Howards 292002-10 cam


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By ogasman - 4 Years Ago
I have a pretty stock 292 going into a 55 Tbird.  ECZ G heads with a 57 Tbird holley 4 barrel manifold.  Will be getting headers and a 4r70w trans behind it.  Just seeing if anybody has run this cam before.  Listed specs are:

Adv duration 255
.050 duration 220
.463 lift
110 lobe separation
106 intake centerline

Does it sound like a decent cam for a weekend cruiser street car?

Thanks
Paul
By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
Looks good, but I'd think Howard would want his camshaft back by now.
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
I had considered this cam and the same cam/w 112 LSA. I contacted Howard's several times, requesting a cam card, but got no reply. I also posted the request on Summit, but no reply. I'm not likely to purchase products from anyone who refuses to answer simple questions about their products. I ended up buying Schneider Racing's 258F cam. Jerry was very helpful. Ted likes Isky, and Tim McMaster likes Oregon Cams. Someone on VTCI is putting a Clay Smith cam/w 220 degrees duration @ .050 in his F Bird. By the way Howard's Cams was sold years ago. The founder is long gone.
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
Take a look at the ISKY 301444 cam.  I have a 301333 in my Tbird with a manual transmission.  It's a great cam, but it may be a little too bumpy for your taste.

By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
If your car has/will have power brakes, you'll probably want a wider (112) LSA. I would also keep duration @ .050 at/below 220 degrees. The OEM cam, I believe, had 197 degrees @ .050/w 113 LSA. 
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
Correction! The Clay Smith cam that I mentioned earlier is going into an E-code, not an F.
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
Phil, the 301333 is "bumpy?" Even with 228 degrees duration @ .050, I would have thought that the 112 LSA would smooth things out a bit. The guy/w the E-code also had a cam with 228 duration @ .050 before rebuild. I don't recall the LSA, He said he liked the lope, but thought it was too much cam. He wanted the sound but not the manners. I think it's common for people to over-cam street cars. Bigger is not always better. 
By ogasman - 4 Years Ago
I was originally going with a c4 tranny so I put a 3.10 gear in the rear.  The 4r70w has a much lower 1st and 2nd than the c4.  Both have a 1 to 1 third, and the 4r70 has a .70 overdrive.  The bird has a good bit bigger set of rear tires, so I will have to see what it drives like.  May have to put in more gear, I also have a 3.89 gear set.
Will probably go with a dual reservoir power master cylinder.  I have the wilwood 11 inch disc kit up front, and big 11 rear drums.
I don't mind some lope in the cam, put I don't want it to be an undrivable race car with the automatic.

Paul
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
Ogasman, I have a C4/w Dynamic Racing Transmission's wide-ratio gear set/w 2.90 1st and 1.60 2nd. I have 2.72 gears in rear. If I had overdrive, I would have left the stock 3.31 gears. your setup will be fine/w 220 @ .050 duration, but I would prefer 3.55/w OD. My tires are 215/70r15 that are 26.9" diameter. I'm looking at approximately 2200 rpm @ 65 mph. Your cruise rpm should be within cam range; in my case, the latter is 1800-5000 rpm. My knowledge of your transmission is limited, but it probably has a lock-up torque converter, like the AOD. You probably want to stick with stock converter/stock stall speed. I have a Hughes converter/w advertised stall speed of 2000 rpm, but their ratings are based on big-block applications. Actual stall speed behind a Y-block is probably 1600-1800 rpm. With my gears, a higher stall speed could result in slippage if cruise rpm lower than stall speed. For comparison purposes, cruise rpm for Fordomatic and 3.31 gears is 2800-3000 rpm. 2200 is  good. 

There are RPM calculators online, like Strange. You can play with gear ratios, tire size, etc. to find desired combination.
By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
A little over stock 292 with a CruiseOmatic an 8.8 with 2.74 is perfect in my 56 Victoria and it’s heavier. I wouldn’t change anything. Any 3 speed OD or not is a good thing and makes the old FordO cars a pleasure to drive. I did drive it with the 3.31’s for a few months after the trans swap but knew I was going to change it.
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
55blacktie (12/19/2020)
Phil, the 301333 is "bumpy?" Even with 228 degrees duration @ .050, I would have thought that the 112 LSA would smooth things out a bit.

