Vacuum Advance, port vs. manifold


http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic153890.aspx
Print Topic | Close Window

By Jack Groat - 4 Years Ago
I have a Holley 3x2 set-up and I have a port vacuum outlet on the main Holley.  I can provide either port or pure manifold vacuum to the distributor.

The difference is port vacuum disappears at idle.  You only have vacuum advance at cruise.  I have researched this and cannot find any recommendations.  As an afterthought, I don't see many port vacuum outlets on more modern carburetors.   I am comfortable with manifold vacuum sine that is what I have used on previous engines.

Any opinions??
By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
Holley's website recommends port vacuum, at least for single-carb applications. I don't know that multiple carbs makes a difference.
By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
I have always used port vacuum for the low idle I like. I bought a HEI ignition for Tom Langdon especially made for a different brand in-line engine and he recommended intake vacuum which we have been using. That engine has 3 Holley 2 barrels and it takes a lot of tuning to get it to idle under 850rpm.
By Ted - 4 Years Ago
All the new 4V carbs I purchase come equipped with both direct and ported vacuum outlets.  If you have an older L-O-M distributor, then a carburetor with a spark advance valve is required.  This would include the older three bolt 2V carbs and Holley 4V Teapot carbs unless modified appropriately for the later model distributors.  If you have upgraded to a distributor that uses both mechanical and vacuum advance, then a later model carburetor with a specific ported vacuum signal works with a typical mechanical advance curve.  If going to the trouble of shortening up the amount of advance supplied by the mechanical portion of the distributor, then you may find that using a direct vacuum advance signal works for you.
 
Here’s a past thread on the subject of ported versus direct vacuum to the distributor.
 
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic44648.aspx
By Rusty_S85 - 4 Years Ago
Honestly, If you have a regular mechanical advance distributor with vacuum advance I recommend trying ported and manifold and see what your engine likes.  I have seen some engines prefer manifold over ported and some prefer ported over manifold.  In searching you might come across a questionable kid that I dont agree with on youtube that claims ported vacuum will give you better fuel economy over manifold vacuum but cant explain how when vacuum is vacuum and it only depends on when it comes in.

Ford have used venturi vacuum, ported vacuum and manifold vacuum for vacuum advance.  I prefer using manifold vacuum personally as it provides a smoother idle by giving you more advance at idle.  But the engine I am building for my truck and going with the Holley Sniper Stealth 4150 I will be trying ported vacuum first since its an entirely new engine from my old engine.

You do how ever want to make sure you dont have too much timing, Fords dont typically like more than 35-36 total degrees of advance or they will tend to run hot or knock.  I have my Y block how ever setup at 12* initial but I have the LOM distributor and not sure exactly how much advance it provides but I do know it works up to 25* advance in the quick test I did.  On my truck it is not a Y block so I wont go into too much detail on it outside of the general aspects, I am going to have my distributor recurved by a guy I found in Washington state that has a sunmachine that recurves ford distributors for under $150.  He was in agreeance with me that he will be setting my distributor up to be around 35* total advance vacuum/mechanical based off my engine specs I provided.  Based off how much mechanical advance he uses will determine how much initial I can put in, dont have to worry too much about vacuum as vacuum advance is only advancing under low load conditions which isnt as prone to detonation and goes away with load which is when detonation has a higher chance of happening.  Im hopeful he can set it where I can retain my 12* initial as that seems to be a sweet spot I found out with my Ford V8s.
By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
The very early repair manuals discussed "ported" vacuum source - that is, above the throttle plates, as a method to ensure a smooth steady idle. This predates any sort of smog considerations. Sometimes you'll hear people claim this port business was an EPA requirement foisted on everyone. That isn't really the case.

It is true that after the federal clean air mandates were imposed on the automakers especially by the early 1970s, everyone needed to use a ported connection to have any hope of getting their engines to pass. One concession they made, was a solenoid that would revert to a manifold vacuum connection of the distributor in the event of engine overheating. Very thoughtful of them, since lots of engines were now running on the ragged edge.

