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By slumlord444 - 3 Years Ago
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There has been much discussion here in the past on this engine. It definitely showed up in Ford advertising but there were questions if they ever built or sold any. I just got a very nice reprint of the Ford Technical letters on the 300 Horsepower Supercharged 312. There is a lot of interesting technical and historical info in this. One thing that stuck out to me was several references to the 285 Horsepower engine. The plan was to discontinue the 270 and 285 Horsepower engines when the supply of 300 Horsepower engines caught up with the demand. It all ended with the AMA racing ban. All those references lead me to believe that the 285 Horsepower engine was out there. The conclusion from previous discussions here seemed to be that none of the 285 Horsepower engines have ever been actually documented. Anyone else gone over this info and have an opinion?
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By Cliff - 3 Years Ago
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This was provided by Don Antilla Take a look.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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It’s interesting that the Ford drawing for the EDB-D camshaft calls for 0.020” hot lash for the intakes and 0.025” hot lash for the exhausts.
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By slumlord444 - 3 Years Ago
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I recall seeing these valve adjustment specs before somewhere. I have a 312 in my stash of parts with a regrind of that cam in it. If I ever get it running again I'll have to try those settings. I always ran it at .019 and it was fine. I ran that engine both with the single 4 barrel and the E dual quads. Seemed like it ran a little better than the single 4 barrel cam. The local dirt track racers used that cam a lot back in the late '60's.
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By Ted - 3 Years Ago
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That booklet provided by Richard Stuck is a gold mine of information regarding the supercharger program but also provides other juicy behind the scenes tidbits. Those memos do indeed confirm that the 285HP program was in full swing. It’s too bad that those cars that did get those 285HP engines did not have their own engine code and instead were simply grouped with the other E code vehicles receiving the 270HP engines. While there are some production numbers in those memos regarding the 270HP engines, I did not see any production numbers for the 285HP engines that were being produced. What is needed now is an original new car invoice for that car actually having the 285HP engine as part of the order.
Another interesting piece of information in those memos was the continuation of the supercharger program for 1958. Based on those memos, there was going to be a supercharged 352 Interceptor engine. With the A.M.A. resolution banning ‘high performance’, that program was shut down and that memo is also included.
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By slumlord444 - 3 Years Ago
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I picked up on a lot of that info to Ted. Also interesting was a supercharger for the 58 T Bird. That would have been interesting. A 60 T Bird with the 430 Lincoln engine almost won the Datona 500 that year. Wonder how it would have done supercharged? The history is fascinating. The what if's more so.
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By PF Arcand - 3 Years Ago
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Still, no real Cam info on the 285 H.P. engine. However, in the specs it's listed for "Racing" So, I still suspect, based on info from the 1960s that the Cam they were using or going to use, was likely the early E-2 from Iskendarian.. It was a somewhat popular Cam for Oval Track Y-Block's...
.. The following is just an observation, based on info from people who knew more about it than I, that Ford's power rating for the 1958- 4 Bbl 352's of 300 H.P. was a figment of some engineer's imagination! I've heard estimates as low as 225 h.p for the standard 352 engine..Making them easy pickings in official Drag racing..
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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.. The following is just an observation, based on info from people who knew more about it than I, that Ford's power rating for the 1958- 4 Bbl 352's of 300 H.P. was a figment of some engineer's imagination! I've heard estimates as low as 225 h.p for the standard 352 engine..Making them easy pickings in official Drag racing..
Don't forget there were two versions of the 1958 352, early production w/ solid lifters and machined combustion chambers and the later w/ hydraulic valve-train.
That may be the reason for the rating. The late 352 was de-tuned. I had a 1960 352/300HP and while it ran good it was no 300HP, the same rating as the replacing HYD 390 that also wouldn't get out of its' way.
Just observing ...
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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I really enjoying reading posts on this subject. Your knowledge is amazing. When I was a kid, Y-Blocks were in their last days. We loved them because they were cheap, readily available and easy to work on. One Saturday, someone brought a 300 HP 352 around for us to see. It sounded great with the solid lifters clicking away. That car could turn the back tires to mush. I had a good friend who passed away a few years back that worked for Ford. He had one of the few 1960 430 Thunderbirds made with a manual transmission. He sold it before I got a chance to check it out. It's too bad Ford was so conservative back then. They caught back up in the sixties.
