Ford vs. Lincoln YBlock History Questions?


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By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
I've been reading the Charles R. Morris book "Ford Y-Block a Performance History" and found the information about the Lincoln Y-Block interesting. I never saw one of these engines back in the day, probably because there weren't many Lincolns in my neighborhood.  I understand these engines were used in Turnpike Cruisers?   The port layout used in the Lincoln engines was similar to an FE.  My guess is Ford developed both engines separately and used knowledge gained from both when they made the FE?   I always thought the Y-Block was replaced because of limited displacement growth?  Why didn't they offer the Lincoln engine in all Fords?  Perhaps cost was an issue. Whatever the reason, the FE turned out well enough.
By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
I agree. I never made any sense to me that the port arrangement would be so different from the Lincoln to the Ford/Merc. I’m sure it had to do with $$$ to the corporation. The first major use of overhead valve V8’s were out in 49 when Ford made a minimal change to the Flathead that was to be only 3 years but ended up 4. FOMOCO had plenty of time to see the performance gains but chose a difference theory as I understand it.
I would have thought there would have been more “racers” working with those 317 up Lincolns but it was not the case. I realize Lincoln’s were not a high quantity engine but neither were Cadillac’s or Chrysler’s .
By paul2748 - 4 Years Ago
Is the Lincoln a lot heavier that the Ford - maybe that is why.
By 2721955meteor - 4 Years Ago
the early y blocks (lincoln) engines where a very durable engine ,hear in bc/canada they where used in trucks,aswel as many industrial power plants(fork lifts, lumber carriers as well skajet co built small yarders for logging mostly powered with the engine. these where different from the car version as had gear driven camshafts, and solid lifters,sodeum cooled exhaust valves.
there head design was better than ford mere ys,plus lifters where not mushroom. but they where much heavier. the truck version was called big job
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
In the fifties, Ford and Lincoln divisions must have had completely separate but similar engine programs?   The FE looks like a combination of both engines.  Then there's the MEL engine?   Not sure where that fit in.  430s were bad ass back in the day.  There was a 430 powered 57 Ford custom that used to run at our local circle track that did very well.  I don't think I ever saw a 430 in a drag car?
By Ted - 4 Years Ago
The intake port arrangements on the LYB engines are side by side or in pairs.  Likewise the center exhaust ports are together.  If the intake ports on the Ford Y are flipped 90° from being stacked to side by side, you have a similar port layout as the LYB engines.  Both the intake and exhaust port layouts of the LYB and Ford Y was adopted by GM for the SBC development.
 
The cylinder bore centers on the LYB engines are the same as the FE engines so that meant a minimum of machining changeover when machining the blocks.  Keep in mind that the LYB engines were still being offered in the truck lineup through the end of 1963 so both the LYB and FE engines were being machined simultaneously.  The M-E-L engines were a brand new engine layout when introduced as these blocks had an even wider bore center than the LYB/FE engines.  The M-E-L family of engines eventually morphed into the 385 series (429/460) which shared the same bore centers.
 
The Ford Y-Block has the same 4.380” bore centers as the later produced 289 SBF, 351C, and 351M/400M engines.  The Ford Y and the early 221/260 SBF engines were also being machined at the same time so any sharing of bore centers facilitates the machining process when changing over between the different families of engines.
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
Thanks Ted.  Very interesting information. 
By 2721955meteor - 4 Years Ago
the mel engines had comb chambers in the block, with flat cal heads,383 and 430 was same block,lik 348 chefs comb chamber in block(difecult to bore
By RB - 4 Years Ago
At about 2:45 into the video you will see a MEL win the US nationals.  Also some air time for Ted and myself

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/oddball-vintage-engines-engine-masters-2016/
By darrell - 4 Years Ago
the 383 and 430 in 58 to 60 mercs used an fe bellhousing.the lincoln 430 was different.its no wonder ford lost out to gm they couldnt make 2 things the same.
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
It seems to me like there must have been significant internal disagreements at the time.  I was always curious as to why Ford changed engines so often?   Perhaps it had something to do with the failure of the Edsel?    I have always been a Ford guy.  It hasn't been cheap or easy.  Both my father and grandfather owned them, My first car was a Ford.  I've driven and raced them all my life.  I have had a few Brand X cars.  They never gave me the same feeling. 
By darrell - 4 Years Ago
couldnt agree more.ive owned nothing but a v8 ford since 68.ive been into these things so long that its not so bad for me since i know what fits what but its no wonder others gave up.
By blocky - 4 Years Ago
hi all i also have a soft spot for the Y block.had them 40 years ago and the last 10 years i have come back .(still like a clevo too)i have 9 sitting on the shed floor just in case i get bored.
By DryLakesRacer - 4 Years Ago
blocky ... you sound like me with GMC 6’s
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
My first hot rod engine was a Y-Block. We would buy a whole 57 Ford motor for $50, hose it off and go street racing. I swapped so many old Fords from an automatic to a stick that I could do it in my sleep.   Back then, most of our engines were stock. I envied the guys with race cams because of the sound they made.  Swapping cams and lifters in a YBlock is challenging because of the mushroom lifters, so we would leave the old lifters with predictable results. By the time I had the money to do things right, the FE engine was the big dog.

