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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Is anyone using Powermaster's PowerGen? Recommendations?
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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If you have an idiot light and want to keep it order the one that comes with that feature.
I looked into them but decided that since the mount was down so low most wouldn’t see an alternator I bought the set up from CASCO for a T-Bird and made some bushings to make it work on the car. It is painted black and hardly noticeable. Good luck...
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By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
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The Casco alternator conversion kit is the way to go. Idiot light works. No complaints.
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By Carefree Charlie - 4 Years Ago
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I have one. I have used it. But I would not buy another unless I was really concerned about how things looked - that is, it is important for the alternator to look like the original generator.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Charlie, unhappy with price or performance?
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By slumlord444 - 4 Years Ago
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I've been running one for a few years. Works fine; Looks right. A little pricey but worth it to me because I try to keep my T Bird looking original even though a lot of things aren't orginal.
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By cokefirst - 4 Years Ago
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To each his own. I have one on my 31 Model A AA, my 57 Skyliner, and two of my Thunderbirds. I plan on putting one on mu 56 F100 BBW that I am doing a frame up on. I LOVE mine. Are they expensive? YEAH!! But I like my 50's cars to look like 50's cars and this is the way to go. I even use the original voltage regulator as a terminal box so it looks like it is totally stock.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Cokefirst, that's what I have in mind, thanks.
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By Cliff - 4 Years Ago
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Why is an alternator needed? what's wrong with a generator?
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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If your car is, and will remain, 100% original, and your generator light does not come on at low rpm, probably nothing.
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By Cliff - 4 Years Ago
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The generator light will always come on at low RPM.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Exactly.
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By Carefree Charlie - 4 Years Ago
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It works fine and after 3 years and about 15K miles I have had no problem or concern with it.
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By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
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Cliff (11/2/2020)
Why is an alternator needed? what's wrong with a generator?
I think what anyone "needs" can be expanded, if you think about it - after all nobody "needs" a 75 year old car or truck, do they? I kept the generator on my truck because they work, and that's what it came with in 1964. For my part, I would probably not install a generator if it already had an alternator, but in the same vein I would not convert a 6 volt car or truck to 12 volts, I like to see some of the old technology up close and if it worked for them, I can probably make it work for me. But (surprise!) alternators replaced generators for some good reasons. Modern accessories and current hungry devices can't be used with a 30 ampere system. Air conditioning, for example. And generators are a maintenance item. They are reliable, but they need periodic maintenance and servicing. Not everyone wants to do that. In fact hardly anyone. That may be one reason why they have such "bad luck" with generators. They will fail spectacularly at some point without periodic attention. There is a learning curve to their Mysteries, and people's eyes glaze over. They want to drive their collector car or truck, not wrench on it by the side of the road. Them electrons is "Here There Be Dragons" stuff to a lot of folks.
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By PF Arcand - 4 Years Ago
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Further re Generator's. If your collector car isn't driven fairly regularly, for instance mine isn't during winter months, keeping the battery up with a generator can be a problem. According to my local Battery shop, batteries don't like to be charged up & then let go down low repeatedly. It can lead to problems. They recommend using a "maintainer" in winter storage. The basic ones are not expensive & keep a low charge on the battery, preventing cycling up & down. It seems to work fine..
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By FORD DEARBORN - 4 Years Ago
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I agree with Tedster, if it worked in the day, it can work today and it will. I love motors and generators, it was my occupation as related to heavy industry. But, I installed a Ford alternator on my 64 F100, it works perfect and installed it in such a way as to make it look like it belongs there. I did it because it became very annoying to have all the lights, accessories etc. quiet down, dim down, slow down when ever the engine was at idle. I wasn't sure how modern components would like the voltage swings, like an MSD box or a wide- band O2 monitor for carb tuning and as mentioned above, an alternator will be necessary for A.C in the future. As a second choice I would have installed a Power Gen mainly for the generator looks. However, nobody knows the Ford G1 alternator didn't come from the factory that way. Except, of course, all the folks on this excellent forum know better.