A number of strategies were employed, including a reduction in compression ratios, cylinder combustion chamber redesign, EGR, retarding of ignition curves, and camshaft modifications to include "late" valve timing, and very lean fuel mixtures, as well as excessively rich fuel mixtures depending.

What all this tended to do was create a very poorly running, inefficient engine that wasted prodigious amounts of fuel (during both a currency devaluation and an Oil Embargo ..)

You can try to experiment a bit and see what you think. The general rule that seems to hold is factory stock engines are best setup with a "ported" or timed vacuum source. Performance engines, particularly those with radical camshaft (and consequently very low manifold vacuum) may indeed benefit from a fulltime manifold vacuum connection to ensure a streetable engine. Remember, a true drag engine doesn't include vacuum advance - because "part throttle" just isn't part of their vocabulary. Thus, the vacuum advance mechanism itself is just something else to get in the way - and possibly fail - at an inopportune time.

Keep in mind "Total Timing" is also a drag racing term. Again, because vacuum advance doesn't exist in their world.

The 36° or 38° "total timing" we talk about on Y-Blocks isn't counting vacuum advance. This is strictly referring to the initial timing, + the internal distributor mechanical weights and springs. A lot of people get confused on this subject. The vacuum advance is always tuned separately, after the mechanical curve is satisfactory.

When cruising on flat ground 50° BTDC or more is typical with OHV engines. The engine will run cooler and smoother with appropriate ignition timing advance at idle and cruise and everywhere in between.

Another common error is errors when setting the ignition timing. There won't be any vacuum advance at idle in a factory stock engine, provided the RPM is set to factory specification.

Most people like to bump it up a little. For example if I recall Y blocks are factory 450-550 RPM. About 600 to 650 seems to run smoother for most - and if you check with a timing light, it's easy to see why. The vacuum advance, even connected to a "ported" connection, will start to pull in a fair amount of timing just past factory RPM specs. My experience with walking people through this stuff is they would be far better served with learning what is an appropriate timing curve, than worrying about what port to connect to, because without understanding, it doesn't matter what port is used, it won't run right anyway.
By Rusty_S85 - 4 Years Ago
Tedster (11/12/2020)
The very early repair manuals discussed "ported" vacuum source - that is, above the throttle plates, as a method to ensure a smooth steady idle. This predates any sort of smog considerations. Sometimes you'll hear people claim this port business was an EPA requirement foisted on everyone. That isn't really the case.

It is true that after the federal clean air mandates were imposed on the automakers especially by the early 1970s, everyone needed to use a ported connection to have any hope of getting their engines to pass. One concession they made, was a solenoid that would revert to a manifold vacuum connection of the distributor in the event of engine overheating. Very thoughtful of them, since lots of engines were now running on the ragged edge.

A number of strategies were employed, including a reduction in compression ratios, cylinder combustion chamber redesign, EGR, retarding of ignition curves, and camshaft modifications to include "late" valve timing, and very lean fuel mixtures, as well as excessively rich fuel mixtures depending.

What all this tended to do was create a very poorly running, inefficient engine that wasted prodigious amounts of fuel (during both a currency devaluation and an Oil Embargo ..)

You can try to experiment a bit and see what you think. The general rule that seems to hold is factory stock engines are best setup with a "ported" or timed vacuum source. Performance engines, particularly those with radical camshaft (and consequently very low manifold vacuum) may indeed benefit from a fulltime manifold vacuum connection to ensure a streetable engine. Remember, a true drag engine doesn't include vacuum advance - because "part throttle" just isn't part of their vocabulary. Thus, the vacuum advance mechanism itself is just something else to get in the way - and possibly fail - at an inopportune time.

Keep in mind "Total Timing" is also a drag racing term. Again, because vacuum advance doesn't exist in their world.

