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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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So my long term block build is really starting to move along. After what has to be nearly a record for “COVID” delays the long block should finally be coming home from the machine shop and should be pure y block porn. This is likely my last build and it’s going into a
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Sorry for the break Model A. Polished 471 machined LS H beam rods nitrided truck crank. Will post pictures of the build and hopefully the progress. I am getting really excited after so many delays. MIKE
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By 62bigwindow - 3 Years Ago
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Sounds like a fun build.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Small victory Cloyes timing set came today, with COVID delays whenever anything comes on time it seems like a miracle. MIKE
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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More parts arriving today! New starter motor and power steering pump Rock Auto.com came through when my old go to NAPA had nothing for me.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Was at the machine shop today inspecting parts for the 292 build. Saw the finished crank counter weights cut to balance the lighter piston/rod combination. Wish there was a plexiglass pan. Mike
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Bad news Cloyes timing chain loose and floppy, they say U.S. made but some of the parts are evidently made elsewhere. Here’s hoping the next chain and gears double roller supposedly U.S. made will be better. Just part of the adventure! MIKE
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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Manufacturing variance plays into the loose chain scenario. You can try another chain set made on a different day or by another manufacturer to see if you can get a tighter set. Another possiblity lies in the camshaft/crankshaft centerline measurement. If the block has been align bored or align honed, that measurement will shorten up making the chain having more slack than normal. Blocks that have been align bored/honed more than once can really get tricky on getting a chain set that’s not sloppy loose. Rollmaster at one time made timing sets that were up to 0.008" shorter in 0.002" increments for the Ford Y but I have not seen those for sale for a number of years now.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted we looked at the crank to cam dimension and it was reportedly within tolerance. Hopefully the next chain and gear set will be better. Seems like it will just be part of the adventure of building anything but a SBC. All advice truly welcomed! MIKE
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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If CLOYES has gone South (or west in this case), what manufacturer is recommended for a quality timing set?
EDIT - SAT Morning 0600 HRS -
Ted,
If you are taking your morning coffee and perusing ...
Has CLOYES quality gone down? What about MELLING and is ISKY made in-house?
Can I ask what you use/recommend during a non- performance rebuild?
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By miker - 3 Years Ago
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My 56 Merc block needed a shorter timing set due to the align bore issue. I think I used the Rollmaster, I know it came from AU. There were very specific measuring instructions, service and shipping was great. Might be worth an email if the next one doesn’t solve the problem. Last I looked they weren’t listed.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Tried to get a new Rollmaster and no dice. Unavailable. Thanks for the suggestion. Still hunting. MIKE
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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KULTULZ (7/30/2021)
Ted,
If you are taking your morning coffee and perusing ...
Has CLOYES quality gone down? What about MELLING and is ISKY made in-house?
Can I ask what you use/recommend during a non- performance rebuild?
Unfortunately being made in the U.S.A. is no guarantee on the parts being any better than what can now be made offshore. My confidence in new ‘shelf’ parts made in the U.S. has been slowly waning but I still have very good results with custom made parts. While I would prefer to support U.S. manufacturers when I can, parts availability has become marginalized forcing the need to simply use parts that are simply made offshore. As a general rule, some of the engine parts made in South America are better than most. Timing chain sets are a good example as gears and chains may be made in different countries and then put together as ‘sets’.
When it comes to timing chain sets, I am not brand particular. I have had issues with the best of them with many of those issues being around the key slot or dowel pin locations. If it’s any consolation and when discussing chain sets with excessive slack or free play, timing sets that are too tight are also a problem. Chain slack comes in second place compared to the timing issues caused by manufacturing variances. Those gears being machined in ‘stacks’ rather than individually can account for those variances making the gears at the bottom or end of the stacks more prone to manufacturing variances than the ones at the tops of the stacks. When I have an issue with a particular gear set, I’ll just use another gear set and see if the problem just goes away.
For cam timing, the problem can be in a multitude of places with the gear set just being one of those. For slack in the chain, it can become more complicated. Rotating the engine and checking the amount of slack at varying rotational intervals can help to isolate if the problem is at the gear set or potentially with the crankshaft to camshaft centerline measurement or in extreme cases, run out at the crankshaft snout where the lower crankshaft gear is installed. For a majority of engines, the timing set installation is pretty much straight forward but there are those instances where some extra diligence must be taken to take care of a specific issue.
It’s important to note that the gears themselves may not be truly concentric meaning if the chain has a given amount of slack in one position, simply turning the crankshaft will have that amount of ‘slack’ or looseness becoming better or worse. I prefer to check the slack amount at 90° crankshaft intervals and with the crankshaft being turned two full revolutions. Doing it this way will isolate gear out of round issues to being either the crank gear or the timing gear.