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By tbirddragracer - 3 Years Ago
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April 1958 I took delivery of a new 1958 Ford convertible with the 352 Intercepter Special engine with a Fordmatic transmission.
I special ordered this car in December of 1957. The engine had solid lifters that required constant adjusting, possibly because
the accelerator was seldom off the floor. I often thought this engine was built " loose " from the factory. I never lost a street race
to C car 348/3 duece standard or automatic. Y-blocks were no problem either. I blew up this motor at about 40,000 miles, and the
replacement motor was a dud, no power. With the top down and no passenger in the front seat, when the passenger seat blew
forward, the speedometer was always on 120 mph.
I was only 19 years old when I bought this car. Memories of my first new car are still fresh.
Ernie
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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Those early 352 PI motors were monsters. Their memory got lost in all the 390/427/428 FE noise. Back then, there was a lot of talk about FI Corvettes. No 283 could run on the street with a 352 PI in a light Ford no matter how many carburetors, fuel injection units and German engineered cams you put on them. The 348 was a truck engine. 409s were better, but mostly they were about the song. I love my 292, it's the great granddaddy of a multiple Le mans winner. You remember, the engine that sent Mr. Ferrari packing? Every Y-Block was one step closer to that goal.
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By KULTULZ - 3 Years Ago
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Let me add, the 1958 FE model run referred to the FE engine(s) as INTERCEPTOR. This did not imply POLICE INTERCEPTOR. It was more related with the industry fascination with aircraft at the period and advertising.
The actual PI Engines came in 361, 352, 332 and 223 believe it or not. The agencies could order only what they needed or could afford.The 361 was the hot one. I am a$$-u-me(ing) PI continued using the early design whereas PASS CAR got the down-grade. It is difficult to ascertain as dedicated POLICE had separate cataloging and you usually had to know someone.
The HOT 352 was the 1960 352/360HP. But the 390 (STD - PI - HP) replaced it in the 1961 model year.
One other note is MARKETING did not think the buying public would be happy with the clickity-clack of solids in a PREMIUM BIRD.
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By tbirddragracer - 3 Years Ago
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The 352 in my car was an Interceptor Special as designated by the script on the glove compartment door.
This motor had solid lifters and a four barrel carburetor. The Cruise-O-Matic transmission was new for 1958,
but I opted for the Fordmatic.
The replacement motor was not an Interceptor Special. I am not familiar with a 1958 Police Interceptor motor.
Ernie
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By 2721955meteor - 3 Years Ago
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1958 332s had a rare cylinder head with machined combustion chambers and a mechanical lifters, long pushrods. worked on several of these, in Canada all 352s and 361s where hyd. lifters and shorter push rods. the 332s used a od lifter as it was hollow to the botem with push rods rested on the bottom of the lifte .canadian 332s
had poor camshafts and needed constant adjusting if revd up. the rocker assembly's where great and if 1 got a 406 cam ,as well the 332 cylinder heads turned int a bit of a screamer and the better lifters ala 406
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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Around 20 years ago, I bought a nice 1963 galaxy 390 4V 4 speed 2 door from a guy in Jacksonville. In the deal, I got a complete Ford triple deuce intake, carbs and linkage. I decided to build that car into a 406 6V clone. I was looking for a set of heads for the car when I found some NOS 406 heads on EBay. Those heads had the smallest combustion chambers I ever saw on an FE. Not knowing any better or caring, I bolted those heads on the rebuilt 390 short block. The pistons I used were flat tops with small valve notches. I used a copy of the original 1963 427 stock cam I bought from Holman and Moody. I did check the piston to valve clearance. Those small chamber heads really perked up that 300 HP 390. The chambers were so small I always worried about the compression ratio and detonation. I ended up buying a pallet of lead additive which I used an alarming amount of. I was told I bought the last of the additive. Here's some photos.