The 36° or 38° "total timing" we talk about on Y-Blocks isn't counting vacuum advance. This is strictly referring to the initial timing, + the internal distributor mechanical weights and springs. A lot of people get confused on this subject. The vacuum advance is always tuned separately, after the mechanical curve is satisfactory.

When cruising on flat ground 50° BTDC or more is typical with OHV engines. The engine will run cooler and smoother with appropriate ignition timing advance at idle and cruise and everywhere in between.

Another common error is errors when setting the ignition timing. There won't be any vacuum advance at idle in a factory stock engine, provided the RPM is set to factory specification.

Most people like to bump it up a little. For example if I recall Y blocks are factory 450-550 RPM. About 600 to 650 seems to run smoother for most - and if you check with a timing light, it's easy to see why. The vacuum advance, even connected to a "ported" connection, will start to pull in a fair amount of timing just past factory RPM specs. My experience with walking people through this stuff is they would be far better served with learning what is an appropriate timing curve, than worrying about what port to connect to, because without understanding, it doesn't matter what port is used, it won't run right anyway.


Correct, my truck is post emission as well as my Mercury both of which are manifold vacuum but they run through a vacuum switch that is plumbed into the coolant port to remove vacuum advance from the equation when below normal operating temperature.  My Mercury goes one step further in having the hard to find yellow strain relief that has another manifold vacuum line that attaches to what we would call today a map sensor.  This actually when working correctly puts my engine at 14* initial timing at idle to a total of nearly 45* of total timing at idle as the yellow strain relief DSII module is advancing the timing more than the mechanical/vacuum advance would be capable of in low load conditions including idle.  My truck how ever is supposed to be 8* initial mainly to help reduce detonation under load since you will be working a truck even a 1/2 ton truck harder than your standard production car.  Before the emission era most of it was ported vacuum to prevent transition issues when driving from closing the throttle plates too much to try and idle the engine down.  I didnt have this issue with my truck as I had to maintain a slightly higher idle than spec as I have dealer AC installed and there was no stepper solenoid so the extra vacuum advance at idle ontop of the 12* initial timing wasnt too much of a problem.  Im waiting to see just what I will have to do when it comes to my new engine build I am doing since I am turning the engine on its head in a sense from removing emission systems by back dating but then going more advance with better modern heads and fuel injection.

For me when I say total timing it is what the timing under load which would remove vacuum advance as vacuum advance is eliminated during load conditions so you want total timing which is your mechanical advance and your initial advance to add up to with in the 30* range for ford engines Ive seen 34* to 38* listed but I am going with aluminum AFR heads on my truck engine build which has the fast burn heart shaped chambers which I need to back my timing down on the lower side of around 34-35*.  I just hope the guy I will be using doesnt set my dist up to be 35* on mechanical and dont take initial into account cause from the research Ive done on my specific build I want to shoot for around 35* advance under load.  Ideally I would like to keep 12* initial which would limit mechanical advance to be no more than 23* itself.  If he sets it up around 20-21* mechanical that would be better as I know my mercury with its 351W loves 14* initial but I question a higher compression 302 with a OE starter at 14* initial.  I know DSII has the ignition retard on start function which will help.

For my 292 how ever, I have the petronix points delete installed which made my engine run so much better since the distributor probably is in need of a rebuild.  I also have the initial set at 12* initial which seem to be pretty nice, only issue I am having to deal with is the Holley 4000 choke doesnt seem to want to work right in the sense that to set it tight enough to close when cold with one press of the throttle to the floor it would never fully open up.  Got a new NOS choke thermostat and it worked considerably better but car has sat for a bit and now its doing that again.  Going to try and use a brush and carb clean on the linkage and see if I can try and free it up a bit with sticky ethanol blended fuels we have now.  But aside from that and my transmission issue I got my 292 running at almost OE spec, in gear I am at 550 rpm in gear and OE spec in my shop manual is 450 - 500 rpm.  After I do a band adjustment on my transmission if that corrects my issue I want to try and idle my 292 down to OE spec a bit more if possible.

