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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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My 56 Thunderbird is a 312 with a manual transmission and overdrive. The engine is stock. It was rebuilt and I assume it was bored some amount (TBD). I plan to update the top of the engine to 57 specs with ECZ-G or 113 heads. I'm also in the queue for a pair of Mummert aluminum heads. I have a current version of the Blue Thunder intake manifold with the machining for a larger distributor. My goal is to build a street 312 with a 57+ camshaft that looks stock to the untrained eye. I would paint the BT intake and Mummert heads red to match the engine. John Mummert suggests using 59 and later distributors vs a 57. Ideally, I would like to use a stock looking distributor that has a mechanical tach drive that connects to the Tbird tach. But I'm open to anything. Thoughts appreciated!
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By 55blacktie - 9 Months Ago
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When I inherited my 55 Tbird, I discovered that the OEM 55 Teapot carburetor and 57 tach-drive distributor were not compatible. Gil Baumgartner (CTCI Gil's Garage) recommended that I keep the 57 distributor and replace the carburetor; that was before I learned that the Teapot carburetors can be modified to work with the 57-up distributors.
After reading about Ted Eaton's having tested the CRT electronic distributor with favorable results, I asked him whether he would choose the 57 distributor or the CRT. He chose the CRT. The CRT Thunderbird distributor has a mechanical tach drive. It also will accommodate an electric tach as well. The CRT distributor is $240, and shipping is free. Unless you live in MA, there will be no sales tax (unless you buy off eBay).
An expert will know that your heads, intake, carburetor, and distributor are not correct for your 56 Tbird; they won't be fooled by painting the heads and intake. Non-experts won't know the difference.
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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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Thanks for the feedback. I should have been more clear. The goal is not to look like a stock 56 but rather to look like a 56 with 57 upgrades and options that were available "in the period". I have this pipe dream to get an early Bird registered for the 1000 Miglia rally in Italy and participate someday. Thunderbirds from 1955 through 1957 qualify. So step one is complete, I have a 56 Thunderbird. Step two is to get it Registered (inspected) and pre-qualified for a future entry application. Step three is to get lucky and be one the 400 or so cars selected and have the $$$ to do it. A man and woman team finished the 1957 race as car # 434 in a 55 Tbird. I think it would be a lot of fun to mix it up with cars that are one or two orders of magnitude more valuable than your own!
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By Joe-JDC - 9 Months Ago
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If you put a Black cap on the CRT, it will look like new stock. I have all three derivatives of the Thunderbird electronic distributors, the MSD, the CRT, and the TSP. So far, they have worked just fine.
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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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Thanks Joe! A yellow 55 participated in the 1000 Miglia rally in 2013. And other early Birds have more recently. The yellow 55 later sold on Bringatrailer for under $25K. The photo below is from that listing. Suffice to say I think it is by far the least valuable car visible in the photo. I can't imagine what the factory sponsored Mercedes 300 SL race car might be worth.
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By 55blacktie - 9 Months Ago
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I'm assuming you have managed to overcome the biggest obstacle (money), if you can afford the aluminum heads and shipping your car to Italy.
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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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Not really, but one can always hope. However, I do have Irish citizenship by descent since my grandparents were born in Ireland. So I have an Irish / EU passport which allows us to live anywhere in the EU legally. We've thought about trying to live over there before we get too old and decrepit. If so, maybe the Thunderbird comes with us.
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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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I just read Ted's article on " Modifying the Holley Teapot four barrel carb for late model distributors". I thought I had read almost every one of his articles but not this one. So now I'm wondering how a modified Teapot carb on top of the standard 56 intake would work with the CRT distributor? Or the Teapot on top of the Blue Thunder? Not sure I've seen that set up. The Teapot is freshly rebuilt by The Carburetor Center in El Monte, CA. And Ted's level of expertise never ceases to amaze me. If I was younger I would offer to apprentice in his shop for free just to soak up all his knowledge.
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By paul2748 - 9 Months Ago
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You do know that the teapot will not fit the blue thunder manifold (or Mummert's) w/o an adapter
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By 55blacktie - 9 Months Ago
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If you're thinking about using a Teapot carburetor with Mummert heads, how about two Teapots? B6A-9000-B/B6A-9600-B dual 4-barrel kits were offered over the counter by most Ford dealerships (not factory installed) for the 1956 Thunderbird. Whether using one or two, you shouldn't have a problem with an electronic distributor, as long as the carburetor(s) have been modified for the 57-up distributors. 1957 312 E-codes were factory-equipped with two Teapots. Personally, I would stick with a 57-up single 4-barrel carburetor, up to 600 cfm, with vacuum secondaries.
You must be contemplating a complete engine rebuild; for what you're considering, you would not want to use the stock 56 camshaft, particularly with the aluminum heads. The stock cam will prevent the heads from reaching their full potential.
Before you start parting with hard-earned dollars, you need to give this serious consideration. With the help of the members of this forum, hopefully you will get it right the first time. I've spent many hours trying to get it right, and I still bought parts that can't/won't be used for the final build.
