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By Mats Paulsson - 4 Years Ago
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Hi.
I have a Mercury Montclair from 1956 with a 312. The engine is out from the car for renovation of the heads and general overhaul of the engine.
I will keep it stock, but perhaps upgrade the camshaft one step from stock if possible.
What i have is:
Stock 312 from 1956 225HP
Engineblock: Stock ECZ 6015C
Heads:Stock ECZ- C comp.9,0 :1
Intake manifold : ECZ 9425-B singel 4 barrel.
Exhaust manifold: Stock
Carburattor : Edelbrock 1404 cfm 500
Rockerarms : ECG 6564 ratio 1.54:1
Distributor : from y-block 1961 with Ignitor
Transmission : Merc-O-Matic 3-speed
Rear axle: stock with gear ratio 3:15
If i choose a new camshaft with stock spec. which brand has best quality (US made) and type of ? same for the lifters.
If i want little more out of the engine can i go for Isky 3000444 (E4 ) with the spec. above? or is there any camshaft in between stock camshaft and E4 with good quality?
I prefer a low and mid range camshaft , i only use the car for street and crusing, and it is importante with good idle.
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By Cliff - 4 Years Ago
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E4 is good, watch the deck height and thickness of the head gasket (important) Isky or Johnson lifters are good.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Take a look at Mummert's 57+ cam. It has more lift (Ted says Y-blocks like lift) than the E4 and a wider lobe separation angle (111). Ted has recommended an E4 ground with 112 LSA vs. 108 for off-the-shelf E4.
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By slumlord444 - 4 Years Ago
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I ran a regrind of the 57 Blower cam for some time. Still have the engine stashed away. A bit more radical than the stock 57 cam but a good mild street cam. Not sure exactly how this compares to the Isky E4.
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By PF Arcand - 4 Years Ago
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Oregon Cams, out of Vancouver Wash, can make a copy the 1957 Cam, which is a step up from your 1956 Cam, assuming that your engine wasn't overhauled at some point previously?. I mention that because Ford's factory replacements after '57 were actually '55 cams or according to Mummert, close to truck spec's.. A '57 cam has more lift & duration than the earlier Cams, but not enough to cause issues with the auto trans.. .
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By Mats Paulsson - 4 Years Ago
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Ok, tanks for info. do you think it is special valve springs for a -57 stock camshaft?
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By 312YBlock - 4 Years Ago
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For whatever it’s worth I have an Isky E4 in my 312 and am very happy with the low to midrange performance. I have a 55 T-Bird w/T-86 3 speed OD and non OD 3.78 rear. It wakes up around 1,000 rpm.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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The cam grinder/manufacturer will recommend spring specs, which are usually found on the cam card. The stock cam has about .400 lift at the valves. As the lift goes up, so should the spring pressure. Usually cam and springs come from the same source, but not always.
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By 2721955meteor - 4 Years Ago
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ther is a cam grinder in vancouver canada,he has the 57 312 pattern works well re the3 lifters I have a set of regrind lifters(the top for higher lift cams,5,00 each
have had great results with blocking the return tubes and having pressure lube for all valve train.ofcoarce at least removing rocker shaft core plugs and cleaning out the sludge that accumulates back from drain tubes.if your heads are redbuilt and new valve seals no issues. also is you take .030 off the heads and use thecmposition gaskets you will be the same compression as the old shim gaskets.measures a set of commission gaskets after use and they wher .030 thicker than steel ones cam grinder is Shadbolt cams Vancouver canada. 604 732 9505
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Ken Heard of Oregon Cams will be happy to answer any questions you might have. Ken, and Jerry Cantrell of Schneider Racing Cams have been most helpful. Although I've yet to install it, I ended up purchasing Schneider's 258 Y-block cam. If you have some idea what you want, you can go to Oregon Cams' website, click on "Mechanical Cams" and take a look at their numerous grinds. For your particular application, Ken might suggest a custom grind. They can either regrind your cam or supply a new one. They also regrind y-block lifters. Tim McMaster (y-blockguy.com) has used their products.
