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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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Hi all, I am thinking about buying a 1954 F-100 and have a few questions for all of you.
The owner says there is a 272 in it. I looked at the y-block site for engine identification and am under the assumption that the 272 wasn’t available until 1955. Is that correct?
Recognizing the engine could have been swapped, what’s the likely place for a block casting number? I will have the owner check.
So if it’s a 239, how should I feel about it? I’m thinking parts availability is even more limited with the 239 versus the later y-8s, and I’m sure performance differs as well.
Also, the truck has a three speed with overdrive. I’m not familiar with the overdrive option - how it works, its dependability - so any thoughts on that would be appreciated.
The truck won’t be driven a lot but it would be nice to take it down the road occasionally without getting completely run over.
Here are a couple of engine pics if there is anything that tips you off on the engine in it.
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By paul2748 - 5 Months Ago
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From the picture a few things stand out. The first is the exhaust manifolds which are prized and a good omen. The second is the fuel pump. It looks like it has the 54 fuel pump, something that is not compatible with a 272/292 engine unless the 239 front cover was switched over to the later engine.
Engine numbers for a 239 block could begin with either and EBU or EBV. The EBU was the original 54, the EBV was a 55 style block which is compatible with most 55 and up parts. 272 engine starting letters were ECG for the most part through the years. The 54 engine was a one off in a lot of respects (cam, fuel pump, water pump) . Even if it's a 239, it will be able to keep you up the today's traffic if in good condition. Truck rear ends were usually a pretty low ratio (numerically high) and the top end speed may be a challenge.but with the O/D it should not be a problem. Block codes are usually on the side of the block but may be in the back near the distributor. The later 239's were only used in trucks in 55 and possibly 56.. Not that familiar with the truck engine availability in the early years
You are correct that the 272 was first introduced in 1955.
Regarding the overdrive, you can get info in the owners manual if it's still available. Repos of he manual may be available aftermarket. Tells how to use it.
Like anything new ,to you, get what manuals are available. Shop and electrical manuals especially. There might be a manual on the overdrive?
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By FORD DEARBORN - 5 Months Ago
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You may want to learn as much as possible about the steering system. There is what looks like a menagerie of multiple links and u-joints from the firewall to possibly a rack and pinion steering gear?
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By Deyomatic - 5 Months Ago
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Wouldn't it be a Borg Warner R10 or R11 overdrive? One of them is more stout than the other.
If it were me, and I was just looking for a cruiser to take out every so often... if the price was right, I don't think that I'd let a 239 be a deal breaker for me, but I'd definitely factor in a swap when I made an offer for the truck. As long as the body is in good shape, that would be the most important thing. Those are the nicest looking pickup truck ever made.
I would want something with more power, personally. I also would not be as picky as some as to what got swapped in to replace the 239, engine size, family or, dare I say, even brand (gulp).
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By KULTULZ - 5 Months Ago
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This may help -
The letters DIF cast near the distributor identify parts cast at the Dearborn Industrial Foundry. A three-digit casting number will be found nearby, typically EBU or ECG. As stated, EBU is a 239 while ECG indicates a 272. Cleveland Foundry parts have an F surrounded by a semicircle to identify their source.
SOURCE - http://yblockguy.com/identify_y-block.htm
There were two 239CI engines, DIF and CLV. The DIF seemed to go to the PASS CAR and CLV went to LT.
Progression was 239 to 256 To 272, all CLV engines. There was a lot of factory mix and match also and you will have no idea of what you have until it goes to forensics.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Months Ago
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MORE CLARIFICATION -
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1569743-256-with-272-heads.html
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By pintoplumber - 5 Months Ago
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The 239 is a good engine if that is what you have. If it came from the factory with overdrive, you probably have a 4.10 or 4.27 rear. I have a 239 in my truck. I added overdrive and a 4.27 rear when I rebuilt it. I don’t know what part of the country you live in, but here in PA with our twisty back roads I don’t get to use overdrive much. I love the 4.27 rear running around town though. My engine has been hopped up a little.
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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Thanks everyone for the comments and the keen eyes. The owner says the steering is a “brand new power steering rack with a Ford electric power steering pump”. Dennis, what did you do to enhance performance on your 239? Would a Mummert intake fit? The owner and I are both traveling until the 4th, so I’m hoping we can get together after then. I’m in Minnesota by the way. I spent the day at back to the 50’s and saw plenty of F-100s. None had a y-block!
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By pintoplumber - 5 Months Ago
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1st we bored it out to take 256 pistons. Used an Isky E 4 cam. Edelbrock FM354 intake. Then the block was modified to take G heads. Then a 312 crank was turned down to fit the block. Got 272 standard bore pistons and 312 rods. Been running that combination since 2013.
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By Lou - 5 Months Ago
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There is a good 239 and a bad 239, the good 239 had a 13 tooth distributor, the bad one had 12 tooth gear, I know because I owned a bad one.
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By Ted - 5 Months Ago
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It would help to know the casting numbers on your heads. Depending upon the year model, the cyl head casting numbers will be above the exhaust ports, under the water ports at the end of the heads, or in the valve spring area under the rocker arms. The earlier 1954 239/256 heads had the smaller intake ports and there are some issues in putting the later model or aftermarket intake manifolds with the larger ports on those earlier heads. If a 272 was installed in place of the 239, then there’s a good chance the later model heads also were installed. The cylinder head casting numbers would help to confirm this.
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By pintoplumber - 5 Months Ago
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Lou (6/24/2024)
There is a good 239 and a bad 239, the good 239 had a 13 tooth distributor, the bad one had 12 tooth gear, I know because I owned a bad one.