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By PF Arcand - 3 Years Ago
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Refering to Florida Phil's remark about Ford being so conservative in the late 50s to early 60's . That's because in late '57, Robert McNammara, then Gen. Mgr. at Ford, bought "hook line & sinker" G.M.'s proposal at a joint meeting of the major companies, that the industy should shut down everything related to racing.. He thought he was dealing with honerable people.. Little did he know, that G.M. promply shipped all their high performance stuff out the back door to a company,( I Can't remember the 1st name) .........Engineering Co., run by a man named Vince Piggot... Much damage was done to Ford's performance image, until they really started to smarten up around 1963.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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. Robert McNammara, I remember him from the Vietnam period. My memories are not all good.
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By Dobie - 3 Years Ago
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McNamara was the one who convinced Ford that there was an unfilled market niche between Mercury and Lincoln, hence the Edsel. We know how that went...
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By slumlord444 - 3 Years Ago
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My memories from 1963 and up are that a good running 312 would out run or at least keep up with any 300 horse 352 or 390 in a full sized Ford. I read a Motor Trend road test comparing the 57 312's with the 58 352's. The 57 was faster. Motor Trend blamed it on the 58 going to a higher rear end ratio for better gas mileage. By 1960 the full sized Ford was heavier than the 57's, especially the Custom's. My 58 Ford Custom with a stock 292 with a 4 barrel and duals and 3 speed would easily out run my cousin's 64 XL 300 horse automatic 390. To me weight was a big factor. I'm sure there were some 58's that were quick but I never ran into one. The machined combustion chamber 352 heads were good though. A buddy them on a dirt track 352 and it was quick. Cams on the early 352-390's was a problem with the stock hydraluic lifter cams and poor valve springs. Many 390's would only go 4500 rpm with stock valve springs. I had one in a 57 Custom back then. 427 valve springs brought it up to 5000-5500 rpm. Add a 406 cam and solids and things got more interesting. A friend had a new Fairlane GT with the 330 horse 390 and 4 speed. Local 65 GTO 4 barrel 4 speed blew him off. Buddy added 427 valve springs and 406 cam and then blew the doors off the GTO. I never did understand how the 428 Cobra Jet ran so well. The cam had the same spec's as the 335 horse Fairlaine GT. Maybe the CJ heads which were basicly 406 heads were the difference. Interesting fun times.
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By Florida_Phil - 3 Years Ago
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When the 352 came out in the late 60s, cars were getting bigger every year. A 1957 Custom with a hot 312 could outrun a big Galaxy with an early FE on the street. By the time the FE overtook the Y-Block, Ford passenger cars had gain a lot of weight. My buddy bought a 1961 Galaxie with a 401 HP 390 and a 4 speed. It walked away from my 56 Ford with a 312 3 speed. On the street, weight, tuning, gearing and the driver are more significant than engine internals.
As our paychecks grew larger, we upgraded to 390s, 406s,427s. When the Cobra Jet came out, my buddy called me and said he had to have one. He bought a gold '69 formal roof Cobra Torino that turned out to be a drag strip terror. It was a light notch back car with nothing but an R-Code 428 and a C6. The first time I rode in it the car barked the tires in 2nd gear drive. I was driving a six month old1968 Fairlane at the time. I Immediately traded in my almost new Fairlane for a new 1969 Fastback Torino Cobra. My fastback Torino had every accessory you could buy, including air conditioning. We ran both cars in pure stock before my buddy turned his into a winning super stocker. My 69 Torino could run 14.6s at 100 MPH in drive with the air conditioner connected and the radio blasting. His light car could almost break into the 13s in pure stock form. Neither of these cars was modified in any way. With better drivers, both cars could have cut a half second off their ETs.
Later I built the fastest street Ford I ever owned. Long story, but it was a gutted super light 1966 Fairlaine ex drag car with a stroker 427 FE side oiler. The engine was built with all NOS parts I got from Danny Williams of top loader fame. John Vermeersch helped me with the engine and sold me the stroker pistons. It had tubs with slicks, a top loader four speed and 4.30 gears. The thing scared the Hell out of me on the street. Muscle car guys came from all over to run my Fairlane. I raced the fastest LS6 scrubelle they made and was so far ahead at the end, I waited for it to catch up.
I have always been a Ford guy. I grew up on a Ford street. My drive a new Explorer now. They're all good.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 3 Years Ago
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Great experiences, thanks for sharing, I hear you loud and clear..........
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