I wish I had my current TBird back then.  My first decent job paid $80 a week with a wife and a child to support, so that was not going to happen. Since then, I've built every car I ever wanted to own.  Y-Blocks make me smile.  You still see one every now and then.   I hate it when someone swaps in a newer engine.  There's something about a 50s Ford with a 302 that just doesn't look right to me.
By Ted - 4 Years Ago
Here is the link to the 1959 U.S. Nationals showing Rod Singer / Karol Miller winning with a M-E-L powered ‘Blown A’ dragster in the Top Eliminator class.  Rod is driving while Karol is wrenching.  The dragster is shown racing in this video several times while the final time slot shows both Karol and Rod in the winners circle at the end of the race.  Here are the times to look for.
21:06
22:27
23:30
26:10
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2x9IsKy_M5w 
By darrell - 4 Years Ago
my last y block car was in 1970.was married in 71 and that was the end of old cars for me.all of the y block powered car were gone from here by that time due to rust and none were made after 58 anyway.didnt get another untill 2002.a 56 customline.a long wait.
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
Right after we married in 1965, I bought a 56 Ford Victoria off a car lot.  It had a 292 with a three speed on the floor.  It had a bad starter and I didn't have the money to fix it, so I always tried to park it on a hill.  Since there weren't many hills in Miami, I carried jumper cables in my trunk.  I got caught a few times jumping my car from other people's cars without permission.  Those were the days.....
By darrell - 4 Years Ago
the 430 series had the block cut at an angle as everyone knows.you couldnt use an old type b0ring bar like i have a van norman 777.i understand they had a plate that bolted to the block to level it.anyone ever see one.
By FORD DEARBORN - 4 Years Ago
Interesting discussion on some of the Ford V8's. I realize the LEM engine series isn't a Y-block but this interesting thread brought back some long ago memories of a 383 in good condition. I got my hands on this 383 from a wrecked 58 Mercury.  Once I learned an FE bell housing and flywheel would fit, it was off to the bone yard to pick parts. This was in the late 60s when I put this 383 in my old 62 Galaxy 4dr.  I thought I could play with valve timing by installing solid lifters and adjustable rockers from an FE. They fit, it worked. This thing developed crazy torque. I couldn't come out of the hole with out wiping out the 1st gear slider and cluster. Like, had to get up to about a 40mph roll and then the car would pull super strong. There was different technology used on this engine series like mentioned above.  The cylinder deck was machined at a 10* angle (I think), the heads were flat - no combustion chambers and the power steering pump was integral to the timing chain cover behind the damper pulley. For me, it was and still is very satisfying to sort out any Ford compatibility issues then building something that performs excellent and reliable. The tricks and resources are there, just have to dig for them and it's been worth it.
By PF Arcand - 4 Years Ago
Florida Phil;..re the 302 in a  50's Ford.. I agree with U, but it's even worse, when I see an SBC under the hood, I just walk away or I might get into a confrontation... 
By Florida_Phil - 4 Years Ago
PF Arcand (7/3/2020)
Florida Phil;..re the 302 in a  50's Ford.. I agree with U, but it's even worse, when I see an SBC under the hood, I just walk away or I might get into a confrontation... 
I agree.  I hate it when I see a nice old Ford with a SBC under the hood. I've had my share of GM engines both big and small.  Raced one for years.  They're the cheapest way to go fast.   They don't belong in Fords.
By Ted - 4 Years Ago
darrell (7/2/2020)
The 430 series had the block cut at an angle. As everyone knows,.you couldn't use an old type b0ring bar like I have, a Van Norman 777. I understand they had a plate that bolted to the block to level it. Anyone ever see one?

While the GM ‘W’ series engines (348/409) were machined with 14° decks, the M-E-L engines (383/410/430/462) have decks machined on a 10° angle.  Both these engine families require specific plates bolted to the decks that will permit a deck mounted boring bar to be used.  Here is what that plate looks like for the M-E-L engines.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/86226404-32e8-4250-b1fa-beda.jpg 

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/8ef301e7-4ed5-4974-bce2-46cc.jpg 

By kevink1955 - 4 Years Ago
Never knew that, leave it to Ted to have the block plate.  What do the pistons look like, do they have a similar slant on top??

Looks like ti has the "Steam holes" drilled Lol
By darrell - 4 Years Ago
these look hardly ever used.did you come across them at a swap meet or something or did you always have them.i wonder what they cost back in the day.
By Ted - 4 Years Ago
darrell (7/3/2020)
these look hardly ever used.did you come across them at a swap meet or something or did you always have them.i wonder what they cost back in the day.

I’ve had those MEL block boring plates for a good number of years now.  They have been used several times but are cleaned after each use and put in their wooden cases which helps to explain why they still look good.  These originally came from a machine shop that was shutting down.  Hard to say what they cost new back then but would definitely be pricey today based on what torque plates now cost.

kevink1955 (7/3/2020)
Never knew that, leave it to Ted to have the block plate.  What do the pistons look like, do they have a similar slant on top??
Looks like ti has the "Steam holes" drilled Lol

While the aftermarket MEL pistons maintain a zero deck at the upper portion of the piston, the spark plug side of the piston is where the compression ratio can be tailored specifically to the application.  The valve pockets do limit what can be done with the compression ratio if running high lift cams.  Here are some pictures.
 
410 M-E-L – Edsel street engine for pump gasoline
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/142f5623-4a26-47c1-8939-bb73.jpg 

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/d346dbc6-8fe4-4bcf-9bb7-9944.jpg

 
371 CID M-E-L for Bonneville C/AIR class using racing fuel
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/9ba7e567-67ec-412b-b069-8a2d.jpg 

 
550 CID M-E-L using racing fuel
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/47ce24bb-c9f4-4ad5-a3c0-a47d.jpg