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By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
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I know this topic has come up before, but I found this video on YouTube and thought it might help those who don't know yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciOBt9sALQI&feature=related
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By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
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Tim, Great little video, is that Moss Motors that specializes in English sports cars? I just ordered 10 bottles of additive from CompCams.
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By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
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57FordPU (2/21/2009)
Tim, Great little video, is that Moss Motors that specializes in English sports cars? . Yes, That's the one.
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By Vic Correnti - 16 Years Ago
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Funny that you bring this topic up, I just pulled the cam out of my 312 that had a disagreement with the nitrous at the starting line at last years shootout. I found that the number four cylinder has a intake cam lobe that measures .171 shorter then a good cam lobe and another lobe that read .075 shorter. The first thing that I thought of was that I just started using Valvoline racing oil so I checked a bottle and it says that it has ZDDP in it. I have always been a Penzoil man till last year I switched to Valvoline because I cannot find straight weight Penzoil around here anymore. I use 20W50 in my trucks and if I remember right in a fit of haste I used it the 312 one time, that probably was my cams fatal blow. The good news is that I get to maybe try a different cam grind. The ISKY F-300 is the grind that I have had in the car since 1965 and I am thinking that it's time for a little more mid-range. Has anyone had any experience with the Isky RPM-300 and also the Isky F-300. The duration is 270 in the RPM-300 and 286 degrees in the F-300 and they both have the same lift. I'd hate to loose the low end torque but I think it won't be too noticeable. Vic Correnti
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By HoLun - 16 Years Ago
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that ZDDPlus is way too expensive
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By Johnson Rod - 16 Years Ago
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So is medical insurance...
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By paul2748 - 16 Years Ago
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Rather simplistic, and there are other options Diesel oil for one (even with the new reduced formula there is plenty of ZDDP for a Y) How long this will be I don't know.
Supposedly, any oil rated SM should not be used in a flat tappet engine. I have heard that any oil 30 weight and over still had the required ZDDP, but check the rating.
I checked Castrol 20-50 the other day and it had the SM rating. I use the diesel in my two Y's, will switch to that in my non-roller 302.
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By rgrove - 16 Years Ago
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Guys, what is the risk, if any, of TOO MUCH ZDDP? For example, Ive been running diesel oil (rotella T), but if i added some ZDDP plus (per recommendations), would it hurt anything?
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By mctim64 - 16 Years Ago
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I don't know how much would be too much, but I think (and hope because I do the same thing) that adding a bottle to Rotella is not a problem.
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By 62galxe - 16 Years Ago
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im gonna try valvoline vr1. Valvoline Racing VR1: 75% higher zinc than SM engine oil with a balanced additive package designed to work in both racing and street-legal applications. This product will protect older style push-rod and flat tappet engines. Valvoline provides this product in both multi and mono viscosity grades: SAE 20W-50 (part vv211), straight SAE 50 (part vv235), SAE 10W-30 (part vv205), SAE 30(part vv223), SAE 40 (part vv229), and SAE 60 (part vv241)
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By Y'sGuy61 - 16 Years Ago
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I'm also thinking of running the VR1 20-50 in my Y but won't put it in till summer since it would look like honey at -40. I don't run the truck much in winter anyway unless it's a warm day. Also, there's an engine rebuild shop up here that's just started selling pure Zinc/Phosphourous for flat tappet engines. You only have to add 1 oz. I believe, per oil change and it's supposed to be much more effective than other additives they've been selling. If I'm correct, there's enough in a bottle for 4 oil changes.
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By Vic Correnti - 16 Years Ago
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I read an article that said the Rotella diesel oil was probably NOT the best choice for gas engines since it was designed for the lower RPM diesels. I'm sure if I look hard enough that I could find an opposite opinion. Ted, do you have an opinion on this?
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By 57FordPU - 16 Years Ago
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I have been using Rotella for the past two seasons and even though the ZDDP has been reduced I will continue to use it with the Comp Cams additive. We regularly hit 7000 rpm and hopefully a little more with the new engine and have had no adverse effects so far. We are open to change and I sure will post it if we notice any bearing damage.