I agree, its better to have a proper timing curve than worrying about ported vs manifold.  I have always told people to see what their engine likes best and throw that "ported is proper" nonsense out the window.  That may work with a 100% bone stock all original brand new engine but once you wear the engine in it doesnt always work that way.  Like my truck I tried switching to ported vacuum and I could not get the truck to idle and ive had this one kid try to tell me I need to add more timing to offset the reduction in total timing at idle with manifold vacuum or some nonsense like that.  I tried telling him that I have my timing set at 12* initial and 14* initial has starter drag on hot restarts I cant advance it anymore.  Then he tried to tell me the carb isnt set right but yet my truck with manifold vacuum idled dead smooth with AC on at 600 rpm in gear.  if the carb wasnt set right I dont believe you would have that low of a idle speed with the load of an AC compressor such as a York in gear and be dead smooth.  Only carb issue I had with my truck which will be gone now with my new planned engine build was the accelerator pump, I had to bump it up to the largest squirt size on the 2150 autolite carb to remove a stumble on tip in of the throttle.  It actually corrected it 99% of the way there was just a slight tip in problem.  I could probably work on it and get it better but its not worth it when I parked the truck 3 years ago and started planning and working on a new engine build from the ground up after the OE balancer broke apart and egg shaped the crank snout.  With the Sniper Fuel Injection they have a ignition port for vacuum but it is ported vacuum and I plan on using that as a start and see how my new package works and see what the dyno guy I will be using for tuning the FI and see what he thinks.

On that note I really wish someone like holley would make more retro carb like FI systems I would seriously consider a FI setup for my 292 if it looked just like a Holley 4000 carb.
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
There is a lot to learn and digest on this subject. Ted's previous explanations of the vacuum advance system helped me.  Like many, I didn't understand it's purpose.  The key is experimentation.  Not all engines are the same.  Not all driver's are the same either.  I tried everything on my engine until I found what worked best for me and my car.  My TBird engine has a stock 1957 Ford distributor with a Pertronix unit and lighter advance springs.  My vacuum advance is connected to the primary side of my single Holley carb. I run 36 degrees advance with the vacuum line disconnected.  It starts, idles and runs great.


By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
It really is an ingenious system, I'm not sure who actually invented it. Kettering, I guess. Utilizing engine vacuum as a signal is used for many different automotive functions.

In the case of ignition advance, they had to figure something out because centrifugal weights and springs (RPM based) alone can not provide anywhere close to enough timing advance under low load, part throttle conditions.

In experimenting a little bit with a direct connection to manifold vacuum it ran fine, but I had trouble with getting a perfectly steady idle, something mentioned in the early manuals as the reason for the distributor port in the first place.

This is getting off into the weeds here, but what I don't understand is why the engineers were forced to basically cripple 70s era engines with all kinds of performance and economy robbing measures simply in order to reduce NOX emissions, but modern engines can run the typical timing advance curves. Better catalysts in the exhaust than back then? I don't know.
By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
This is getting off into the weeds here, but what I don't understand is why the engineers were forced to basically cripple 70s era engines with all kinds of performance and economy robbing measures simply in order to reduce NOX emissions, but modern engines can run the typical timing advance curves. Better catalysts in the exhaust than back then? I don't know.


The reason(s) being FEDERAL and STATE(S) EMISSION  LAWS.
Emmission System(s) then were mechanical. Modern day is computer controlled.
By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
KULTULZ (11/13/2020)
This is getting off into the weeds here, but what I don't understand is why the engineers were forced to basically cripple 70s era engines with all kinds of performance and economy robbing measures simply in order to reduce NOX emissions, but modern engines can run the typical timing advance curves. Better catalysts in the exhaust than back then? I don't know.


The reason(s) being FEDERAL and STATE(S) EMISSION  LAWS.
Emmission System(s) then were mechanical. Modern day is computer controlled.




