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By Eric16 - 3 Years Ago
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Hello YBF,
New member here, first post! I recently purchased a 1956 Victoria with a stock 292 and 3 speed with OD. Love the car, and it'll do 70mph all day. I'm a younger guy with a hot rod and muscle car background. To be honest, the car is a great for going down the highway, but lacks "personality" around town. I'm looking to have a hopped up 292 built to make the car a little bit more fun.
So far I've planned to use:
292 block
312 crank
G posted heads
-B intake
Holley Sniper EFI
Reads 4 into 1 headers
I was curious if anyone out there has done a similar build? Any experience using Holley Sniper EFI? Any guidance on using an MSD distributor vs a stock one with Petronix?
Any help is greatly appreciated!
-Eric
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By charliemccraney - 3 Years Ago
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RE the distributor, an MSD will be 100% brand new, not worn out. Original, even in the best case is going to have wear because parts are not available to truly return them to like new condition. Pertronix now produce a Y-Block distributor, which gives another option.
You won't need posted G heads for a street build. If you already have them, they are better but if you do not, don't get hung up on that. It will make it a much easier task to find the heads, giving you more options.
What kind of power are you shooting for?
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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Ted told me that he routinely posts non-posted heads. If you intend to have more that .025 milled, I would seriously consider posting them. Ted also tested a CRT electronic distributor on loan from a forum member. Results were good, and it's significantly cheaper than the MSD, which Ted has used. The CRT distributor is made in China, but I'm pretty sure that the MSD is as well.
Gil Baumgartner (CTCI Gil's Garage) has done efi conversions on 55-57 Tbirds. You can try emailing him if no one replies on this forum.
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By Eric16 - 3 Years Ago
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I didn't have an exact number I was set on. Just digging through some of Ted's builds, 300hp didn't seem too unrealistic. My goal was to stick with the iron heads and intake, and have a shop massage them a little bit, and see what I can get.
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By Eric16 - 3 Years Ago
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What are you running for a motor, trans, and rear end to get such a good combo in your Victoria?
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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Eric16, you can find Y-block intake, carburetor, and header tests, along with numerous Y-block engine builds, at eatonbalancing.com. Click on "Quick Index."
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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Take a look at Mummert's Y-280-1-11 cam specs at ford-y-block-com. You have the gears, and the 111 LSA should be ok with the Sniper. You might also look at Isky's RPM 300 cam, but Ted says that Y-blocks like lift; in which case, the Y-280-1-11 would be the better choice. I would also zero-deck the block and mill the heads if using flat-top pistons, preferably with metric rings. If I could afford $3,000+ for Mummert's aluminum heads, I would either go that route or consider forced induction. Your budget might be the deciding factor.
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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By the way, I would like to hear more about your Sirius conversion. I plan to do the Aurora conversion, but maybe there's a better option.I stopped listening to over-commercialized am radio in 1967. Unfortunately, fm is now the new am. No more "free lunch."
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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And thanks, DLR, for not making noise, just for the sake of making noise.
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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DLR, I have the Newport wipers, as well, but haven't installed them. I'm also converting to manual heater control valve; getting rid of the vacuum stuff.
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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I remember having seen your a/c unit before and commenting that it's the nicest installation I've seen. I would say that applies to the whole car as well.
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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The glove box door droops a bit, just like on my 55 Tbird. I think most of them are like that. As long as it doesn't rattle, I'm good with it.
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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Why not just build a 312? it's a lot cheaper, that's what I run in both of my street cars, my supercharged bird was built in 1994 with no problems.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 3 Years Ago
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To the original question, my build is very similar to what you are proposing - 292 block, 312 crank, -G heads, -B intake except I used a 600cfm holley and a clone 57 cam. 100% pleased whth this build but I would explore a different method of "0" decking if I were to do this again. Since we are fortunate to have a rare 312 crank, instead of trashing a lot of good metal from the deck, why not use 292 rods and remove the excess metal from the pistons to achieve "0" deck? I believe it was Ted who suggestded that - makes a lot of sense to me. I hope others will comment as to there being enough stock on the pistons to do this along with other pros/cons. It's been a long time ago but I think it was around .025 removed from the decks and another .010 from the heads which made it very difficult to install the valley pan, even with compisition gaskets. Also removed some stock from the tintke surface of the heads but If I can remember correctly, it was a little less than the reccomended 140% of what was removed from the deck and heads combined.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 3 Years Ago
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DLR, it's been quite a while but static worked out to just shy of 9:1 and it's very obvious the engine likes premium 93 octane. I probably should revisit the fact sheet but it's a stdandard 312 bore, pistons are .008 in the hole, FelPro gaskets and small letter G heads milled .010 if anyone wanats to check. Yes the 312 mains must be ground down to std. 292 dimension. I was fortunate the grinder in my area maintained the oil slinger. I've always wished I knew about the possibility of using the longer 292 rods and machining the pistons to achieve 0 deck/ Thjus requiring removing only enough of the deck iron to true and square. I haveto say, I really am happy with this build. It pulls really good, maybe too good.