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By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
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This question often comes down to "What does the cam sound like at idle?" Most Y-Blockers these days are into nostalgia. We don't race our cars, but we want them to sound right on cruise night. Isky makes two cams that I considered when I built my current TBird engine, the 301444 and the 301333. I have used both of these cams in the past. As amazing as it may sound, I actually got to talk to old man Isky once on the phone. I called for advice and they put him on the phone. The 301444 (.425" lift 260 duration) is what most people call an E4. It's a fairly mid street cam with good manners. The tail pipe sound is similar to a hot flat head. The 301333 (.448 lift 270 duration) is the cam currently in my Tbird engine. It still has it's original T-86 three speed manual with O/D. This cam has a much racier idle sound. It will blow your pants legs around when standing next to the through bumper exhaust pipes. My engine has a Holley 465 cfm 4V carb. Off idle and mid range is excellent. If you want a mild mannered 50s idle, I would go with the 301444. If you want a racier sound. the 301333 will do the trick. Both cams will work with stock valve springs.
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By 312YBlock - 4 Years Ago
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The E4 idles nice an smooth (no cam rock) yet gives a nice exhaust sound telling something robust is under the hood. 🚙
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By Mats Paulsson - 4 Years Ago
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Ok, Thanks a lot so far!👌
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By PF Arcand - 4 Years Ago
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You need to evaluate the advice given carefully. I've noticed on here previously, that some advice appears to forget the outline of the needs in the original post.. For instance, your car has an auto trans, not a standard. The wrong cam can be a problem at idle in gear. The E4 cam seems to be popular with the recent posts, but as someone pointed out, our lead moderator Ted prefers to have it done on a wider LSA than std, to settle it down some. Maybe he might elaborate on that if he sees your post?..
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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The FOM automatic transmissions have tight (low rpm stall) torque converters and as a result the transmissions are not happy with upgraded camshafts when trying to idle in gear at low rpm. When it comes to replacement stock type Y camshafts, both Oregon Cam Grinding and Isky offer camshafts similar (if not exact) to the factory 1957 camshafts. Keep in mind that the 1957 272, 292, and both the D and E code 312’s all used the same camshaft. I have checked the lobe profiles on several 1957 camshafts and there are some variances in the measured specs on those which is simply attributed to the manufacturing variances that occur when making thousands of the same part. That likely explains to some degree why some of those engines ran better than others.
The Isky E4 camshaft ground on 112° lobe centers is marginal at best when used with the early FOM trannies as the engine has a very narrow tuning window for that camshaft to idle correctly with the transmission in ‘Drive’. This same cam being ground on 114° lobe centers helps with the lower idle. The catalog listed E4 camshafts are ground on 108° lobe centers and do run with about 1½”Hg less manifold vacuum at idle as compared to the same camshaft ground on 112° lobe centers. That lower lobe centerline number results in requiring a slightly higher idle for a good carburetor signal. Hence the 108° lobe centerline is not recommended for a use with a tight converter.
When using the Oregon Cam Grinding 1957 camshaft, I always specify a new core and never a regrind. The OCG cam number is FO-312. Isky does use new cores to start with so I do not have to specify that when going the Isky route. The Isky camshaft that closely mirrors the 1957 cam would be the Isky S-969 grind when ground on 113° lobe centers. I always specify 2° of cam advance built into the camshafts when custom ordering to help with the degreeing in process.
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By Mats Paulsson - 4 Years Ago
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Thanks for all information! Perhaps i will go for a stock camshaft like Melling SYB-2, Elgin E-210-S etc. instead of a special one,, i dont have the G-heads and i´m not so good in camshafts and perhaps it is not so easy to order specials from Sweden.
Ted, can you recomend me any brand with good quality stock performance both for camshaft and lifters that i can order from like Summit etc., se the spec of my engine in the beginning.
Regards.