You're right, modern engines of course are computer controlled. But that isn't the question. The gasoline, after all, has no way of knowing any of this.

The characteristic of NOX emissions in particular, which spike (relative to HC and CO) when the engine tuning and air fuel ratios are optomized for power and economy is well known, this is what the early smog regulations were designed to address. They basically crippled the motors with compression reductions, late valve timing - and lots of ignition timing jiggery-pokery.

Modern EFI especially means engines can run very lean air fuel mixtures, far leaner than any carbureted engine, I get that, but I'm still curious how they were able to reduce NOX emissions to acceptable levels, the kind and amount of pollutants is a basic characteristic of fuel combustion, regardless of how it gets there.

They don't need to retard the ignition timing anymore, they have reasonable compression. They can run maybe 18-1 AFR on the highway. This should make the NOX worse, not better. See where I'm going with that? Again, I figure it must be in large part due to better catalysts.

It would be interesting to see what the engineers thought back then trying to meet all the federal clean air rules. The basically traded power and economy to reduce NOX, and then burned all the wasted fuel in the tailpipe in the catalyst. Not the most elegant solution.
By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
Actually, excessive NOX is as a result of a too lean mixture and/or calibration(s) out of sync -
- https://www.smogtips.com/failed-high-NO-nitric-oxide.cfm
By charliemccraney - 4 Years Ago
It's probably just aggregate improvements over the past 40 years or so.  Fuel management, as well as the overall engine, drivetrain and body design has improved.  Lot's of small changes over time result in big changes.
By Rusty_S85 - 4 Years Ago
Tedster (11/13/2020)
KULTULZ (11/13/2020)
This is getting off into the weeds here, but what I don't understand is why the engineers were forced to basically cripple 70s era engines with all kinds of performance and economy robbing measures simply in order to reduce NOX emissions, but modern engines can run the typical timing advance curves. Better catalysts in the exhaust than back then? I don't know.


The reason(s) being FEDERAL and STATE(S) EMISSION  LAWS.
Emmission System(s) then were mechanical. Modern day is computer controlled.


You're right, modern engines of course are computer controlled. But that isn't the question. The gasoline, after all, has no way of knowing any of this.

The characteristic of NOX emissions in particular, which spike (relative to HC and CO) when the engine tuning and air fuel ratios are optomized for power and economy is well known, this is what the early smog regulations were designed to address. They basically crippled the motors with compression reductions, late valve timing - and lots of ignition timing jiggery-pokery.

Modern EFI especially means engines can run very lean air fuel mixtures, far leaner than any carbureted engine, I get that, but I'm still curious how they were able to reduce NOX emissions to acceptable levels, the kind and amount of pollutants is a basic characteristic of fuel combustion, regardless of how it gets there.

They don't need to retard the ignition timing anymore, they have reasonable compression. They can run maybe 18-1 AFR on the highway. This should make the NOX worse, not better. See where I'm going with that? Again, I figure it must be in large part due to better catalysts.

It would be interesting to see what the engineers thought back then trying to meet all the federal clean air rules. The basically traded power and economy to reduce NOX, and then burned all the wasted fuel in the tailpipe in the catalyst. Not the most elegant solution.


Nox is formed when you introduce high heat and unburned fuel listed as HC.  So when you pump exhaust back into the engine via EGR systems it reduces cylinder temperature as well as reducing the amount of air/fuel which helps lower the production of Nox.  In modern cars there are some converters that actually combat Nox as well which is why many cars dont even have EGR valves now a days.

