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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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Someone just informed me that the 55/56 temperature sending unit is larger than the 57. The 55/56 is 3/8 NPT. I want to retain the 55 gauge and sending unit, but I will be using 57 "G" heads. It was suggested that the 57 sending unit bushing be drilled and tapped for the 55 sending unit. However, Concours sells the 3/8 NPT bushing. Is the OD of the 55/56 bushing the same as the 57? I would just as soon remove the 57 bushing and install the 55/56.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - Last Year
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Yes, they are the same O.D.
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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Thanks, John. If the 55/56 sender is 3/8 NPT, is the 57 sender 1/4 NPT? If that's the case, it would be easier (and cheaper) to use a 1/4 to 3/8 NPT adapter.
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By miker - Last Year
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IIRC, the business end of the early temp sender is bigger than the later sender opening. You seem to be very care and precise in your work. Pull the bushing using the tool Concourse sells, clean out any corrosion, and install the larger one. It’ll look better, probably read better, and you’ll be happier in the long run.
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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Thanks, Miker. I found the bushing puller on several sites. Is there any trick to installing the bushing? What sealer is recommended?
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By paul2748 - Last Year
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Just make sure the bung/bushing is going in straight. I used a little RTV when I did mine, but something like Permatex Aviation should work good.
55blacktie (2/17/2023)
Thanks, Miker. I found the bushing puller on several sites. Is there any trick to installing the bushing? What sealer is recommended?
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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Is the bushing pressed in/tapped in? I have concerns about the possibility of damaging/cracking the head around the area of the bushing during removal/installation. Also, as I mentioned to Ted, I know that the original temperature gauge is not very accurate. Considering that AutoMeter includes adapters with their gauge, how detrimental will using an adapter be? By the way, I will be using AutoMeter gauges in addition to the original 55 gauges. The AutoMeter temp sending unit is installed in an upper radiator hose adapter, near the thermostat housing, where Ted says I'll get a better reading than from the location at the back of the head.
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By charliemccraney - Last Year
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The bushing is pressed into the head
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By miker - Last Year
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IIRC, because it’s been years, I screwed a brass nipple into the bushing and used it as a handle to line things up and then carefully tapped it in. I probably finished with a steel nipple. I don’t remember it being a problem, and I know I didn’t use a press.
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By paul2748 - Last Year
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I did not us a press either. Just tapped in it.. The head was still on the engine, which was in the car.
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By Ted - Last Year
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While I prefer that the temperature sending unit is at the front of the engine, it does still need to be behind the thermostat. Installing the temperature sending unit in the upper radiator hose will have the temperature gauge reading at a much lower than actual temperature until the thermostat actually opens. In the case of where the temperature probe or sending unit is installed in the hose and if the thermostat were to fail, the engine would be overheating long before the temperature gauge would indicate that.
Not sure why you are wanting to put the 6V temperature sending unit back in place when you could just use the ’57 and up ¼” NPT unit in the existing ¼” NPT bung. Need more info on that.
The temperature bungs in the heads are a press fit into the heads. Switching out the cylinder head bungs from ¼” to 3/8” or vice-versa has not been a big deal. Once the old bung has been removed and the existing hole has been both cleaned and checked for pitting, the hole and bung are coated with Permatex #2 or other suitable sealer. The new bung is then tapped into place. You do want to make sure that the bung is installed with the wide portion of the threads facing the outside of the engine.
While a reducing bushing works great for using a ¼” sending unit in a 3/8” NPT threaded hole, going the other direction can be problematic in getting the larger diameter probe of the early model 3/8” sending unit to fit in the ¼” male to 3/8” female brass adapter. As has been brought up, if actually using that 'raised' probe for a temperature reading there is going to be some inaccuracy in the gauge due to the temp probe not being directly immersed in the coolant flow.
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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Thanks, Ted.
Everything I've read states that you can't mix a 6v gauge with a 12v sender. If I install a 57 sender in the G head, I will also have to replace the gauge. I've already stated that the OEM gauge isn't particularly accurate, but I don't know if the reproduction gauge (probably made off-shore) is better/worse.
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By Ted - Last Year
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55blacktie (2/18/2023)
Everything I've read states that you can't mix a 6v gauge with a 12v sender. If I install a 57 sender in the G head, I will also have to replace the gauge. I've already stated that the OEM gauge isn't particularly accurate, but I don't know if the reproduction gauge (probably made off-shore) is better/worse.