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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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I get it. I've been down the rabbit holes at Mummert / Eaton, etc., for about a decade now. I would likely sell the Teapot and go with a 4bbl and a 57 street cam. I had a 57 Ranchero that I intended to build but I sold it, unfortunately, since my spouse didn't like it. But she's on board with a Thunderbird. And I kept the wheels and tires from the Ranchero. Buyer didn't want them. But they will fit the Thunderbird just fine!
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By 55blacktie - 9 Months Ago
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Assuming you have the original axle ratio, I would ask John Mummert what he thinks about using his 280-11 cam, if you will use his aluminum heads. I'm sure Ted could recommend something as well. If you haven't already done so, read Ted Eaton's "Unported Iron Heads Can Still Make Over A HP To The Cubic Inch." The Isky cam selected for that build was larger than what you're considering, even though Karol Miller's Victoria had 3.22 rear gears/w overdrive transmission.
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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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I'm not sure what the rear end ratio is in the 56 Tbird yet. It was originally delivered as a 292 three speed manual so it should have a 3:73. The prior owner later pulled that and put in a rebuilt 312 with overdrive. And yes, I did read the article about 1 hp per cubic inch in a 292 at Ted's site. I like his approach, he does no more than necessary but does it the right way. The Karol Miller build was very interesting. This was my adventure today, pulling a 272 Marine Y-block from a derelict 1960s Higgins speedboat. It has ECZ-G heads and Glenwood aluminum marine exhaust manifolds. Engine is normal rotation, not seized and maybe low hours being a boat. Total cost $125 but I burned about 12 hours of my time. It will be interesting to tear into it.
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By slumlord444 - 9 Months Ago
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Will a stock Ford distributor cap fit on a CRT distributor?
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By Ted - 9 Months Ago
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Blind Willie (2/20/2024)
... John Mummert suggests using 59 and later distributors vs a 57. Ideally, I would like to use a stock looking distributor that has a mechanical tach drive that connects to the T-Bird tach. But I'm open to anything. Thoughts appreciated!
The CRT/TSP electronic distributors with the tach drive are an option if determined to go with a mechanical tach. Those are reasonably priced and I will use them even on non-mechanical tach applications. Those distributors are available in both the HEI terminal and push-in-wire caps depending upon your preference.
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By Ted - 9 Months Ago
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slumlord444 (2/21/2024)
Will a stock Ford distributor cap fit on a CRT distributor?
No. But both the HEI and push-in wire distributor caps are available for the CRT/TSP distributors.
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By Ted - 9 Months Ago
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Here are a couple of pictures of a CRT/TSP distributor in a Y. Keep in mind that the tach drive distributor is taller overall than the non-tach drive distributor. The distributor caps are available in black, red, or blue.
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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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My 56 T-Bird arrived and I finally had a chance to give it a good look over. Prior owner had changed the original 292 to a rebuilt 312 (225 HP) engine from a donor car. CR is 9.0 to 1. Heads are ECZ-G which was a pleasant surprise. I assume the cam is 57 spec but have no way to confirm. The intake, carb and distributor, however, are all 56 spec (teapot, etc). Transmission is the T85 Heavy Duty unit with OD. Rear end ratio is 3.92 per tag (47/12). I’m thinking this will be a real strong performer with my Blue Thunder intake, CRT/TSP tach drive distributor and the right 4 bbl carburetor. I have a stock 57 Holley (1273 list) but I’m wondering if that will be enough with the Blue Thunder intake and new distributor. Thoughts? 
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By 55blacktie - 9 Months Ago
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If the camshaft in your engine is the OEM 56, or even 57 cam, the 57 carburetor will suffice. The cam will limit the upper rpm range, so a larger carburetor will not be necessary. Even if you were to modify the Teapot to be compatible with the 57-up distributor, the 57 4150 carburetor provides a bit more cfm and would be preferable. However, I don't think the 55/56 air cleaner for the Teapot will fit the 57 carburetor.
The Blue Thunder intake manifold is expensive. If you have the stock cam and either the Teapot or 57 carburetor, I don't think there is much to be gained by using the Blue Thunder; the 57 ECZ-B intake would be considerably cheaper and work just fine with your combination.
Even with the 69cc ECZ-G heads, your static compression could be less than 9:1, particularly so if neither the block nor heads have been cut, you have composite head gaskets, and aftermarket cast pistons that could be as much as .035 below the deck at TDC.
If the engine runs fine, as is, I would do nothing more than go with the electronic distributor, 57 ECZ-B intake and carburetor, and possibly the 57 exhaust manifolds.
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By 55blacktie - 9 Months Ago
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You might verify whether you have the 56 1.43 ratio rocker arms or the 57 1.54 ratio, the latter should be preferable, even with the 56 camshaft.
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By Blind Willie - 9 Months Ago
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Thanks for the suggestions! I thought the 57 Holley carb might be sufficient. A lot of people seem to over carb the stock engines. I will most likely go with the Holley 4150, the B style intake and 57 air cleaner and see how that all works out. The current 56 air cleaner is still the oil bath style which really surprised me.
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By 55blacktie - 9 Months Ago
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If needed, you might want to contact Sal Cicala about rebuilding the 57 carburetor.
Sal Cicala
sal cicala@yahoo.com
(586) 612-1650
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