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By Lord Gaga - 4 Years Ago
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Right on Tedster!
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By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
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I've always (well maybe not always) thought that pattern recognition is an important part about being a good mechanic, a good troubleshooter. Modern vehicles are incredibly complex and sophisticated, and I certainly don't envy folks that have to work on them. But, if you've ever pored over vintage shop manuals, owner's manuals, repair manuals going back to the earliest days it becomes obvious that the exact same principles are at work. Compression. Ignition. Fuel. Having a solid background of knowledge and understanding of the basics is invaluable when trying to troubleshoot more complex systems. What I'm getting at is a modern mechanic who has been mostly trained to simply scan for trouble codes and throw parts at it (it's remarkably easy to spend other people's cash) would improve diagnostic skills by reading those ancient Motors Repair and Ford newsletters and the rest of it. The modern stuff has the exact same issues and responds exactly the same way, with a huge overlay of bells and whistles.
One major difference between alternators and generators is the Cutout. To prevent backfeed, once the charging voltage drops below spec the entire electrical system is supported solely by the battery. This is why a heater fan would slow down. A physically large battery with a lot of reserve capacity is necessary, or the battery will tend to get smoked. Most people concern themselves only with high CCA, but there is no free lunch. I have not had any problem issues with a a Pertronix Ignitor and a generator whatsoever for many years, and the wideband O2 sensor works excellent.
People tend to be both unrealistic and misinformed about older technology. To hear them put it, back in the day everyone was driving millions of miles annually at night nearly blind with dim, yellow headlights, drum brakes that didn't work, batteries that never charged, and stranded by the side of the road constantly due to those points and condensers.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 4 Years Ago
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The only real problem was missing a turn-off from a dark road one night. I'm no youngster and need all the visual help I can get. Some time later, I was almost rear ended by someone who didn't notice a big red/white truck approaching a stop sign. (Cell phone maybe?) That's when it became apparent the dim yellow lights needed to be up graded , therefor, a rock solid electrical system was the first item on the list. I guess my point with all this is: Some things are truly necessary and are easy/inexpensive to do as opposed to just nice to have. Retro LED technology for our classic vehicles was almost unheard of 10 years ago. Aside from all this, you are spot on when it comes to maintaining generators & regulators.. Not many want to bother with it along with a lot of other related things.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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I think we've considerably strayed from my original post. My goal is to make my 1955 Thunderbird, which I inherited from my father, a better, safer, more dependable driver, which includes adding seat belts, front disc brakes, electric wipers, manual heater valve, Aurora radio conversion, quartz clock conversion, radial tires, and 12v. I believe all of these things will make it a better car, without anyone's mistaking it for anything other than a 1955 Ford Thunderbird. Let's move on.
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By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
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FORD DEARBORN (11/7/2020)
The only real problem was missing a turn-off from a dark road one night. I'm no youngster and need all the visual help I can get. Some time later, I was almost rear ended by someone who didn't notice a big red/white truck approaching a stop sign. (Cell phone maybe?) That's when it became apparent the dim yellow lights needed to be up graded , therefor, a rock solid electrical system was the first item on the list. I guess my point with all this is: Some things are truly necessary and are easy/inexpensive to do as opposed to just nice to have. Retro LED technology for our classic vehicles was almost unheard of 10 years ago. Aside from all this, you are spot on when it comes to maintaining generators & regulators.. Not many want to bother with it along with a lot of other related things.
This is my point, though. They obviously weren't driving around with dim, yellow lights back in the day. Headlights have improved greatly since then, no question about that. Maybe too well, even. But a properly adjusted and maintained generator equipped electrical system is perfectly adequate. If it isn't, that means there is a defect. My night vision isn't what it used to be either.