It’s really more of a question of the ohms and not the voltage. Just pick out a ¼” NPT temp sensor with approximately the same ohms and the voltage will not be a major deal if intent on using something comparable to the original sensor.
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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By the way, Miker, when I saw IIRC, I thought you were addressing somebody else by mistake. I later searched "IIRC." At 68 years of age, I'm very much a 20th-Century man (If I Recall Correctly).
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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I went ahead and bought an adapter. What I hadn't realized is that the probe of the 55 3/8 NPT sender is the same diameter as the 1/4 NPT male end of the adapter. In other words, the 55 sender is too big. When I take the engine to Tim McMaster to be rebuilt, I will let him choose whether to tap the G head bushing for 3/8 NPT or replace the 1/4 NPT bushing with 3/8 NPT to accommodate the 55 sender. Fortunately, I was out just $6.00 for the adapter; it won't break the bank, but buying parts & tools that can't/won't be used adds up.
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By miker - Last Year
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Well I’m 73. I should probably be using “Iirc”, since that first “I” for “if” is the important part. LOL
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By napaunderground - Last Year
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I found that Dennis Carpenter parts has the bung for the later style, I ordered one instead of continuing on my endeavour of removing the one out of my stock heads. FWIW.
https://www.dennis-carpenter.com/trucks/cooling-system/temperature-senders/b7a-10911-a-adaptor-temp-sender-p65
I also got a rebuild kit for my truck water pump supposedly. We'll see when it comes in what I really bought.
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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Has anyone tried using a c-clamp to press the bung into the head? Now that the rust corrosion has been removed, maybe it will be easy to tap the replacement bung into place, but I'm thinking that pressing the bung into place might be safer.
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By paul2748 - Last Year
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I had no problems tapping the bung into the head. As I mentioned, the engine was in the car when I did it. Don't bang on the bung, get a piece of pipe or solid bar around the diameter of the bung and tap on that. That is what I did. Used a very thin coat of RTV when I did it. Just make sure it starts going in straight.
If you can get the correct angle on a press, it should be just as good.
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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I'll try using a socket to tap the bung into place. Thanks.
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By miker - Last Year
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I don’t remember it being a problem, but I might have put the bung in the freezer overnight. Or put the head on the bbq until it was medium rare. Heat and cold is what I always used on the brand x drive on balancers.
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By 55blacktie - Last Year
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I'll skip the bbq. I'm also wondering if it's a good idea to tap the bung after it's been in the freezer; might it chip/shatter?
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By Skyliner57 - 3 Months Ago
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I also plan to add a temp gauge, I will leave the old gauge in place. I am aware of the adapter in the radiator hose, I have not located one yet so any help would be appreciated.
Now, looking for an opinion. If I removed the fitting from the heater that goes into the intake manifold and replaced this with a "T". I would mount the "T" in a vertical position. In the branch I would put a ferrule fitting for the heater hose. In the top of the "t" which is pointing up I would install the temp probe bulb. Then on opposite end of the "T" a nipple that would screw into the manifold All comments would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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By 55blacktie - 3 Months Ago
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It shouldn't take more than 30 seconds to find the hose adapter on Amazon's website. Make sure that you know the correct size you need before ordering.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Months Ago
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"I also plan to add a temp gauge, I will leave the old gauge in place. I am aware of the adapter in the radiator hose, I have not located one yet so any help would be appreciated.
Now, looking for an opinion. If I removed the fitting from the heater that goes into the intake manifold and replaced this with a "T". I would mount the "T" in a vertical position. In the branch I would put a ferrule fitting for the heater hose. In the top of the "t" which is pointing up I would install the temp probe bulb. Then on opposite end of the "T" a nipple that would screw into the manifold All comments would be appreciated."
You have a '57 FYB? Is the new gauge aftermarket (accessory)? You are wanting to use a tee for both heater outlet and accessory temp sensor? The sensor bulb has to be fully submerged in the coolant or it will not read correctly. What you want to do with a tee will have the bulb out of the coolant as there will be air bubbles in the cooling system even if fitted with a coolant recovery system.
You are wanting to add a 2nd sensor for a mechanical gauge?
