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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Who makes the best water pump for the Y? I was prepared to buy a Casco pump, but someone I know said that his Tbird actually ran hotter with the Casco pump. His conclusion was the Casco circulated the coolant too quickly, not giving it sufficient time for the radiator to cool it. He re-installed a stock pump. He has no cooling problems with stock radiator and electric puller fan. His car is air-conditioned, and he lives in the California Central Valley, where we have hot summers. He did not say if he has the smaller water pump pulley.
I had a good experience with an Edelbrock aluminum water pump on my 5.0 Mustang. John Mummert no longer offers the Edelbrock water pump for the Y. I've read mixed reviews for Flowkooler. I want to stay away from rebuilt pumps.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 4 Years Ago
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I would have to know a lot more about the car and its cooling equipment before I would believe the higher flow CASCO pump netted a temp increase. Not very likely.
If your bird is still using the 1 inch water pump spacer - that kills pumping efficiency - and you should be thinking about how you are going to dress the front of your finished street engine. The spacer is a factory feature of T-bird engines - that doesn't work so well. Ted has often repeated the best advice for the 'birds - is to get rid of the pump spacer and add 1" to the fan front spacer. This will maintain the fan's position in the shroud. When you do this you are simply making the engine front dress like the sedan versions of the Y. They have much better cooling than the T-bird in stock configuration - not perfect but better. Spinning the pump impellor in a huge open cavity was not one of Ford's "better ideas".
Equip your engine with a thermostat that will flow plenty of water. There are replacements that have little one inch diameter chebby sized poppets - and that isn't what you want. One for a big Chrysler 440 is more like it. You are looking for something with a 1.50 diameter poppet.
Consider getting a smaller pulley and a matching belt to up the fan and pump speed. When the engine is running at idle and the t-stat is just opening - you should be able to look down the open radiator cap opening and see that water is moving right along. I built a 289 Cougar several years ago - and the same observation on it would show water screaming into the upper radiator tank - at the same idle speed. At higher engine speeds, I can image that many gallons a minute were being sent into the radiator.
T-birds came with a stock three blade fan - surely that has been changed out on yours - but find a six blade and get the air speed up. Easy modification that works right away. Get a matching diameter - the clearance between the blade OD and the shroud is an efficiency issue.
There is a lot to know about the t-bird's cooling system and the pump is not the only issue.
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By charliemccraney - 4 Years Ago
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Here are some options. Probably made in China and probably all that's available new at the moment. I have not used one myself.
https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/water-pumps-mechanical/make/ford/engine-size/4-8l-292/engine-family/ford-y-block?N=part-type%3Awater-pumps-mechanical&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=water%20pump
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Thank you, but I already knew everything in your post. I just asked who makes the best pump. The Casco pump was not on my car. I've talked to Ted about the Tbird wp spacer, removing the spacer and using a longer fan spacer, thermostats, smaller pulleys, multi-row copper and brass radiators, aluminum radiators, puller electric fans, pusher electric fans, fan clutches, multiple-blade mechanical fans, thermostats, timing. I've done my homework. Pump recommendations?
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By GREENBIRD56 - 4 Years Ago
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With the engine equipped right - even the stock replacement pumps work fine with new seals. Don't spend too much! My outfit has the same pump the original owner put in, runs a 7 blade fan at 115% and other sensible flow stuff - cools fine. More pump flow turned out to be the key issue.
If I have to do more - I'd get an aluminum radiator with a better core. There have been some made with a factory looking tank that were attractive (not all square edged).
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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Sorry, Greenbird 56. I know you're just trying to help. There is no way you could no how much/little I know about the subject.
I considered eliminating the pump spacer and using a longer pulley spacer, but there's potential for accelerated pump wear/failure by doing so. After receiving a few recommendations, I discussed the issue, in depth, with Chris Ames of Paragon Industries. I ended up buying his spacer, but I don't intend to install it until the engine is rebuilt.
As far as overheating is concerned, I think each car, to a degree, is different. How thin are the cylinder walls, deck, and heads. Compression? Timing? Rust build-up, casting flash, how and where the car is driven, etc. Some owners experience no overheating issues, using stock components. Some have tried everything imaginable and still have overheating issues. I hope to get it right by choosing the right pump. Thanks, again.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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A lot of this stuff is not set in stone, and some simply doesn't work. It's kind of like arguing about which motor oil is best. I would rather not spend money on something I don't need or isn't proven.
My 4-row copper & brass radiator is still in the box. At the time I bought it, I was lead to believe that copper & brass radiators are more efficient than aluminum radiators. Aluminum radiators could not be re-cored, and they did not look like an OEM radiator. They were/are cheaper, and and now available in an OEM-style. Sometimes you just have to pull the trigger and hope for the best.
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By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
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I have a 4 row copper/brass in my 56 Victoria and wouldn't think of using anything else. As for air movement I'm currently using a 6 blade but Prestige Thunderbird in Santa Fe Springs Ca. shows a 7 blade. I don't have the same problems cooling as some of the birds but Greenbirds ideas have sure saved me. Passenger cars did not have a shroud; mounting the fan about 3/4-1" away from the radiator body back when they were new and now I feel it's a necessity. If we could just go back to 1956 gasoline I'll bet we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just a guess.