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By Eric16 - 3 Years Ago
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I honestly haven't dug into the details of the build yet. Just starting out with the big picture items and trying to track them down. I'd love to hear what you guys think when it comes to advice on rods, pistons, and cams.
DLR, I love your AC install! Sometime down the road when I add AC, I'd like to have a panel for the controller and vents just like you made.
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By charliemccraney - 3 Years Ago
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Take a look at this thread. It's an engine very similar to what you plan, right at about 300hp. It's probably about as precise a parts list as you can find for that goal.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic110858-1.aspx
Rods won't matter too much for a build like that. Use new, ARP bolts and refurbish original rods. The pistons will be determined to some extent based on the cam you choose, for an appropriate dyanamic compression ratio and very likely be custom and domed, if you want to get the most out of the engine.
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By miker - 3 Years Ago
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I have a 292 block, 312 crank, offset ground for 320cid. It’s currently got Mummert’s heads and has a 10.7 compression ratio. Measured, not calculated. The cam is a custom ground unit, after some consultation with Ted Eaton, my builder and John Mummert. It’s got a dynamic ratio of 8.7.
The induction is an Accel Gen 7 unit with a Boss EFI throttle body on a Blue Thunder manifold. It also controls the ignition timing. (That lets me run the original 55 tach drive distributor as it’s locked out with a Ford duraspark unit).
I didn’t ever do a full dyno pull on the chassis dyno, so no numbers. It runs great and drives great.
I stopped by the dyno shop today and asked what he thought about the Sniper units. He’s done several, and has one in the box waiting to be installed for a customer. He likes them, says the programming is good and the learning feature is better than the old Accel unit (which doesn’t really have one). It will control the timing “if you use the right distributor”. So that’s one guys opinion who’s not trying to sell you one.
That said, if I was back to step one, I’d be building a 9:1 motor, and looking at one of the better modern carbs, specifically the Autolites or one of the current clones.
In 2 other builds I used one of Mummert’s 270 cams, and one of the 280’s. Both stick shifts, I was happy with both. I found John’s recommendations on the site to be a little conservative, so if you’re used to living with more radical cams keep that in mind.
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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Miker, when you say that John's recommendations are "a little conservative," do you mean that his cams are bigger than he describes, or that it's safe to go with a bigger cam?
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By miker - 3 Years Ago
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I grew up around cars that were often over cammed. Some mine, some friends. I’m pretty tolerant of a rougher or higher idle, but it’s almost always been with a manual transmission. I think Jonh’s “descriptions” are good, but for me, if I’m on the line between 2 cams, I could live with the larger one. The other thing working here is I’ve used them in stroker motors, so there’s a little more displacement than stock. That tends to make the cam more “tame”. Maybe I should have mentioned that. But the cams are great, and the last one I bought came with the cam dr readout, so you know it’s what was advertised.
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By 55blacktie - 3 Years Ago
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Miker, with a dynamic compression ratio of 8.7, are you running 100+ octane race gas?
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By miker - 3 Years Ago
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No, but it’s a very careful timing curve in the computer. It did run nice on the $8 a gallon stuff if I put the curve back in. It’s probably $16 now. The aluminum heads do buy me a little leeway.
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By Eric16 - 3 Years Ago
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As I've kept digging, it sounds like a build using metric rings and an offset ground set up is where I would like to go.
The cam is another big part of what I'm looking for. I think I'm looking for something similar to what Miker is talking about. Numbers on a dyno are one thing, but pulling up to a stop light or a cruise in and getting everyone's attention is what makes me happy. I honestly don't know enough about cams to look at Mummert's chart and know what I'll get out of it. Based off of what Miker said, the 270 or 280 might be what I'm looking for. Honestly looking at the chart, the Y-284S sounds cool purely based off the fact he named it the "Cruise night special". But again, I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking at.