You want the sensor directly behind the thermostat for a correct reading. The sensor in the cyl head does not give a true reading at the thermostat. The best thing to do if not concerned with correct appearance is to drill and tap a new hole for the sensor at and behind the thermostat (be sure new location does not interfere with thermostat operation, especially a wide-mouth). If the sensor is placed after the thermostat (say in top hose), it will not get a correct signal.
EDIT -
Here is a photo of an ECZ-9425-A INTAKE having the coolant temp sensor hole drilled and tapped on the coolant crossover behind the thermostat. I think TED EATON either posted this or had a TECH ARTICLE on it -
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By Skyliner57 - 3 Months Ago
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Not sure if I responded to you. This does seem like the best solution. I will have the intake manifold off soon to replace the valley pan with a vent in the back for the PCV.
What do I need to send you to help me orient that TB aircleaner?
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By KULTULZ - 3 Months Ago
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"What do I need to send you to help me orient that TB aircleaner?"
My reply is on the ACL thread.
EDIT -
Here's the info -
GO HERE - https://forums.aaca.org/topic/...
And see if it helps with the orientation. If not get back.
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By darrell - 3 Months Ago
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the head is solid at that spot.you can drive it in
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By cos - 3 Months Ago
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Hello Members Also thinking of this. Not hottest part of engine but would the pass side head rear bung port work?
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By Joe-JDC - 3 Months Ago
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No, the distributor is there. Joe-JDC
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By cos - 3 Months Ago
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I looked at pass side location, near as I can tell there would be room for a 1/8 pipe sending unit (less than a inch tall when treaded in) , depending on how deep bushing is pressed in.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Months Ago
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Just wondering, why would you want the sender on the right bank?
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 3 Months Ago
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The Ford bushings are either 1/4" or 3/8" pipe threads, so to put an 1/8 sending unit in would require a bushing to install it, which would make the sender sit higher. Of course, a head bushing could be fabricated with 1/8" threads in it.
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By Skyliner57 - 2 Months Ago
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i have a new Equus 7232 that I am trying to put in a 56 292/312. I know the theaded hole in the engine is 3/8 MIP-doea anyone know what the thread size of the temp sender? Thanks.
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By Ted - 2 Months Ago
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The sending units are NPT. The factory installed bushings are also NPT.
My understanding is MIP is a straight thread while NPT is a tapered thread. If the replacement bushing has a threaded hole that is larger on one side than the other, I would call it NPT. To date, I have not seen a replacement bushing that was not NPT. When I make new bushings from scratch, I thread them with an NPT tap.
The side of the bushing with the larger sized hole would be facing out when installing the bushing. If the bushing threads are truly MIP, then a NPT threaded sending unit will screw into it but sealing might be compromised.
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By 55blacktie - 2 Months Ago
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If your bushing is not an OEM replacement, you might have difficulty finding the correct size sender. OEM-size bushings are available for Y-blocks; there's even a tool available for removing the "bushing" from the head. I removed the bushing from my 57 head and replaced it with a 55 bushing. My 55 Tbird will retain the original sender & gauge and will also have an Autometer electric gauge & sender; the sender will be installed just near the thermostat (thanks, Ted).
If you have difficulty finding the correct bushing, the Tbird suppliers have them. I think I bought mine from Hill's. The outside diameter is the same for all, only the thread size is different.
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By pintoplumber - 2 Months Ago
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In the plumbing trade, MIP stands for male iron pipe. Which is a tapered thread. Perhaps that was what was referred to?
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By miker - 2 Months Ago
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pintoplumber,
That’s very interesting. Being from the electrical trade, I’m familiar with our pipe fittings. Typically tapered, (NPT) on the male, but often straight on the female. As any electrician who used one of our couplings on a water line can testify. They leak. Guilty.
I went and looked up MIP, it says they’re good for higher pressures. I did a lot of industrial work, but never heard the term from the fitters. I did see some real high pressure stuff welded after assembly. Comments? On lower pressures will they interchange?
Just for my general sum of knowledge, never too old to learn.
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By Skyliner57 - 2 Months Ago
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Thanks to all of you for your reply---I did contact Equus and they informed me they had an adapter. Actually, they have a kit-9852--about 11.00 from Equus and 14.95 from Amazon. The kit had the 3/8 that fit the block and then a female thread---5/8-18. Who the h____ every heard of a 5/8-18? Well, it is installed and not leaking.
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