When I chose this cam, I called Isky and they told me the 301333 cam would work with an automatic transmission.  It works great in my car with a manual trans. At this time I am running a Holley 1848-1 465 on a stock iron B intake.  My engine has excellent throttle response and mid range torque. My vacuum at idle is about 12-13 pounds. I don't rev my engine over 5,000 rpm, so I can't comment on high rpm performance.  Choosing a cam is tricky business. I have had street cars with radical cams before. They can grow old quickly.  Some days I feel like I want a race car and other times I wish things were a little smoother.  Better to get it right the first time.  You don't want to change the cam in an early TBird. Hehe

By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
I might be comparing apples and oranges, but my brother-in-law's 5.0 Mustang's cam has 220 degrees duration @ .050/w 110 LSA. His power brakes are marginal at low rpm, specifically when backing out of his driveway. The same came/w 112 LSA probably would have been a better choice as far as vacuum is concerned. Although my cam has a 110 LSA, I don't have power brakes. 

If you're still leaning towards the Howard's cam, the part number for the same cam/w 112 LSA is 292002-12. $203.99 at Summit. 
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
What adapter are you using for 4R70W transmission? Is there sufficient room in transmission tunnel? Electronics/computer?
By ogasman - 4 Years Ago
Long story on the transmission.  About 8 years ago I was thinking about  running a 427 SOHC with a C4.  You can run the same stock Tbird motor mounts on the FE as the y-block.  Everything fit in pretty well, but putting in headers with the stock steering was going to be difficult. 
   This was my dads car.  He bought it from his brother in 1957, and drove it until 1966.  It has sat since then.  I have never been in the car under power, born in 1965.
It was a rust bucket, and not worth restoring.  I bought him a nice 1955 Bird about 10years ago.  He drove it for about 3 years, then started his fight with dementia.  I lost him about 1 1/2 years ago.
  Before he got too bad, he decided he wanted to restore it and give it to my daughter.  We changed plans, and decided to tone it down,  He got to see the finished car, minus the drive train before he passed.  This motor is just a place holder, to mock things up and get things moving.  A mummert headed stroker is in the works. Very delayed due to COVID.
The 4r70w is derived from the C4.  The C4 fit with a ton of extra space.  Not to sure if I will have to massage the trans tunnel for the 4r70w, it is a good bit beefier than the C4.  I am getting a Bendtsen Speed Gems adaptor.  The electronics will be controlled with a Baumann controller.  

Paul


By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
Every year, a 1955 T-bird is entered in our annual downtown car show. There is a SOHC 427 under the hood, but I think the only original part left on the car is the body. Nevertheless, it's quite impressive, especially knowing I'm looking at a $50,000 engine.
By ogasman - 4 Years Ago
I have had the SOHC for over 20 years.  I didn't pay anything near that for it.  I guess it was a good investment.  I should tell my wife, might make up a little bit for what I have spent on the Bird so far.  It really was a rust bucket.  I already have spent twice what it is worth getting it this far.  It is a very early car, #34 built.  I was told the first 100 cars were made per production line, and have a bunch of little differences.

Paul
By panel driver - 4 Years Ago
Just another option for you, i am using a isky 301974 i got from mummert 216 degrees intake and exhaust  at .050.  Lobe center 111degrees. 
installed at 110. Its in a 304 with ecz c heads. I am running power brakes and a aod.  No problem with idle or vacuum to power brakes. 
Good street driver.  Hope this helps. 
By PF Arcand - 4 Years Ago
Is that the Cam Mummert calls the '57 + ?
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
ogasman (12/20/2020)
Long story on the transmission.  About 8 years ago I was thinking about  running a 427 SOHC with a C4.  You can run the same stock Tbird motor mounts on the FE as the y-block.

I have read that you can swap an FE into an early Tbird using the stock YBlock mounts.  I am curious, did you mount the cammer using the YBlock front mount and steady rests or did you fabricate new frame side mounts?
By ogasman - 4 Years Ago
The early Fe equipped pick up trucks used a front mount like the y-block.  To put a wedge FE in the bird you  get the timing cover (iron) and the front mount from an early FE truck.  You can use the bird strut mounts.  Everything lines up, and is a simple bolt in.  It locates the motor in the same place as a y-block.  With the cammer you use the same front truck mount, but you can'y run it with the stock timing chain cover.  I had DOVE cast up a front cover where the lower block section was like the FE truck timing cover.  I knew Jim Dove pretty well, and it was a simple mod to the casting.  I could have machined up an adapter plate for the mount, would not have been too hard.  Just need a level surface to mount the truck front plate to.  Dove had a 57 bird with a 428 FE in it with this mount set up.  It looked like a stock factory install.