Has anyone here used the Y-284S?
Keeping in mind this will be using a offset ground 312 crank, manual transmission, with the goal of having plenty of "personality".
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By charliemccraney - 3 Years Ago
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If sound is your primary objective, then the Cruise Night Special should be good for that. If the rest of the engine and drivetrain is setup for it, it should be a good performer, too. For street use, the bigger the cam gets, the more critical it is to address those issues as well. Otherwise, you get the sound but with really sluggish performance and poor economy. To me, it's good to have the sound, along with the performance to back it up.
One of the 280s might be ok. The 270 will have a non stock sound, but probably not the attention getting sound you are after.
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By Joe-JDC - 3 Years Ago
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I just made over 400 hp with my 345 Y using the Isky 280-I-11 with 9.43:1 compression and DCR of 7.98. My ported 113 heads, my ported BT intake, FPA headers, BG 930 Carb. Fairly radical idle, but will idle down to 700 rpm. I was planning on a Y Block Magazine article, but have not gotten a reply from either of the magazine's editors showing any interest in the build. Joe-JDC
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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Good job Joe, can I ask what flow you got out of those heads @.500 lift?
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By Joe-JDC - 3 Years Ago
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If memory serves me, just over 230 cfm @ .500", and 246 cfm at .650f". These heads were drilled for 1/2" head bolts many years ago for a race engine, and I had to be careful not to hit water with the port work. Trying to salvage a block and heads which worked out decent in the end. Ted and I took this engine from bare block to dyno test in two days. Joe-JDC
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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I find about .550 lift is max I can fit into an engine with iron heads and a 2.02 valve , are you seeing the same?
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By Joe-JDC - 3 Years Ago
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Without cutting a valve notch, you will hit the cylinder wall for sure with anything over 1.960" or so. I tried a 2.000" valve on our 303 EMC Y with a camshaft with .600" lift at the retainer, and upon tear down, we had nicks in the notches on a couple of cylinders. It takes a dedicated template to get those notches in the right place for iron heads and oversize valves above ~.535". I would like to use offset dowels, one of the smaller chamber heads, and try to get the combustion chamber completely into the bore. I believe a person could get close enough to help, even with a lesser flowing head. I have a pair of 113 heads ready for the 303 EMC Y that flow 260 cfm in both upper and lower ports with 2.000" valves. Now it looks like EMC/MOM is dead in the water. Joe-JDC
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Joe-JDC (9/29/2021)
......I was planning on a Y Block Magazine article, but have not gotten a reply from either of the magazine's editors showing any interest in the build. Joe-JDC
Joe. Bruce Young had been hospitalized recently due to heart issues and while I haven’t heard otherwise, he should be out and recovering by now. The next issue of YBM will undoubtedly be late as a result but there’s no doubt that he will take any articles that are sent to him so they can be put in future publications. He does not get email at his home so I would not expect Bruce to be replying to emails in a timely manner right now. I’ll give him a call tomorrow and see how he is doing. Ted.
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By Joe-JDC - 3 Years Ago
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Sorry to hear about Bruce. I know what getting older means, and I also understand spouse illnesses. It seems our calendar is used more for Dr. appointments than anything else. Prayers for a complete recovery for everyone at the Magazine. Joe-JDC
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By miker - 3 Years Ago
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I’m sorry to hear about Bruce too. At 71, I’m seeing too much of that with my old friends.
One more thought on the cam. I’ve been “told”, meaning I don’t really know (a mistake I haven’t made yet?) that the aftermarket EFI units really like or need a higher vacuum signal at idle. Might be worth asking about that with the Holley unit before you pick the cam. Lone centers have an effect on that, along with other things, but I have a hard time getting my head around all the factors in a cam so I’ll leave that to someone more knowledgeable.
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By PF Arcand - 3 Years Ago
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Ted: thanks for letting us know about Bruce Young's recent medical issue.. I'm sure all of us familiar with Y-block magazine, wish him a speedy recouvery..
Interestingly, when I last renewed my subsription, I wondered how much longer he would continue the magazine? I knew like a lot of us, he wasn't a spring chicken anymore, but I have no idea what age he is ?..
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