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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I changed my lamps to halogen right after I bought our 56 8 years ago, both front and rear. Up until a month ago I had a generator and for me everything has been great. I could tell the difference right away as I go to a gathering in the dark every Saturday morning. The reflection of the tail and brake lights in a store front I back up to shows me vehicles behind can see me. A alternator has been added since I’m going to AC after the new year. I’m not sure about the load on the original interior wiring. I will check with my sons DC clamp-on before and after.
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By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
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Halogen lamp draw (compared to Tungsten) is well within the design margin of the wiring, the problem is they won't be any brighter if they are starved for voltage/current. This is probably the first thing people try. Ask me how I know.
They might even be less bright in that situation, not sure on that, but the Lumens output of low voltage high current bulbs drops very quickly with even with a slight voltage drop.
One factor that may play a role in this, if you study the voltage regulator set point chart they are different numbers between generators and alternators, maybe due to the more "choppy" waveform of a generator versus diodes. A generator should read significantly higher. And they also used analog measurement devices when they derived these numbers. Modern digital multimeters don't always play well with generators.
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By Rusty_S85 - 4 Years Ago
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I havent used them, thought about it but at the time they didnt offer the charge light wire but now they do. Still though they are a one wire setup and I do not like that as I have had vehicles at work that with one wire alternators wont start charging till they hit some 2,000 rpms in some instances. I wish they or someone else would offer something like this but maintain the external regulator. Ford used external regulators all the way up to 1985 I believe it was with their 1G alternator with no problems. My '78 Mercury still sports the original regulator as well as my '82 F150, but yet people like the man at Gen-erator I think is the name of his company that charges some $800 to build an alternator into your generator case swears up and down external regulators are junk and wont last even though the external on my '56 is still going strong but needs to be adjusted and I cant find the proper tools to set it properly accordingly to the owners manual.
With that said, I dont believe you need to switch to an alternator if you are running a stock setup. If you start adding a bunch of aftermarket systems that are electrical heavy then I would strongly suggest upgrading to an alternator. Me only reason I wanted to go with the alternator is I dont drive my '56 a whole lot but I do try to run the car to keep the battery charged and generators just dont work too good charging at idle. But once I start driving the car more then the alternator isnt really a issue for me.
On the Halogen aspect, they are supposed to last longer than conventional bulbs but I personally dont believe I have seen that case, my '63 has the original T3 bulbs that still work and my '56 has bulbs that are pre 1980 that still work as well, so I dont know if I buy into the whole halogen bulbs last longer. But I do wish that they would offer reproduction headlights like for the '56 Ford with the "FoMoCo" script in the correct non halogen style. I feel they dont do this cause they are afraid of people passing them off as NOS ones when all they would have to do is have it marked on the back side of the housing that its not an original. Or if they are going to offer the halogen style then why dont they offer them in a composite design so at least we wouldnt have to spend hundreds of dollars when it comes time to replace bulbs. As far as charging goes, you wouldnt have to go with a higher output for that, I converted my '82 F150 to ECE Hella composite housings and run Sylvania silverstar ultras with the OE 1G alterator. I also have a CB, CB Amp, and a pair of Apollo 6" 100w halogen driving lights from KC all on the stock 65A alternator. If I can run all this on a stock 65A alternator you can run perfectly fine halogen headlight bulbs with a stock 55A generator. Biggest problem you will see how ever as been mention before is aged wiring. I noticed this on my '63 where lights were dimmer due to aged wiring and why people should really consider replacing wiring in their cars especially if they are over 40 years old.
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By Rusty_S85 - 4 Years Ago
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55blacktie (11/2/2020)
If your car is, and will remain, 100% original, and your generator light does not come on at low rpm, probably nothing.
Why I need to find the proper tools to adjust my regulator cause some days my generator light wont come on at full idle in drive and other times the light will lightly come on at idle or to half brightness. I would like to adjust the regulator first before I go tossing it and putting a new regulator on.