Mats
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By Joe-JDC - 4 Years Ago
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Not Ted, but you can order the ISK-30144 camshaft and CCA-2931-16 lifters from Summit. Should work fine for you in a nearly stock engine. Joe-JDC
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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The "ISK-30144" cam is the Isky E4 cam/w 108 LSA, which Ted just said he does not recommend for a Fordomatic-equipped car.
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By 57RancheroJim - 4 Years Ago
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OP said he has a 61 dizzy..
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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Mats Paulsson (12/7/2021)
Ted, can you recommend me any brand with good quality stock performance both for camshaft and lifters that i can order from like Summit etc., se the spec of my engine in the beginning.
Regards.
Mats
I don’t see a Summit offering for a 1957 camshaft. If concerned about keeping the performance of the engine optimal, then avoid the replacement 1958-1964 camshafts. While those 58-64 camshafts idle good and at very low rpm, they are down on performance compared to the 1957 grind. I'll suggest you try calling the cam company of your choice and see what their options are for doing overseas sales. If willing to settle for a 58-64 camshaft, then Summit may have something.
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By Mats Paulsson - 4 Years Ago
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Ok, if i now choose the Isky S-969 camshaft that you recomend which seems to be the best option for me, can you help me with the exact spec when i talk to Isky, how much advance etc.I am not that good at camshafts
perhaps you have a ordering numer or code for this camshaft?
Do you know approximate delivery time?
Thanks for all the help so far.
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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John Mummert was mentioned only in passing early on in this thread but he does offer a range of camshafts for the Ford Y. Either take a look at his website or give John a call and see what he has to offer.
In regards to your query regarding the Isky S-969 cam, the turn-around time for custom Isky camshafts has always been very quick for me. I typically receive the custom ordered camshafts about 10 days after placing the order and no later than two weeks. I usually specify ground shipping which takes approximately five business days for those shipments to arrive from California to Texas. That means that Isky is doing those camshaft orders almost immediately upon receiving the orders. Overseas shipments would obviously have some more delay built into the shipments.
To order the Isky camshaft, you would need to specify the following.
Part number 301 S-969, ground on 112° lobe centers, ground with 2° cam advance
Here’s what the cam sheet for that particular camshaft looks like.
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By Mats Paulsson - 4 Years Ago
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Thanks a lot Ted for all information!! very kind of you, i have a last question in this subject (i hope) what type and brand of springs do you recommend for this cam and where can i buy them?
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By paul2748 - 4 Years Ago
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At one time ISKY cams did not have the correct groove on their cams. Is this still the situation??
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By 57RancheroJim - 4 Years Ago
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Paul, thats a good question. Does anyone know if anyone ever talked to Isky about it? I installed an E4 in 2016 and wasn't aware of the problem at that time and I'm sure it probably had the shallow grove but it seems the top end is oiling fine..
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By Ted - 4 Years Ago
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paul2748 (12/9/2021)
At one time ISKY cams did not have the correct groove on their cams. Is this still the situation??
Not necessarily incorrect but can be considered too shallow for the current crop of soft babbit cam bearings that are available. This is not just an Isky issue but is industry wide for anyone using CWC cores for Y-Block camshafts. Said another way, all CWC Y-Block camshaft cores used by most of the different cam grinders have that center groove depth problem. While I usually add a groove to the engine block behind the center cam bearing to ensure an adequate flow of oil to the top end of the engine for the long haul, machining that camshaft center journal groove deeper is also an accepted fix for that.
Stock valve springs will prove adequate for use with the Isky S-969 camshaft. While the recommended Isky valve springs can be used, the heads do need to be machined to accommodate those as the boss on the heads that center the valve springs is too large in diameter for the Isky springs. I recommend going with single piece valve spring retainers also and eliminating the two-piece retainers that originally came on the engines.
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By PF Arcand - 4 Years Ago
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J. Mummert says his shop machines the Cam groove deeper on all the Cams they sell, however he doesn't indicate how much deeper?.. It would be nice to have that info available, even if installing a replacement stock cam..
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