|
By stbart - 2 Years Ago
|
Just the other day, after some comments from my previous post, I had decided to leave my damper alone. Well, my new timing light has just shown me a problem. At least I think it is a problem. Using the new (my first) timing light, it shows my timing REALLY far off! I measured and put more timing marks on the damper, and according to the light, I am at about 25 degrees RETARDED. The car starts immediately, and runs great. I know my idle is tiny bit high, it is about 600 rpm. I am quite sure that my timing is not at 25 retarded. I have a diagram that Ted had posted showing the position of the crankshaft keyway when at TDC, but I have to remove the power steering pully before I will be able to see the keyway. I am guessing that even though the damper does not show any sign of slipping that I can notice, it must have slipped. Anyone agree? Or would there be some other explanation? The diagram that Ted posted shows the keyway at 108 degrees from the TDC mark. From my experience, the car wouldn't run and start this good if the timing was retarded that much.
So to me, it appears that I will have to get that damper rebuilt.
Please share thoughts/opinions/facts/advise/info
|
|
By DryLakesRacer - 2 Years Ago
|
|
I went to check the timing on mine after installing new spark plugs and found it 10* retarded. Thought it was not right, started moving the distributor to correct it and the engine would not run. Put it back close, removed it, and sent it to Damper Dudes for rebuild. I have know idea when it moved. While it was gone I removed the “steady rest”. I had to remove the radiator also so I cleaned up the front of the engine while it was gone. Since I live Ca if was back in 2 days. I filed the TDC line deeper too.
|
|
By Joe-JDC - 2 Years Ago
|
|
The only way to know for sure is to do a top dead center check and verify the notch/mark has moved. If TDC is correct, then the distributor was possibly installed one tooth off causing the disparity. Joe-JDC
|
|
By charliemccraney - 2 Years Ago
|
The red line shows about where TDC should be. 25 degrees retarded is about 35 degrees off if it starts easily and runs well. You will be able to tell by simply looking at the damper.
|
|
By one piece at a time - 2 Years Ago
|
|
Listen to Joe. No need to go to all the work of removing the damper if it’s not needed. If not sure how to do a TDC check ask. It’s a lot simpler than unnecessary removal of the damper.
|
|
By stbart - 2 Years Ago
|
|
To verify TDC, I figure that if I compare the keyway position to the TDC mark at the pointer and the distributor being at cylinder #1 ?
|
|
By charliemccraney - 2 Years Ago
|
If you want to verify the exact position, no, it's a little more involved. .
If you just want to see if it is really about 25 degrees retarded, all you have to do is look at the damper referencing the picture I posted. 25 degrees is enough that you will be able to see it with no special tools required. If it is that far off, it needs to be replaced or rebuilt.
|
|
By Ted - 2 Years Ago
|
For the timing to be 25° retarded, I am taking it that you are seeing the ignition timing being indicated on the left side of TDC when looking from the front. That would be indicative of ATDC degrees and indeed retarded or late. If that’s the case, then the damper has very likely slipped. In a normal scenario, the ignition timing will be on the right side of the TDC on the damper indicating degrees of advance or BTDC.
A quick and dirty check for this that does not involve removing a spark plug is to look at the valve overlap on either the #1 or #6 cylinders. This check does involve removing a valve cover and then rotate the engine so that the #1 or #6 valves are at their ‘level’ overlap position or where both valves are slightly open. It doesn’t matter which of these two cylinders you use as both share the same TDC on the damper. With the exhaust valve closing and the intake valve opening, find that point where both valves are level to each other. A small straight edge across both retainers will help to determine this. With both the intake and exhaust valves level with each other, the TDC on the damper is expected to be within 0-5° of TDC in the advanced position. Anything different from this has something out of sync with the damper being at the top of the list.
|
|
By stbart - 2 Years Ago
|
Being it is Friday, and this issue is bugging me to no end, I called my boss a jackass and he told me to stay home and work on this car! (I am self employed)
Thanks for the tips. I will do the methods suggested and find out where the problem is.
I will report my findings.
|
|
By stbart - 2 Years Ago
|
I followed the method Ted suggested. I used a straightedge across the valves, ensuring that that are level, and the timing pointer is 3 inches from the TDC mark on the damper to the left, or ATDC.
Is is safe to say that the damper is bad?
|
|
By charliemccraney - 2 Years Ago
|
It is bad.
I'm not sure what the diameter is but 3 inches should be about 50 to 55 degrees off if my guess is in the ballpark.
|
|
By stbart - 2 Years Ago
|
|
|
By stbart - 2 Years Ago
|
|
This is what I found. The blue dot is the TDC mark. It sure doesn’t match the other picture.
|
|
By paul2748 - 2 Years Ago
|
Yes - if you are looking at the damper and pointer from the front as Ted said.
stbart (3/25/2022)
I followed the method Ted suggested. I used a straightedge across the valves, ensuring that that are level, and the timing pointer is 3 inches from the TDC mark on the damper to the left, or ATDC. Is is safe to say that the damper is bad?
|
|
By 55blacktie - 2 Years Ago
|
|
One is between 9 & 10; the other is closer to 12. I don't see how turning them over/looking at them from another angle will put the two marks in the same location.
|
|
By stbart - 2 Years Ago
|
The damper is all packaged up and on its way to The Damper Dudes!
Thank you everyone for the tips and comments.
I will have more questions soon as I have a few more things I am fixing before the summer season.
|
|
By Ted - 2 Years Ago
|
|
Once you get that damper back from the rebuilder, I will suggest that you scribe or cut a mark across the pulley groove parallel with the ‘TDC’ mark on the damper ring so that you can always verify that the damper ring has not slipped. This is just good insurance for checking that the damper ring is staying in place as time goes on.
|