I have read that in some instances you can get a an egr effect with reversion with some cam designs which is quite interesting but for me I just got a plain old truck/tow cam from Crane in roller form with specs of 216*/224* @ 0.050" lift 112* lobe separation 107* intake center line and .520"/.542" lift.  Its more of an efficient setup and not so much focused on emission reduction.  I cant focus on emission reduction as Holley strongly stresses to not use emission systems with their EFI setup which is EGR, and catalytic converters.  So I am deleting my air injection pump, converters were gone long ago, egr will be gone which is why I am having the distributor recurved as it was curved for a emission era engine.  Only emission systems I will retain is my evap mainly to reduce raw fuel smell from my fuel tank and the PCV system.  As far as emissions goes I would be interested to do a snifer test on my truck once I am finished cause being that its fuel injected now the reduction in unburned fuel in theory should reduce the amount of Nox formed even with higher compression.  It is from my emission classes I took for work years ago that taught us that older high performance cars didnt produce as much Nox as they were high compression and had a more complete fuel burn.  The lower level of HC resulted in less Nox being formed, so with this in mind the FI setup should create lower Nox production due to a more efficient fuel delivery system even though its a TBI setup and not true MPI.

But that is why emission era engines can benefit from gutting emission systems and a big reason why I am doing that to my truck as the small block ford is just gimped too badly to the point it just doesnt feel that powerful.
By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
Quotes From The Referring URL In My First Post -

1. Lean Fuel Mixture - Lean fuel mixtures cause high NOx. A lean fuel mixture exists when less fuel then required is delivered to the combustion chambers or when more air then necessary is added to the fuel. In either case the lack of gasoline needed to cool the combustion chambers down is not present. Combustion temperatures increase causing high nitric oxide emissions. A lean fuel condition may be due to a vacuum leak/s and/or defective fuel control components, such as the Air Flow Meter, Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor, and O2 sensors.


5. Engine Overheating - Inadequate engine cooling can will high NOx. If your vehicle's cooling system is not working efficiently, (i.e. bad radiator, thermostat, hoses) high NOx will be created. Remember high NOx nitric oxide is created when an engine's combustion chamber temperatures reach over 2500F. You will want to make sure your vehicle's cooling system is working properly, and your vehicle's temperature gauge is always indicating normal.


Too fat of a fuel curve will create excess HC and most likely overheat the CAT(S) and burn them.  

You say HOLLEY? Is it the SNIPER?


By Rusty_S85 - 4 Years Ago
KULTULZ (11/13/2020)
Quotes From The Referring URL In My First Post -

1. Lean Fuel Mixture - Lean fuel mixtures cause high NOx. A lean fuel mixture exists when less fuel then required is delivered to the combustion chambers or when more air then necessary is added to the fuel. In either case the lack of gasoline needed to cool the combustion chambers down is not present. Combustion temperatures increase causing high nitric oxide emissions. A lean fuel condition may be due to a vacuum leak/s and/or defective fuel control components, such as the Air Flow Meter, Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor, and O2 sensors.


5. Engine Overheating - Inadequate engine cooling can will high NOx. If your vehicle's cooling system is not working efficiently, (i.e. bad radiator, thermostat, hoses) high NOx will be created. Remember high NOx nitric oxide is created when an engine's combustion chamber temperatures reach over 2500F. You will want to make sure your vehicle's cooling system is working properly, and your vehicle's temperature gauge is always indicating normal.


Too fat of a fuel curve will create excess HC and most likely overheat the CAT(S) and burn them.  

You say HOLLEY? Is it the SNIPER?




See they are simplifying their whole "lean fuel mixture".  Lean fuel mixture will create higher combustion chamber temperatures and higher temperatures in the cylinders help to create Nox.  Even running a lean mixture there will still always be some unburned fuel in the cylinders.  A rich fuel mixture actually results in a cooler combustion chamber which is why I personally am going with the Holley fuel injection on my truck as I can have my fuel map set to go rich when under load which will reduce cylinder temperature and help prevent detonation.  A rich fuel mixture can help prevent Nox forming due to reducing combustion chamber temperatures but who would want to get worse gas mileage to offset the formation of Nox.  Thats where the EGR comes into play as it takes up cylinder space resulting in unburned HC being pulled back into the engine to give them a second time to burn and you are now squeezing less air/fuel into the cylinders reducing the temperature of said combustion chamber helping greatly to prevent the formation of Nox.

