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By alanfreeman - 2 Months Ago
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My '54 Ford is still using 6 volts. I had a lot of difficulty getting the overdrive working when I first put this car together, but I finally got it to work. It worked for awhile but then stopped working again. When bench testing the solenoid, is the plunger supposed to be extended when there is no power to it and retract when powered? Mine works just the opposite as the plunger extends when I apply power to the blue wire and ground the case and then retracts when not powered. I saw online that someone was saying that the plunger retracts when powered but mine does the opposite. Anyway, the solenoid plunger moves when bench tested but when I install it and tighten the mounting flange nothing happens when I put power to it. However, if I loosen the two flange bolts to hand tight only, the solenoid clicks when power is applied! I know this sounds weird but that is what it is doing. Can anyone help me figure out the problem? Thanks
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By KULTULZ - 2 Months Ago
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See if this gives any help -
https://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/TechData/BWOverdriveManual.pdf
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By alanfreeman - 2 Months Ago
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I have that O.D. Manual but it doesn't specify exactly how the plunger works.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 2 Months Ago
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Your solenoid is correct, the plunger should extend when power is applied.
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By miker - 2 Months Ago
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Alan, are you getting the solenoid shaft properly engaged on the pawl? I know from experience that can be a problem.
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By alanfreeman - 2 Months Ago
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Yes, it seems like the only way to engage the pawl in the trans is to put current to it and extend the plunger while installing it so I know that is not the problem. It makes no sense that the solenoid will work with the flange loose but not when I tighten it. There are blue and orange wires coming out from the solenoid. The only wire which activates the solenoid is the blue wire. What is the orange wire for?
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By miker - 2 Months Ago
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That second wire goes to the kickdown switch, and has something to do with the grounding/ungrounding of the points I think. The manual K posted the link to shows the wiring, but not the contacts in the switch. I never really understood how it worked, it just did. Magic.
Last resort call Mac at Van Pelt Sales. They sell most of the replacement parts, and he’s very good with the overdrives. Maybe he’s seen it before.
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/
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By KULTULZ - 2 Months Ago
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... hhmpf ...
See if this helps - https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogspot.com/2015/10/borg-warner-r-10-r-11-tech-tips.html
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By alanfreeman - 2 Months Ago
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I am still having the same problem with my overdrive solenoid. It works when bench tested. However, when I install it and tighten it down it doesn't click when power is applied to the blue wire. I know that I installed it correctly in the trans pawl as before installing the mounting bolts I turned it to the correct position and I could feel the plunger engaged and I could not pull the solenoid straight out. However, if I back the two mounting bolts out and loosen the solenoid it then works when power is applied. This really makes no sense to me but I am at the point where it looks like I will just have to invest in a new solenoid. Any more suggestions?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Months Ago
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It might be that the pullin coil is not functioning but the holding coil is. When the solenoid is on the bench the holding coil is supplying enough force to extend the plunger. The pullin coil is grounded through a contact within the solenoid itself and that contact could be simply dirty or oily etc.. I assume this is a 6V coil. Normally, with a digital ohm meter there should be a very low reading through the blue wire. Something like .3 ohms. A 6V coil should be about 4 to 5 ohms through the holding coil. If you measure through the blue witre with one probe and the other probe on the solenoid frame and get aprox. 4 to 5 ohms , then that would prove the pullin coil in not functioning. Just one possibility since the O/D was working good, then failing intermittently until complete failure. If you should get into the solenoid and find the pullin coil is bad or the contact is toast, I would be glad to pass on a "parts" solenoid to you. Hope this helps and good luck....
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By DANIEL TINDER - 2 Months Ago
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alanfreeman (9/27/2024)
I am still having the same problem with my overdrive solenoid. It works when bench tested. However, when I install it and tighten it down it doesn't click when power is applied to the blue wire. I know that I installed it correctly in the trans pawl as before installing the mounting bolts I turned it to the correct position and I could feel the plunger engaged and I could not pull the solenoid straight out. However, if I back the two mounting bolts out and loosen the solenoid it then works when power is applied. This really makes no sense to me but I am at the point where it looks like I will just have to invest in a new solenoid. Any more suggestions?