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By Vic Correnti - 4 Years Ago
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Greenbird is right on.
I had the heating woes years ago. Tried 3 and 4 core different pumps, Ford originals and many rebuilts, 3 and 4 core radiators 6 blade fans different thermostats, no thermostat and the spacer plate insert useless thing. The 6 blade, any pump and no thermostat worked about the best for me but not as good as removing that baffle with any pump and a good 3 or 4 core which I ran that way for 25 years but with an alternator and seeing over 6000 RPM regularly and no bearing issues. I went to the aluminum radiator now because I got sick of having the old brass ones leak. Now I run an electric pump and should have a heating problem, maybe I do because I have seen 200 plus but has never boiled over. I also run a pusher fan. Has anyone heard of a Tbird owner without the spacer have a heating problem I haven't? If I was looking for the totally stock look I would make a modified spacer so the impeller didn't have a 1 inch gap behind it.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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DryLakesRacer, having been born in 1955, I don't know how good 50s gas was, but I had no complaints with 60s gas or pre-embargo 70s gas. Mobile and Gulf were my favorites.
I was a senior in high school in 1973. For a brief time, I owned a 1969 SS 396 scrubelle/w L78 (375 hp) engine and L88 427 cam. Talking about burning rubber, but I was spend $10 daily on gas. It doesn't sound like much, now, but it was too much money for a kid in high school. I sold it, bought a 1957 (2nd generation) scruby 3100 pickup/w 3-on-the-tree and 235 six, and a 1970 Kawasaki 500. At the time, the Kawasaki was about the fastest thing on wheels, didn't handle or stop well, and the 2-stroke triple averaged only 27 mpg. It required top-end rebuilt at 8,000 miles, but not much to a 2-stroke top end.
Thanks for the 7-blade fan tip. 6 are common, but I'll check out the 7. The original, chrome 3-spoke Tbird dress-up fan was replaced by a plastic/fiberglass fan by my dad. I would not use either but will keep the chrome fan in case I ever want to show/sell it. The 3-blade is in great shape, no rust/cracks, and reinforcement plates are available, but as I've said before, I don't prefer form over function, but it's nice when you can have both.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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I think only a judge/fanatic would care about the missing spacer, but I was concerned about stress on the pump bearing. It seems that for every Tbird that has over-heating issues, there is one that doesn't. I won't know if I licked the problem until I complete the restoration and put it back on the road.
Thanks
By the way, are there any water pumps I should avoid?
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By GREENBIRD56 - 4 Years Ago
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I for one, haven't seen any pointed remarks about a bad pump brand. They all seem to work if there is an effort made to allow them to flow plenty of coolant through the radiator at idle. I have seen some that didn't seem to have the factory number of internal impeller blades. There was a T-bird parts vendor that used to sell a kit to renew the pump shaft / bearing / seal - for people dead set on having the proper Ford numbers on the casting. I don't think I would try that myself.
I pulled up the Paragon data to have a look (engineers are like that) - and it looks like his porting arrangement gains a few GPM down at the desired low idle speed. Certainly worth working on if you have the front dress off the engine. I remember several years ago that Hoosier mentioned having to "massage" the front of a new block he prepped for the Hurricane race engine. There are apparently still more potential obstructions at the entry point from the front cover.
I'm glad someone has mentioned the air flow issue - using a smaller pulley and a fan with more blades is a worthwhile change. I put a fan clutch on mine - there is room on the bird (not the sedan). They lose about 10% speed from slippage - no total lock-up. To go on the Hayden clutch I fitted a cut down 7 blade aluminum fan from an old GTO. The air temp coming back from the radiator operates the viscous clutch so the system is pretty much automated. Fan turns slow (slips) at start-up, radiator heated air cranks it up - at speed the increased air flow cools it down and it slips until needed.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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I bought Chris Ames's water pump spacer, after talking to Ted Eaton and Gil Baumgartner (CTCI). However, I won't install it until my engine is rebuilt. Chris is a straight-up guy, who has invested considerable time, effort, and money on the spacer. The patent process took 5 1/2 years. He received confirmation of the issuance of the patent 15 minutes before the new year, and he received patent-of-the year award. He's very proud of the spacer for which he deserves recognition. He has received a few requests from non-Tbird owners, but he politely explained that the spacer is only used on Tbirds. His overheating problem cost him a newly rebuilt engine. If he hadn't come up with a solution, he was going to say goodbye to the car. "Necessity is the mother of invention." If you read this, Thank you, Chris.
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By 55 GLASS TOP - 4 Years Ago
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Bob Drake makes a nice pump ceramic seals ball and roller bearings reconfigured impeller for high flow a little high price but my car can sit in the drive was and idle for as long as I need without running hot. Good pump I have it on both my cars I have never overheated.
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By 55blacktie - 4 Years Ago
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I'll check it out. Thanks, Glass Top 55.
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