Just some early morning rambling so feel free to throw more comments or experiences out there on this subject.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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That come back and explanation was more than adequate.
THANX! for sharing your knowledge/experience ... 
Just one thing, when you find a set that won't install correctly and you say you use another set, does your parts jobber allow you to exchange freely or do you keep an inventory?
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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It is possible to have the gears plated to increase the diameter, my dad was in the platting business for 30 years, when a rocker adjuster was loose in the rocker, A run through the zinc tank made it as new. this could be done to to timing gears, talk to your platter.
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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KULTULZ (8/1/2021)
...Just one thing, when you find a set that won't install correctly and you say you use another set, does your parts jobber allow you to exchange freely or do you keep an inventory?
I normally do not return timing sets back to the vendor unless they are for an engine I do not deal with on a regular business. Both the shipping costs and the 20% stocking fee are a deterrent on the smaller ticket items. I will try those sets that did not work initially on another engine and some of those do end up working. Manufacturing variances in the blocks would account for some of this.
For the mainstream engines and typically those that have been align bored/honed, shorter sets are available which simplifies achieving the desired amount of slack in the chain. For the less popular engines which I tend to deal with on a regular basis, I have gotten away with measuring the gear diameters on the different sets and swapping them around to either tighten up or loosen the amount of slack in a chain set to get to where I need to be. That's definitely not a recommended practice but I have managed to get away with doing this at times. As little as a 0.015” difference in gear diameter can make for a significant change in chain slack. As mentioned earlier, being too tight is also a problem and tends to be a horsepower robber. Having a chain that's too loose tends to make the ignition timing less stable but the horsepower increase from being looser can be more than enough to offset any ignition timing ‘jitter’ that's present.
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By Lord Gaga - 3 Years Ago
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"It is possible to have the gears plated to increase the diameter, my dad was in the platting business for 30 years, when a rocker adjuster was loose in the rocker, I run through the zinc tank made it as new. this could be done to to timing gears, talk to your platter."
Cliff, I don't think plating would stand up to a silent or roller chain's constant wear. Sounds good for a mostly static part like a rocker adjuster though!
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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Yes it stays, cranks are plated all the time, I do this when it's the only thing left. you'll find when a crank or timing gear is nitrated it grows a little, the set in my dragster engine was nitrated, I had to hone the journal so it would fit the cam and the timing chain is tight.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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For the less popular engines which I tend to deal with on a regular basis, I have gotten away with measuring the gear diameters on the different sets and swapping them around to either tighten up or loosen the amount of slack in a chain set to get to where I need to be. That's definitely not a recommended practice but I have managed to get away with doing this at times.
It makes perfect sense to me.
THANX for the education.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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You 2 Cliff ...
The sharing of your knowledge is much appreciated ...
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By Lord Gaga - 3 Years Ago
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Cliff, how many hours or runs are on your dragster engine?
I just can't see plating working for very long on chain sprockets...maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so. lol
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Well it’s finally home and it’s really nice. Manley LSRods narrowed for the Y journals on a forged crank that was nitride down after it was cut for scruby rod journals. Should be super strong. I’m excited! MIKE
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Time for an update. Pan is on. Has a trap door to prevent starvation on breaking. Fully mirror chromed. I’m getting more excited witH each assembly step! 
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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I have a nitrated crank (cast 312) in my bird since 1994, I always (well lately) nitrate all camshafts and I may start to do lifters. They stay hard and don't wear, that B9AE is the block I like best, I like your work.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Thanks for looking! just going to stay at it little detail after little detail.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Now we start the porn section as the jewelry starts to get there. I’m lovin it! 
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Does anything look better than a Y getting dressed? Soon a polished 471 blower! Thanks for looking. MIKE
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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More progress today. Heads are now on, Y Bloke manifold is on. valve train and rockers set. LOVE IT! MIKE
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Now for the mock up of the blower. It’s all coming together.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Getting more done. Now for the Grant Flame Thrower. It’s a little close but I think it will work. Have 2 new points and condensers to install. Will put it in the distributor machine to set it up.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Front drive set up coming together. Power steering pump mounted, supercharger belt tensioner and belts alternator too. Just gets better and better. MIKE 
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Pure Y block porn.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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Put. The engine in the frame. Have to get it running, break in the cam and check for leaks.
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By famdoc3 - 3 Years Ago
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The latest update. Haven’t run it yet but plumbing, electric, and now the trans is mounted. It took a little work to get the trans to fit. I had to trim 3/8s of an inch off the throw out bearing to have room but it’s in now.
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