Actually the 1954 239 had a 13 tooth distributor, the 1955 239 had the 14 tooth distributor.
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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Thanks again everyone. I will try to get some casting numbers before I see the truck. So is there a quality difference between the ‘54 and ‘55 distributors, i.e., one more preferable than the other? I suppose there is no way to externally identify which is which?
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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And to confirm my understanding of the castings, if we find EBD near the distributor, it’s a 239; ECG would be 272. If it’s a 239, it would be worth looking for the castings on the heads (recognizing the earlier heads could have been used on the 272,
So may want to check that too).
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By pintoplumber - 5 Months Ago
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Ideally you would want a 1957 and up style distributor that has centrifugal and vacuum advance. Those have a 14 tooth gear at the bottom. The 1955 distributor is vacuum advance only but has a 14 tooth gear allowing the upgrade to a better distributor.
The 1954 239 with the 13 tooth gear requires changing the gear on the 1957 and up style distributor to 13 teeth, changing the oil pump and the oil pump drive. Where as upgrading the 1955 239 distributor to a 1957 and up style is just a drop in.
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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Thanks, Dennis. Can you go the other way - on a 239 with a 13 tooth distributor - can you change whatever needs to be changed so that it accepts a 14 tooth distributor?
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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We keep coming back to Kultulz’s comment on forensics! I hope it’s really a 272…
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By KULTULZ - 5 Months Ago
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The owner says the steering is a “brand new power steering rack with a Ford electric power steering pump”.
This causes me wonder ...
An actual electric rack (FORD EPAS anyways) has the electric motor attached to a mechanical rack. Some system(s) have the motor attached to the steering shaft usually before the shaft exits the toe-board. If you do get to inspect the truck, try and determine what system he has used.
I would greatly appreciate it.
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By pintoplumber - 5 Months Ago
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MplsMike (6/25/2024)
Thanks, Dennis. Can you go the other way - on a 239 with a 13 tooth distributor - can you change whatever needs to be changed so that it accepts a 14 tooth distributor?
Yes, I had to do that with mine. With 3 carburetors, I had to go with the 1957 and up style distributor. I put the 13 tooth gear on the distributor and had to change the oil pump drive, and oil pump.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Months Ago
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NOTICE KEY WORDS - In this case pump ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nb1CAaFI50
Who would have ever thought? Damn I am getting old.
It has one heck of an AMP draw. Hope the ALT & BAT are up to the challenge.
So it has an hydraulic steering rack.
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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So here is a picture near the distributor…does this narrow the blocks it could be?
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By KULTULZ - 5 Months Ago
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It is a CLEVELAND FOUNDRY ENGINE. The CASTING ID should be on the engine skirt @ the oil filter mounting pad.
http://www.ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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Thanks, Kultulz, does this mean the engine is something other than a 239?
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By KULTULZ - 5 Months Ago
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... does this mean the engine is something other than a 239?
Not necessarily. The CLEVELAND CASTING MARK only identifies the engine as being cast/machined at the CLEVELAND IRON FOUNDRY. You need the cylinder block CASTING ID NO. and CASTING DATE CODE to actually ID just the block. The engine may also have been modified internally and cylinder heads swapped.
There were two versions of the 239CI, DEARBORN and CLEVELAND. You have the better series (IMO)
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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I’m a little slow on the uptake - would the EBD casting be in the general vicinity of the picture the buyer took near the distributor if it’s a 239?
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By paul2748 - 5 Months Ago
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If the number on the block is EDB-6015 then it's a 292 from a 55-59 car or truck
Is it EDB or EBD because I find no EBD listing for a block
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By MplsMike - 5 Months Ago
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Sorry Paul, I meant EBU casting in my last post.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Months Ago
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... would the EBD (EBU) casting be in the general vicinity of the picture the buyer took near the distributor if it’s a 239?
Yes. The CASTING would read DIF and EBU. DIF indicates DEARBORN IRON FACTORY. This would be the big cam version of the 239.
CLV would indicate the small cam version, The engine markings you show indicate a CLEVELAND.
If a CLEVELAND, the ID NOS. should be on the left side block skirt just above the oil filter pad (early CLV CASTING ID could also be at the DIST).
 I am not a very good explainer. If anything else, just ask.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Months Ago
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Let me try this again ...
I’m a little slow on the uptake - would the EBD casting be in the general vicinity of the picture the buyer took near the distributor if it’s a 239?
No, my reading level is 3rd GRADE (my final year),
You have a CLV block, which is good (IMO). The CASTING ID location is described above.
If you are asking where the CASTING ID is on a DIF BLOCK, it can either be @ the DIST or at the GEN on the block skirt or both. Depends on model year released.
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By 58F600 - 5 Months Ago
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You would have to change the cam. Easiest thing is to put the 13 tooth distributor gear on the 57 distributor and change the oil pump abd oil pump drive to hex.
13 tooth dist, 54 only cam, slot drive oil pump
14 tooth dist, all other FYB cams, 1/4" hex drive oil pump.
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By paul2748 - 5 Months Ago
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If you have the EBU block, that is the big cam journal 1954 version of the 239. Not the best because cams are hard to find and there are problems with using a later intake..
The EBV is the later version that has the cam journals the same as the later Y blocks (272,292, etc). Basically, they were 55 truck blocks based on John Mummerts data. The EBV may have been available in late 54, but John's info does not show that..
Don't get confused with Cleveland vs Detroit blocks.. While relevant, The casting letters with the 6015 after them (EBU, EBV) are going to tell you what year/size the block is. There are exceptions to this rule regarding 292/312 blocks in the later years as the 312 blocks had the same letters as a 292..
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