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By Tedster - 4 Years Ago
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Voltage regulators should not ordinarily require much adjustment, it's my understanding (I wasn't around) that they were often shipped from the manufacturer in tamper proof boxes and such, and the cutout, voltage and current set point were set to spec. If the regulator had been opened - Warranty was voided.
I don't know that I've heard anything good about the modern replacements though. NOS or good serviceable used regulators are recommended. When there was a motor shop in town I could bring the generator and regulator in and they would run them together in a test jig and check for correct cutout and the rest of it.
Adjustment is tricky, it ain't rocket science but there are certain very specific procedures outlined in the manual. Analog voltmeter, and ammeter capable of at least 30 amperes is part of the toolkit. The voltage regulation changes when the cover is re-installed. It is anti-magnetic or shielding the relays. Keep in mind the charging voltage set point adjustment is temperature dependent. If the current output is too high the armature will start slinging solder, if the voltage is too high it will boil out the battery.
Again as you can see, only curmudgeons mess around with this stuff, generally nobody usually wants to read the manual, just get in there with their Golden Screwdriver and eyeball it or whatever. One old timer wrote in an article, he said they had 25 mechanics or something like that at his dealership, and claimed they only ever let just 2 certain guys work on customer cars that needed voltage regulator work or servicing. I thought that was telling.
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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I learned to adjust them from an older gentleman mechanic when I worked the battery line a Sears when I was in JC in the mid 60’s. It was not the practice to do it and if the cover was riveted we didn’t.
We had a drawer with some 600 wet or dry and would draw thru a folded sliver of the paper to clean the contacts. Only the spring connector was moved or bent for adjustment. We held the cover on by hand when checking output. As the reading was off with no cover. It isn’t a “black art” but close to it as it took very little to make one right.
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By Rusty_S85 - 4 Years Ago
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Tedster (11/8/2020)
Voltage regulators should not ordinarily require much adjustment, it's my understanding (I wasn't around) that they were often shipped from the manufacturer in tamper proof boxes and such, and the cutout, voltage and current set point were set to spec. If the regulator had been opened - Warranty was voided. I don't know that I've heard anything good about the modern replacements though. NOS or good serviceable used regulators are recommended. When there was a motor shop in town I could bring the generator and regulator in and they would run them together in a test jig and check for correct cutout and the rest of it. Adjustment is tricky, it ain't rocket science but there are certain very specific procedures outlined in the manual. Analog voltmeter, and ammeter capable of at least 30 amperes is part of the toolkit. The voltage regulation changes when the cover is re-installed. It is anti-magnetic or shielding the relays. Keep in mind the charging voltage set point adjustment is temperature dependent. If the current output is too high the armature will start slinging solder, if the voltage is too high it will boil out the battery. Again as you can see, only curmudgeons mess around with this stuff, generally nobody usually wants to read the manual, just get in there with their Golden Screwdriver and eyeball it or whatever. One old timer wrote in an article, he said they had 25 mechanics or something like that at his dealership, and claimed they only ever let just 2 certain guys work on customer cars that needed voltage regulator work or servicing. I thought that was telling.
My original unit wasnt a riveted sealed unit it is a screwed down cover and one of the tools that I cant locate is its a spring loaded thermometer that you clip to the regulator cover while its still bolted on to read the temperature of the unit itself then you go by the chart in the factory shop manual for what amperage and voltage it should be set to at that specific temperature. I got a modern volt and amp gauge that I can use but I wouldnt want to trust using a more modern laser thermometer that may not read the same way the one they used for setting the points. From the shop manuals I have it appears ford used regulators well into the 60`s that didnt have riveted housings. Not part of the regular adjustment to be placed in the owners manual but a regulator that is over 50 years old it probably needs to be adjusted by now.
As far as NOS goes, I prefer NOS units where possible but some times they are hard to find. Took me 2 months to find a reasonably priced NOS Holley 4000 choke thermostat, everyone else on ebay wanted over $200 for them at the time which is insane.
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