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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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Looking at the heads there are a mix of bolts. Some grade 7 with six tick marks, some with four tick marks (?), some grade 5 with three tick marks and all have an F in the center. Four bolts just have FT in the center.
I have not removed them to measure the lengths yet. But I thought it odd on one head the three center bolts have a grade 7 then a grade 5 then one with four tick marks. The bottom five bolts under the exhaust header are a mix with six and four tick marks
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Grade markings on the tops of the head bolts are as follows:
0 marks – Grade 1 or Grade 2
3 marks – Grade 5
4 marks – Grade 6
5 marks – Grade 7
6 marks – Grade 8
A large number of 1963-1964 292 engines pulled down for rebuilding have had the Grade 8 head bolts versus many of the earlier models having Grade 5 or Grade 6 bolts and a limited number of engines having head bolts with no marks at all.
No idea on the significance of ‘F’ or ‘FT’ on the bolts but I see Ford Y head bolts with and without those. Could potentially just mean they are 'FoMoCo' bolts. As a general rule, my own preference is Grade 8 for Y head bolts. There would appear to be fewer head gasket issue with those versus the lower grade of bolts.
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted.
I searched the web and no site I found with diagrams and listing showed 4 ticks.
I pressurized the engine and removed the plugs like you suggested but nothing spat out the holes. Not even a drip. But both tailpipes spat coolant out yesterday before
when I moved the car in.
My next move is to check the lengths like you told me. I would not be that surprised if that is the case what with this mix of grades that looks like they just reached in a bin of spare bolts when they attached these.
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By Joe-JDC - 3 Years Ago
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Exhaust pipes will spit water out, especially in very cold weather, until the engine thoroughly heats up enough to dry out the moisture from condensation and the entire exhaust system gets hot enough to cook off the moisture in the mufflers from the condensation. That is why it is suggested that a vehicle must drive at least 7 miles before the condensation is completely gone, or then engine run for 15-20 minutes at high idle speed. New cars spit out water until they get completely hot the same way. I see it all the time when leaving home early in the morning and following a neighbor or another vehicle that just pulls onto the highway. Joe-JDC
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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I live in Florida. It's 83 degrees. This was neon green antifreeze that a dog with no nose could smell. There was also antifreeze in the oil.
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By Joe-JDC - 3 Years Ago
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I didn't see mention of anti-freeze in the mix or color in your post. That is another issue altogether. Joe-JDC
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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That was a reply to Ted. He and I had discussed that issue via email and, as usual, he has been a wealth of info and immense help.
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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Ugh, Oil and coolant mix in 4 head bolt holes.
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By PF Arcand - 3 Years Ago
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I've seen plated bolts with several marks on top (don't recall how many) & marked "F" & was told they are "Fedalloy" bolts & are at least grade 8.. It was suggested that they are Aircraft quality..
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By DryLakesRacer - 3 Years Ago
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Be careful where they go. From my understanding from 56 on there are 3 lengths and mine is a 56 heads and block. I just took off a cylinder head that was installed in a rebuild before I purchased the car and found 3 in the wrong place. I decided to by a new ARP set since I had removed the other cylinder head for a ring/piston problem.. They are available for less than $100 and well worth it since you have a mismatched set.
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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I checked them and they are in the right place. But some are obviously cut with a hack saw to length from longer bolts and some rather badly. Like half of the 1st thread is there and the other not because of the angle. A few 1/32 short as well.
I ordered a set of ARP bolts and washers from Tim McMaster yesterday and hope to get those soon. The Edsel manual I have stated the final torque is 90 lb. ft. so I checked them with a wrench and were well over that. Had to get most off with a 24" breaker bar as they were to murdered on for the powered wrench. I was able to do a chin up with one.
I am hoping it's just the gaskets gone and not both heads cracked from overtightening on rebuild what with the oil and coolant mixed in those holes.
Got Bestgasket head gaskets to put on and will put it to 75 like Ted has said in the past.
And here I was thinking "once I get the radio fixed I am all set".
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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70# for the short bolts and 75# for the long bolts are the targets for the grade 8 head bolt torque. Assuming the new bolts come with head bolt washers, install the bolts first without the washers to ensure that the bolt heads go down flush or almost flush with the cylinder heads. This will help to guarantee that the bolts are not bottoming out in their respective holes when you torque the bolts with the washers in place. If the washers have a chamfered side on the inside hole, install that side up or towards the bolt head. Be sure to lube the bolt threads before torquing.