Like wise too rich will burn out your converters by making them run too hot.  You will know this is happening as you will have a rich sulfur smell which is the converters overheating.

Yep the setup I got for my truck is the Sniper, but I got the Stealth 4150 that looks like a holley 4150 dual feed carb.  I went with this one in the traditional gold finish as it was the only offering Holley has that comes with the ford kickdown to retain my C6 kick down rod without having to convert to a cable.  These units are great and Ive personally installed 7 of them at work in the last 3 years and the options that you can make this do is amazing as well.  I can set up idle speed to not just idle up when cold and idle down as engine warms up but I can also do like ford did with their temperature switch for vacuum advance to switch between manifold and ported at 225*F to idle the engine up to help cool the engine down by spinning the fan faster.  I can have the sniper do this as well.  Like wise I can wire in my A/C so the IAC will idle the engine up to a new idle speed setting when the AC is switched on and I can also program a TPS percent where the sniper can also cut the AC compressor circuit at wide open throttle like a late model car.  All of these features I will be using on my truck to get the most out of it, I am also going to invest in the AN flaring turret for my Eastwood flaring tool I have as I am thinking about pulling the entire 5/16" OE carb fuel line off my frame and running a new stainless steel 3/8" OE style fuel line and chop it up and AN flare it for my FI setup.  I can also use this to form a metal hard line from the simulated 4150 carb down to where the mechanical fuel pump would be and then use a small short piece of push lock hose to connect frame to engine.  More work but would help reduce the amount of rubber hose in the end.

Its why I wish Holley would make more retro looking FI setups, if they offered a Holley 4000 style FI setup I would seriously consider it for my Fairlane just because of the functionality of unit and the best part is no float issues with this ethanol blended fuels.
By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
You really do not have to worry about being EMISSIONS COMPLIANT with just a CFI FUEL SYSTEM do you?
By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
Here is a basic tutorial describing timing advance -
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/set-ignition-curves-create-optimal-performance/
By Rusty_S85 - 4 Years Ago
KULTULZ (11/14/2020)
You really do not have to worry about being EMISSIONS COMPLIANT with just a CFI FUEL SYSTEM do you?


Here in Texas like most states except for california once a vehicle hits 25 years old, such as my F150 which is a emission era truck but its over 25 years old you dont under go emission testing as its just a safety only inspection but by law your emission systems have to visually be there but they are not tested for functionality.  Most people doing state inspections today werent around when these vehicles were new so they wont know what has and hasnt been gutted and majority of the time they just pop the hood do a quick look and move along and dont act crazy about having systems on the vehicle.

States like California how ever they do emission testing back as far as 1975 I believe it is last time I checked unless they changed that.

Thats why for my truck I am gutting all emission systems as they do nothing but hinder the efficiency of the engine and lets face it in the grand scheme of things my single truck being driven daily racking up some 6,000 - 10,000 miles a year is not going to put out polution in any kind of level to have any real negative impact.  Its why most states do do emission testing on old vehicles as the first thing is there are so few 25+ year old vehicles still on the road and the second thing is they dont drive as many miles in a given year compared to a newer vehicle.

But to ensure I dont run into any issues with some inspector that wants to be a stickler for the rules, I am trying to make my truck look as OE as possible.  Im even going so far as working on a reproduction emission decal for my truck in Photoshop to put on the new hood latch panel I have to reflect the changes to my truck.  Firing order is different, spark plug number is different, and vacuum hose routing is different as well and I figured since I am making these changes to reflect my truck to help some mechanic in the off chance I ever do let someone else work on it I figured I will omit emission systems I no longer have.  I know many have told me its illegal to do that but I think the legality aspect comes in for getting around emission testing which I am not as I dont have to under go emission testing.
By KULTULZ - 4 Years Ago
But to ensure I dont run into any issues with some inspector that wants to be a stickler for the rules, I am trying to make my truck look as OE as possible.


OK, I understand now.