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By Nat Santamaria - 16 Years Ago
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Mobil 1 makes a High Mileage Full Synthetic oil in 10w30 and 10w40 grades with a phosphorous level of 1000 (ILSAC SL Approved) I am currently using Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic 10w30 and adding 1 can of ZDDP. I will be switching to Mobil 1 on my next oil change.
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By 56fairlanepost - 16 Years Ago
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I contacted Castrol and got a reply on one of their recommendations for flat tappet cam engines.They make a castrol syntec 20w-50 that has a label on back of container that reads [recommended for classic cars],and states in the e-mail I received[min Zn=0.12=1200 ppm][full synthetic].Iwent to Auto Zone and found the blend recommended,not cheap at 6.50 a qt,but if this is readily available still not a bad choice. Jim
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By 56fairlanepost - 16 Years Ago
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By the way,if you go to the search in this forum ans type in [oil zddp] you will find a wealth of info on the topic.It is all extremely important.Also my understanding of the SM classifiation was ok in the flat tappet engine as long as it was SJ classified also.If there has be a differing opinion please verify,thanks.Jim
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By 56fairlanepost - 16 Years Ago
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You have a valid point,but at least there is a number of products out there to chose from.My understanding of removing zddp was the adverse affect it had on catalitic convertors so it didn't cause premature wear.Jim
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By ejstith - 16 Years Ago
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I have never used anything but Pennzoil in my diesel truck from the time it was brand new goin' on 17 years ago. I used Pennzoil Long Life straight 30 wt. I have never had one minutes problem with the truck in all those years. Pennzoil was bought out by Shell so now I can't find Long Life locally so I switched to Rotella. I guess I'll put that in my '56 also. How much is that additive? I only change oil once a year so it won't put me in the poor house I don't suppose.
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By sundance241 - 16 Years Ago
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Ejstith , Its not the price, i live in Florida also , and i have not been able to find Zddp................Sam West central Florida
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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Vic Correnti (2/23/2009)
I read an article that said the Rotella diesel oil was probably NOT the best choice for gas engines since it was designed for the lower RPM diesels. I'm sure if I look hard enough that I could find an opposite opinion. Ted, do you have an opinion on this? Vic. You asked so here’s my thoughts on diesel oil being used in gasoline engines. I don’t use it in any shape, form, or fashion in this manner simply due to the high level of detergent and the scrubbing action that particular detergent has on bearings and cylinder walls on a gasoline engine. This wear doesn’t happen overnight but when tearing down a multitude of these engines and comparing wear attributes when using known oils, the differences in wear is significant and especially on the bearings. The SM API rating has been discussed heavily in the past and essentially any SM oil with over 30W in its weight classification does still have the SJ amounts of zinc/phosphorus present meaning it’s still good for the older vehicles without the use of additives. For this reason, most engines leaving the shop are supplied with 10W-40 oil with the recommendation to stay on this particular weight of oil. I’m in Texas so I can get away with this in the winter months. As Jim (57fairlanepost) mentions, typing in ZDDP in the search bar located at top of the page will bring up past discussions on the subject and some excellent information regarding modern oils. Here are links to all three pages of just one thread in particular.http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic9285-1.aspx http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic9285-2.aspx http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic9285-3.aspx
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By John Del Bene - 16 Years Ago
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Hi I posted a web site about zddp additive some time ago I bought this product at car show and found this product was not that expensive www.cam-shield.com check out this web site. I hope this info will be helpful. John Del Bene.
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By DANIEL TINDER - 16 Years Ago
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Ted,
What about using Rotella to speed ring break-in? Since it DOES have one type of high ZDDP level for metal-to-metal protection, wouldn't the higher detergent be helpful to avoid cylinder wall glazing? If bearing clearances allowed the use of Rotella's higher viscosity, wouldn't switching to the lower detergent racing type oil AFTER break-in be soon enough to start laying down the traditional ZDDP protective coating that reduces cam/lifter wear?