Years ago, when I was testing NOS 6V solenoids, I built a jig to mount them (putting solid resistance against the plunger). Some would bench test fine, but not in the jig. I assumed that when they wouldn’t function properly after the dealer mechanic installed them, they went back on the supplier's shelf (instead of to the manufacturer), and eventually ended up on eBay. Was easier then to just try another, rather than disassemble & repair, though the supply is likely dried up by now.
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By alanfreeman - 2 Months Ago
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Thanks Dearborn and Daniel. What you are saying makes perfect sense. I think that I am just going to buy a new solenoid from VanPelt rather than continuing to fool around with this one. When the OD problem first started, (the second time) I removed the cover and found it full of trans oil. I cleaned it up and installed a new seal in the transmission and that fixed the leak but the solenoid never worked again when installed although it bench tested OK. Maybe the oil damaged one of the coils???? I will post again after I see if the new solenoid solves my problem.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Months Ago
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Allen I get it, you just want to put this problem to bed for good. However, if VanPelt doesn't have one, I wouldn't mind having a look at you old solenoid for the cost of shipping....
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By alanfreeman - 2 Months Ago
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PM sent. Thanks Ford Dearborn!!!
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By FORD DEARBORN - 2 Months Ago
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Allen, I replied to your PM.
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By alanfreeman - Last Month
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I now have a working OD solenoid that I removed from another one of my cars. All of the OD electricals check out as good. After struggling with this problem for weeks and reading a long series of posts on "Ford Barn", I am convinced that my problem is mechanical and not electrical and caused by misalignment of the blocker ring with the pawl. The blocker ring must have rotated out of alignment with the pawl when I had the solenoid removed in the past. This problem is described on page 10 of the Borg Warner manual. I tried the remedy for this condition with the solenoid loosened but it didn't work. I made a tool to grab the pawl and push it inward with the solenoid removed while rotating the driveshaft by hand but I only feel about 1/8" movement of the pawl and I don't feel it dropping into the blocker ring no matter how many times I turn the driveshaft. Can someone give me a detailed description of how to realign the blocker ring without pulling the transmission and taking it apart? Should I have the OD dash handle in or out? Should I have the car in a forward gear or in neutral? I assume that the rear wheels should be off of the ground. Thanks
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Month
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I believe the handle on the dash should be pushed in, that is, the OD not locked out. Otherwise, if locked out, the pawl is deliberately blocked outward by the shift rail and can't be pushed inward. So, with the OD enabled and the trans in neutral, pull the pawl out as far as it will go. Then, rotate the drive shaft in the normal direction to set the blocker ring in a normal position as if the car is traveling down the road. Now attempt to push the pawl inward and while holding this inward pressure on the pawl, rotate the drive shaft in the opposite direction and within a few degrees of rotation the pawl should slip off the balk ring and then engage the next slot in the balk ring gear. If this happens, the drive shaft should lock up. That is, you will not be able to rotate the drive shaft in reverse any further when the trans is in OD. I will question once again that when the OD is NOT locked out, the OD shift lever on the side of the trans should be moved back towards the rear of the vehicle. Also, it is correct that the pawl should travel about 1/2 inch from outboard to inboard and outboard again when engaging into the balk ring gear. I will add, by rotating the drive shaft in the reverse direction as stated above, simulates what the kick down switch does by momentarily grounding the ignition system to unload the drive train to allow the pawl to engage the balk ring gear. This is how I bench checked these transmissions after assembly. That's pretty cool the tool you fabricated to manipulate the pawl. Hope this helps....
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By FORD DEARBORN - Last Month
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Greetings to all - I need to correct an incorrect statement: "I will add, by rotating the drive shaft in the reverse direction as stated above, simulates what the kick down switch does by momentarily grounding the ignition system to unload the drive train to allow the pawl to engage the balk ring gear." I SHOULD have stated: I will add, by rotating the drive shaft in the reverse direction as stated above, simulates what happens when the accelerator pedal is released which will unload the drive train to allow the pawl to engage the balk ring gear. Please accept my apologies for any confusion. It's been many years since dealing with one of these transmission so I dug out an R10 OD trans and actually performed the bench test as stated above just to make sure the procedure is true and it is.
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