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted. I will do just that. I am waiting for a set of head bolts from John Mummert. They are ARP. Called him on the 1st.
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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Still waiting on a set of head bolts.
Called a supplier on March 1st, gave CC # but he said was out of washers and he was going to call ARP and get more and send them.
2 weeks later still no word. Called him and asked about the order. Got the old "umm, well, umm, did you place an order"????
Told him on the 14th "just send the bolts I will get my own washers! I need bolts!" Hung up and called ARP for the washers and they gave me the part # and said Jegs was cheaper and faster. Got them last Thursday.
Today, still no bolts, still no charge on my CC#, no calls no emails. Sunday the 27th is the biggest car show of the year here. Very nice one where they shut down the downtown. You have to apply and then prepay if accepted. I would have to push the car there now!!!
I know it's not a big sale item for this guy, but I have bought an aluminum intake, one of his valley pan covers and other of his custom products in the past. Why can't people just do a simple job.
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By DryLakesRacer - 3 Years Ago
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I normally purchase the ARP studs, bolts, nuts, and washers we use from Headbolts.com since my son and I use them for our other racing engines and they usually have what we need and ship the following day. I used them for my 292 YBlock and received them in 4 days as they were in stock last week. Came ARP lube also an 1 extra washer for some reason. Not one of our normal responders/suppliers here but have good to us.
They were the set with 3 different lengths. It’s the one receipt. I can’t find. It was not the set for the early engine.
If I would have thought about it I would have bought the 4 outside as studs by length after checking the depth of the thread and shank section needed from ARP. It’s how I buy studs for my GMC 6’s.
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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I saw that listing, but they have been showing out of stock for the last month.
At this point I would buy them from ISIS or Putin and pay dearly for them.
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By kirkbird55 - 3 Years Ago
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I'm also looking for a set of head bolts and I may have a work around for the ARP kit that is backordered. Following DryLakesRacer's lead, I ordered chbs-1221 from headbolts.com which are in stock. That is the ARP kit with all of the long bolts the same size. Then I ordered ARP655-4250 from pitstopusa.com. That kit has 5- 7/16-14 x 4.25" chromoly bolts that I plan to swap for the outside bolts on each head. Seems like it should work. I'll post again once I get them.
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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But the bolts needed for the four long head bolts on the top outers are 7/16 -14 x 4.32" and the set in the ARP are 4.25". Will it be long enough with the washer included?
Also just looked at headbolts.com and they are listing them as out of stock.
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By kirkbird55 - 3 Years Ago
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Headbolts.com showed the kit in stock last night. This morning I had email saying the order was cancelled and now I see it is out of stock.
As far as the lengths, you are correct. There were no washers when I took it apart, so I guess I'll put it back together without washers.
Using the 4.25" bolts on the outers without washers will be a lot better than the 4" bolts I took out.
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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You can go to any industrial hardware supply and get Socket Head bolts and hardened washers in whatever size you want, just make sure there grade 8 or higher .
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By skyhunter - 3 Years Ago
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I contacted ARP and told them what the FoMoCo bolts sizes were originally, and they emailed me these part numbers for their replacements.
HAP4.300-5 7/16 -14 x 4.300"
HAP4.060-5 7/16 -14 x 4.060"
HAP2.180-5 7/16 -14 x 2.180"
Washers APW1316
I contacted them today and will get them Thursday, which is great.
Just before I called them. I called Mummert for the 3rd time. I called him on the 1st (said he had bolts in stock but no washers and would call ARP), called the 14th (said he still had no washers yet so I gave him my CC# and he said he would ship out just the bolts). Again, after no CC charges for a week I called him again today and said he wrote all my info down but he said "I did not send them yet but I got some stuff from ARP Thursday so I can send them!!!". Well lying and blowing me off for weeks was no bueno. I asked him after calling and being told he would send them, What's the disconnect? He just said "It is what it is, you want them?" I wish I could have reached through the phone.
I will probably grind off his name from the intake and the valley pan cover while I got them off so I do not advertise him at car shows. EABODs
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By Lord Gaga - 3 Years Ago
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Skyhunter, I've got a nice sharp carbide burr I can loan you!
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