I see that some brands of high ZDDP racing-type oils offer a break-in formula. What IS the difference?
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By sundance241 - 16 Years Ago
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Cereal Killer , Never seen it on E-pay !!..........Sam.................................Sunshine state !
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By Johnson Rod - 16 Years Ago
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Sam, try this link to get you started...http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ZddPlus-ZDDP-Engine-Oil-Additive-Zinc-and-Phosphorus-4_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQihZ016QQitemZ260334483502QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ht_500wt_1103 (wow, that's long).
I found two brands on E-Bay, ZDDP plus and Motorhead Hi-Z when I did a search for ZDDP.
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By ejstith - 16 Years Ago
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CEREAL KILLER (2/23/2009)
What, they don't have E-Pay in Florida??
Apparently not. I've never heard of it. Is it like PayPal ?
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By Johnson Rod - 16 Years Ago
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I'm thinking that was a play on words... E-pay = E-Bay/PayPal??
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By Ted - 16 Years Ago
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DANIEL TINDER (2/25/2009)
Ted....What about using Rotella to speed ring break-in? Since it DOES have one type of high ZDDP level for metal-to-metal protection, wouldn't the higher detergent be helpful to avoid cylinder wall glazing? If bearing clearances allowed the use of Rotella's higher viscosity, wouldn't switching to the lower detergent racing type oil AFTER break-in be soon enough to start laying down the traditional ZDDP protective coating that reduces cam/lifter wear?Sorry Paul. I don’t use Rotella so I can’t help you there. For most engines, I simply use the same oil for breakin that will be used long term in the engine. For gasoline engines equipped with flat tappet tappet camshafts, that simply means using a gasoline rated oil with a minimum of 1300 ppm zinc/phosphorus. In those cases where I do have to run a breakin oil with less than the optimum amount of zinc/phosphorus, then I simply use ZDDPlus or another similar additive to boost the zddp content back to standard levels. Many of the diesel oils are also rated for gasoline engine use so no problem there as long as the rules in the API bulletin are being adhered to in regards to oil viscosities and the varying contents of zddp. As far as ring seating, just pay particular attention to having the correct finish and cross-hatch on the cylinder walls that matches up to the rings being used. Proper loading is important to ring breakin and this is ideally accomplished by driving the vehicle at varying speeds or on an engine dyno regardless of the oil being used. I see that some brands of high ZDDP racing-type oils offer a break-in formula. What IS the difference? Those breakin oils are for specific engine combinations and the additive packages vary accordingly. Most of these oils are geared towards the racers and are formulated to suit specific needs. The distributors for these specialized products can provide you the specifics for each particular oil but for the majority of most rebuilds, it’s overkill as well as expensive.
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By Gordie T - 16 Years Ago
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Just a few thoughts..I was talking with my friendly parts guy about Rotella and he did mention to me that the zinc is now removed in some of his newer stock. He still had some 5 gal pails of the older stuff with zinc. He did say that he picks up AC/Delco product that has tons of zinc in it that all his old car guys use with any oil. Any GM dealer should be able to get it.
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By Hawk5619 - 16 Years Ago
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I am not trying to sell anyones product but have found this oil to make my Edsel 292 to run smooth. Check out this link: http://www.classiccarmotoroil.com/index.htm
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By Hawk5619 - 16 Years Ago
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www.classiccarmotoroil.com This link should work
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By Jim Rowe - 16 Years Ago
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I will start out by saying I am a Royal Purple representative. They manufacture a premium line of synthetic motors oils.
Royal Purple offers a Break-in oil 10W30 that is a mineral oil base with 2100 PPM of ZDDP. It retails for $8.99 per quart.
After doing a complete engine again a 312 with a TON of money invested in all the right parts, I will use this to break it in.
Yes, I PAID for the oil, I will after break-in use Royal Purple 10W40 which has 1600 PPM of ZDDP. I figure it's cheap insurance, as I want this motor to out live me.
here is the link: www.royalpurple.com/breakin-oil.html
Jim
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