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By Fishguy - 2 Years Ago
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I am just now able to post on this forum. However, I was able to outline my problem with Mr. Eaton My original message and his response is hereby posted. Thoughts?
Me - We have a 1954 Ford 4-door wagon. It has the 239 Y-Block, 3 speed manual, 6 volt +grnd, etc. It ran (until recently) and is in overall very good condition. A lot of body restoration has been done and the car is very road worthy.
The V8 is worn out. 30 to 40 psi compression and no pressure build-up during a leak down test. Gas in the oil. And, air can be heard leaking by listening at the oil filler during the leak down test. However, the engine and its compartment are complete and clean.
This car is too good to throw away. What do you think? If we decide to "fix" it, how common are 239 parts (a "one year" motor - ouch!)? If it is "over bored" already, is sleaving a good idea?
Should we consider an engine swap? What would work best? Coincidentally, we have a good scruby V6 with a 3 speed manual from a 1981 El Camino. It looks like an easy swap.
Mr. Eaton's response - Many of the 1954 model Y-Block specific engine parts such as the oil pump, distributor drive, distributor, camshaft, camshaft bearings, water pump, and fuel pump are getting difficult to find. While I do have some work arounds for the camshaft, cam bearings, and other parts so that the original 239 can be retained, it's more cost effective to just put the later model Y in your car. The easiest swap would be to simply install a 1955 and newer 272 or 292 in place of the 239. The 292 engines were installed in vehicles through 1964 and Ford continued to build those engines for industrial and marine applications through the end of 1967 so they are still out there to be found. Bellhousings and flywheels are interchangeable between the 1954 and newer models so the swap is relatively straight forward. If so desired, the engine can be dressed out to look like the original 239 but with the improvements with the later model carburetors and intake manifolds, I would opt for going late model ('57 and newer) with the induction system.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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It all comes down to what you want to do with the car. If you want it to be 100% original, and intend to seldom drive it, stick with the 239. Under those circumstances, you should be in no hurry, in which case you'll have time to search for the parts that are unique to your car. On the other hand, if you want it to be a driver, I would heed Ted's advice. There aren't many people who could look under the hood and spot the difference, and most of them wouldn't care if it's a 239 or 292. People unfamiliar with Y-blocks might even mistake it for a SBC.
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By darrell - 2 Years Ago
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i would take the 239 out put it in a dry place and if you ever want to go back its there.go with a 292 312 whatever you find.
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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Personally I would find a 292, since they are the most prevalent, someone is removing for an upgrade for a newer engine. You see them quite often complete with all manifolds, generator and starter. Start with local Craigs Lists or facebook market place. Even freshening one is fairly inexpensive if you’re mechanical with the proper books. Good luck.
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By paul2748 - 2 Years Ago
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I pretty much agree with the others if you are not going for authenticity. Don't limit yourself to a 57 or later engine, the 55's and 56';s are just as good and everything will interchange with the 57 and later engines. Most all of the outside parts (excluding distributor, oil pump and fuel pump) can be used from your 54 if you so wish.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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I'll echo everyone else. 292 would be the easiest. The fact that you're even considering putting a 239 back (or a GM V6) tells me that you're not interested in making cheap horsepower. Shouldn't be too hard to find a 292. Good luck...and welcome.
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By Daniel Jessup - 2 Years Ago
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Ditto on the 292 and welcome to the site. A couple of good books to grab (eBay links the easiest to find but these books are readily available elsewhere)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175305800899?epid=14026486604&hash=item28d10a3cc3:g:TgoAAOSw59ximWCb&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4HbYLKzUbSxV6qM1CQ2vTruEUUBbnT4Akn2y57wq5HeQcw27vQvJJoKobALla12jFEJQy6ZgdMtc70h6GCqxLAil4cE5Csvd9Kt1%2FLdxiPfkxa5mI8obYRIIb8PJRRUhksR1bvCwYWfZsgPqbE%2B%2FFIFtEOHFmAyzTJ39X5kBLSsST%2B%2BdEMq7fzPLLosu6dKMFHwdJctk3Ac%2F5EwKcxxp4RBAXr1V8nf8KCMU4FKZlYQmlAV%2FBDSxrhY58Ldatqcab1HsXq%2B6VYFw6aIuHlxoUWw5GT01ggzVrDqbgOfw6ElY%7Ctkp%3ABFBMztGXyuNi
and
https://www.ebay.com/itm/335060019410?epid=17038737732&hash=item4e032228d2:g:zxYAAOSw1~5f~nzT&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8KTCh09HBzJnN8rtk%2BEN%2BfNp2nkMtHBwumPJG8FfDXEK%2B7NL1uzgBCn1pwKepr69589XRHmqbktWEFxOh%2Bd1aKybJmH7w%2F0%2BKoEgwSfON0ua1GrQysdg776sA%2BFRxLq4yAxKyGs1%2BgMYTR0%2BuGd8NTAW69QtpBgSxlD5cNWA6og325zxJaJkTRfaM8Q41rv%2BNWEVKi8O6vbZhsjpuQlFh2REVqeQzoAZBNRKygkfjm%2FopbZUbOL6z%2BU%2Ff2Dh1dvstoP4HP610VUkjsNgG%2B58XauY18aBUpJGoWQjwM4Y574Eb5uJLq7YZwmk%2Bz6UR%2Fy1nQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9DRl8rjYg
If you have not been to Ted's personal site yet, there are quite a few helpful articles. eatonbalancing.com
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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Welcome to the site. It would be helpful if you put your location in. Might be someone close with an engine. Just this morning someone came up at the Ford Barn looking to sell a 292 he had surplus. He’s in Alabama. I’ve got 3 in storage that I don’t need at my age. Seattle WA area.