Paul
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
Very interesting.  To swap an FE engine into an early bird, you need a truck rear sump oil pan and an early truck front engine mount?  The only big issue is the headers and steering box clearance?  I have seen many different engines swapped into early birds from 289s to big block GMs. Even saw one with a Chrysler Hemi once. If I was ten years younger, an FE swap would be in the works.  As it is, my Y-Block TBird is a nice driver and spirited enough for me now. Thanks for the info.
By panel driver - 4 Years Ago
Yes i looked at my receipt and he lists it as a 57+ cam.  Works really good for me with the AOD. 
Merry Christmas everyone. 
By ogasman - 4 Years Ago
Decided to go with the Isky 30-1444.  Will I have to make the oil groove in the third journal deeper with this cam?  Found out I have a mixed bag of rocker arms in the engine.  Could use a few of the high lift versions, if anybody has a few spares.  I posted an add in the classifieds.  Any way to change the subject line?  Forgot to put wanted to buy.
  If anybody wants to put an FE in their bird, I have the stuff.

Paul
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
I think you meant rocker arms, not lifters.
By ogasman - 4 Years Ago
Thanks
Fixed it.

Paul
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
Ogasman, was the original Fordomatic T-bird shifter retained when the C4 was installed? If so, were you able to shift it manually from first to third/drive? 
By PF Arcand - 4 Years Ago
Ogasman:  J. Mummert re grooves all the Y-block cams he sells. He claims that the blanks are under original spec in that area, but I don't recall seeing anywhere what the spec  is supposed to be..?  Don't over do it, or you will have flood  on your hands..  
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
ogasman (12/26/2020)
Decided to go with the Isky 30-1444.  Will I have to make the oil groove in the third journal deeper with this cam?

When I purchased my ISKY 301333 cam we measured the oil grove depth at .018".   Since Mummert re grooves his cams, we decided to cut our cam to .030".   We used a lathe to deepen the grove. With the engine assembled on the engine stand, I used a socket and a hand crank to turn the oil pump so I could check the oil flow.  The flow to the heads was more than adequate.  Upon full assembly I was somewhat worried that I would have too much oil to the heads.  Previously, I had always closed the oil drain tubes off to pressurize the rocker arms. With the deeper cam grove, I purchased new oil drain tubes and installed them open in the stock location. Upon initial start, I watched the oil flow to the heads and all looked good. With about 3,000 miles on my engine, I have had no oiling issues.

Personally, I believe cutting the cam oil grove deeper is a viable modification.  I'm not sure it's a necessity, especially if you are street driving.  Some members have had to restrict the oil flow as they had too much oil to the heads after cutting the grove. Thankfully, I did not, 

By tbirddragracer - 4 Years Ago
I have a 460 with a C6 in a "57 Bird with the original shifter.
Used side motor mounts and the shifter has an extra detent for the C6.
Blue Thunder aluminum heads and intake manifold make this bird strong.
Ernie
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
tbirddragracer, I would appreciate more info. on how you set up 57 shifter to work with C6. What detent was used, etc. I don't want to use a Mustang C4 shifter. My only other option would be Lokar. If you prefer, you can PM/email. Any photos you have would be helpful. I would think that what works for a C6 should also work for a C4. 

Thanks
By tbirddragracer - 4 Years Ago
I will send you some pictures.
 Ernie
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
Thanks!
By ogasman - 4 Years Ago
Any chance you can post the pictures on this site?  I am still working out the shifter details as well.  Dove said that in his car, he would just bump it up through the range, and could hit all three gears.  When I was thinking about running the C4 behind the Y, I called the guy that runs Flatomatic.  He said if I sent him my shifter, he would see if he could modify the detent in the shifter and offer them as an option with his kits.  Lokar offers a shaft kit for the 4r70w that looks like it will work in the Bird, but still have to modify the shifter.

Paul