like the post being just outside the fire ring it would add any real support above the combustion chamber during the compression strokes...




Think of it kinda like a bridge. A bridge can be built with a real long span between supports. At some point the span becomes so great that it becomes unstable. To stabilize it, add another supporting structure near the middle of the span. That is what you are doing with the threaded rod. Instead of having an unsupported region of say 2", you have now reduced the unsupported region to 1" which will significantly increase it's resistance to flex. Having it positioned next to the fire ring is probably the best strategy because the post will not flex and keep the pressure tight where it counts.
By Vic Correnti - 14 Years Ago
This is what John Mummert suggested to me and what I did. The posts that I added went in the rocker stand above the upper ports, (3 and 6) offset from the center. You are trying to go through right next to a cast wall so you can't go in the middle of the rocker stand. You will try to miss a cast area and be located in the rocker boss. I used 7/16" threaded rod and JB welded at the rocker stand area. Spot faced the roof of the combustion chamber so the bolt hits a clean, flat surface. When the JB weld is set up cut off the thread extending above the  rocker stand. I have not seen any issues on the street. I will be on a chassis dyno Monday morning and see how well they hold during a few nitrous pulls. The last time I was on the dyno rear wheel HP was 363 and 440 lbs of torque. Not bad for a 312 cu in 292 Y-block and 50 year old Henry Ford rods.

By John Mummert - 14 Years Ago
Although I've only done this a few times I have always done 3-6 and 1-8. I just figured if Ford did both I would too. Did just as Vic described. Jerry Christenson guided me through it years ago.