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By Fishguy - 2 Years Ago
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I am in Missoula, Montana. I am not too worried about originally. This car is owned by a client and we are just trying to find out the best way to get it back on the road.
I agree a 292 is the best solution, however, we should probably convert to 12v neg grnd in the process. The owner is NOT mechanically inclined and I think leaving the 6 volt system with the larger engine will cause future problems. He already thinks this is going to be a daily driver.
Right now he is dazed and confused by the potential cost. He thinks a 70 year old car is no different than his 2005 pickup truck.
Thank you for your thoughts. We may in touch for one of those "Ys". I haven't been to Seattle for a couple years.
Steve
1929 Model A Roadster. 1957 Ford 2-dr HT 312 Y Block (back in my high school days)
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By miker - 2 Years Ago
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I sent you a pm.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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Finding a block, crankshaft, etc. that are good candidates for a rebuild might be easier said than done. For instance, upon discovering that my ECZ-B 292 block is already +.060, I started looking for a replacement. I found a C2AE 292 block on CL for $250. The seller said it was +.030. Later, he said the bores varied from standard 3.750 to 3.800. He wanted $250 for the bare block. I found other blocks through a club member. He sent photos of a pile of blocks that had only wedges of wood separating them. He said one of them was + .030. He wanted $500 for a bare block. He did, however, say that I could have my pick and exchange it if it didn't check out okay. I passed on both.
I wouldn't buy a complete engine, particularly one that the seller claimed to have been recently rebuilt, unless I could hear it run, preferably in a vehicle that could be driven; good luck finding it. Although it might cost more initially, your best bet is to contact Tim McMaster, Ted Eaton, or John Mummert. If anyone has a good candidate for a rebuild, they would.
Although more 292s were made than any other Y-block, most were sold for scrap over the years or left outdoors, unprotected from the elements. Most people don't even know what a Y-block is and have no interest in them. Unfortunately, machine shops are often among them.
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By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
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A 292 that is +.060" is not necessarily junk. I have three that are over that size and one makes 402hp, the 303 EMC Y made 462hp and the other one makes 613hp. With today's custom pistons available, you can order just about any size you want if you check ring availability for that size. One of my engines is 3.812", one 3.830, 3,862, and I have a 312 in the works at 3.850". Just saying. Joe-JDC
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping that my block will sonic check okay for an additional .010-.015, and that will be enough to clean up the bores for either 3.820/3.825 pistons & rings. 3.820 is common, but I know of only one manufacturer of 3.825 pistons and one manufacturer of 3.825 rings.
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By Deyomatic - 2 Years Ago
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Well...a client that seems not to be a car guy but also has sticker shock.
Now I change my original answer... Find a dirt cheap 302 or even a (GULP) 350 and call it a day and there will at least be some hot rodders that will want it when/if he or his family get around to selling it.
I agree on making it 12V negative ground...my old neighbor was in his 70s and was proud that he was the original owner of his 1966 MGBGT. He was also not mechanically inclined- at his own admission. I remember he had the car flatbedded to a shop one day and I asked the issue. He said it wouldn't start and that he replaced the battery so I asked if he was sure he got the cables correct and he said that he was. The shop had it for a week and then told him that they didn't really do British cars or old cars...then they towed it home. It took me 3 seconds to realize that he had the cables backwards. Unreal.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
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There are some owners who absolutely will not convert to 12v; I'm not one of them. My dad complained that his 55 Tbird was hard to start, particularly when the engine was still warm. He was willing to allow me to convert it to 12v. After the conversion, he said it had never started so easily. Unfortunately, he only got to drive the car a couple of more times before being diagnosed with dementia/Alzheimer's.
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By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
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Not that it applies to the original thread but a 292 bored .050” is a stock 312 size and fits the 292 rod/stroke perfectly. I had a problem on one cylinder and power honed the bore of my .040” 292 to fit a standard bore piston that was 1.5 grams lighter. The honing is only taking .005” of cast iron all the way around and I have a dial bore gauge and kept it perfectly sized thru the bore. I also found a guy who had 3 ring sets for a std-bore 312 and he gave them to me. That’s another option for a 292 needing a boring.
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By Dad's Bird - 2 Years Ago
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Fishguy,
I have a complete 1954 EBY Mercury 256 4bbl that I bought for some parts but now I'm doing something else. I'm willing to sell it before people start calling me a hoarder!.
Its clean but I have not torn it down so I don't know if its standard bore or not. If you or anyone else is interested I would help you/them inspect it and if it looks good run it.
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By Fishguy - 2 Years Ago
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Wow! Thanks. I guess it depends where you are. I am in Missoula Montana.
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By Dad's Bird - 2 Years Ago
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I'm located in Battle Ground, WA. but if you and your customer are interested I can get it down, take photos, and go from there. Send me a PM if you want to talk about it.
Thanks.
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