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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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I am re-connecting the Heater Controls using a new Vacuum controlled Valve on the Manifold and new Vacuum Lines.There's lots of Vacuum going into the Temperature Control Valve (Cricket Valve) in the Heater Box but very little coming out to go to the Valve on the Manifold. Blowing compressed Air in both Directions does not go through the Valve even in high Heat Position which should allow Air through. Whats inside the Cricket Valve that would cause little Vacuum out? Is it not just a Mechanical Valve or is there more to it?
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By bergmanj - 5 Years Ago
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One thing might be a leaky diaphragm rubber in the valve - these are OLD, and much of those diaphragms have rotted-out or gotten brittle & cracked.
Regards, JLB
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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Are You referring to the "Cricket Valve" in the Heater Box or the One in the Manifold? The One in the Manifold is new. I haven't installed it yet. I wanted to make sure the Valve on the Heater was going to allow Vacuum through it before I took out the Manual Control Valve I have in the Manifold now. Should that "Cricket Valve" allow Air through when I test it using Compressed Air? Right now nothing goes through in any Position on the Dash Temperature Lever.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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Casco sells a kit to change the vacuum heater control valve to manual. It's made for a 55-57 TBird, but may fit other cars.
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By bergmanj - 5 Years Ago
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There's a diaphragm in the "cricket valve" ; and, one in the manifold valve. Another possibility: Sometimes the valve "shaft" gets corroded "in-place" and, simply, will not move. I've had this happen in other similar applications. Carefully work it loose, a bit at a time [if you can], with a small amount of silicone grease [the clear "stuff" used for electrical connectors, spark plug wires, etc.] into the shaft/seal area until it works smoothly.
Hope this is helpful, JLB
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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bergmanj (5/18/2019)
There's a diaphragm in the "cricket valve" ; and, one in the manifold valve. Another possibility: Sometimes the valve "shaft" gets corroded "in-place" and, simply, will not move. I've had this happen in other similar applications. Carefully work it loose, a bit at a time [if you can], with a small amount of silicone grease [the clear "stuff" used for electrical connectors, spark plug wires, etc.] into the shaft/seal area until it works smoothly. Hope this is helpful, JLB
Very helpful. The Cricket Valve moves up and down freely. It was hooked up when I bought the Car but I don't know if the Heater Control was actually working. Rubber Lines to the Windshield Wiper Motor were falling apart which is T'd into the Heater Control Line. I guess the Diaphragm is gone in it. Lots of Vacuum in but very little out even in the full open Position. They seem to sell a lot on Ebay and they are also available as "exchange" rebuilt from a couple of Parts Sellers. In the full open Position I assume Vacuum should pass through equal to whats going in to open the Valve on the Intake Manifold?
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By bergmanj - 5 Years Ago
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Yeah, diaphragm is most probably cracked/broken. You wouldn't know for sure unless you take it apart. I've carefully pried the seals on those types of manufacturing & sometimes you can put them back together by re-crimping after "fixing" [when possible]; which is probably what the "exchange" people do [by putting-in a new diaphragm of modern materials].
Good luck, JLB
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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bergmanj (5/18/2019)
Yeah, diaphragm is most probably cracked/broken. You wouldn't know for sure unless you take it apart. I've carefully pried the seals on those types of manufacturing & sometimes you can put them back together by re-crimping after "fixing" [when possible]; which is probably what the "exchange" people do [by putting-in a new diaphragm of modern materials]. Good luck, JLB
Thanks for the Info. There are several NOS original Ford Valves for sale on Ebay. Whats your Opinion re buy NOS or Buy an Exchange Unit?
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By ian57tbird - 5 Years Ago
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I freed mine up about 8 years ago. The memory is a bit fuzzy on it.
I carefully opened it up and the pin had seized.
The diaphragm was good so I cleaned up the pin and used rubber grease as it controls the amount of vacuum going to the diaphragm by pulling the pin out of rubber with a hole through it. The pin is moved by a bimetal strip to regulate vacuum.
It was fiddly but if you have the patience it can be done.
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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ian57tbird (5/19/2019)
I freed mine up about 8 years ago. The memory is a bit fuzzy on it. I carefully opened it up and the pin had seized. The diaphragm was good so I cleaned up the pin and used rubber grease as it controls the amount of vacuum going to the diaphragm by pulling the pin out of rubber with a hole through it. The pin is moved by a bimetal strip to regulate vacuum. It was fiddly but if you have the patience it can be done.
There's more to this little valve than it first appears. I assumed it was simply a Mechanical only Valve to Control Coolant Flow to the Heater. The Lever moves fine but as U indicate there could still be seized or damaged Diaphragm inside. Thanks for theInfo.
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By bergmanj - 5 Years Ago
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I'd be more tempted to buy a rebuilt unit simply because of them using more modern diaphragm material versus 50+ year old "original" material that could be rotten or brittle by now.
Regards, JLB
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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bergmanj (5/19/2019)
I'd be more tempted to buy a rebuilt unit simply because of them using more modern diaphragm material versus 50+ year old "original" material that could be rotten or brittle by now. Regards, JLB
Tee-Bird Products is the only One who listed an Exchange Valve. I just heard back from them. The Man who was reconditioning them has been unable to get correct Diaphragms recently so no Valves are available. I guess I have to go with NOS and take a Chance. .
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By bergmanj - 5 Years Ago
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If you (or anyone else here) can find another to experiment with, take it apart & replace with "raw" diaphragm material that you'd custom-cut for the application - that "stuff" has to be "out there", and available as raw material.
Otherwise, I'd be willing to "take a crack at it" if someone can provide an old one on which to experiment. The only one I have presently is a "spare" good one; on which I am not willing to work.
Contact me through PM if you have one to send for experimentation (even one from which the temp. sense coil is broken-off; just need the basic valve to see how it comes apart and is built inside).
Thanks, JLB
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By ian57tbird - 5 Years Ago
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It becomes obvious when you open it up. It has been a while but from what I remember real the only fiddly bit was crimping it back together. I think one of the tabs broke off and I had to solder it back on.
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By MoonShadow - 5 Years Ago
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Those darn little tabs rarely all go back. Just a odd question but have you got the dash level hooked to it? Ask me at Edgewater and I'll tell you about my experience with these little valves. You said that the vacuum is leaking through so I expect it is the diaphragm just wanted to throw in my 2 bits.
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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MoonShadow (5/22/2019)
Those darn little tabs rarely all go back. Just a odd question but have you got the dash level hooked to it? Ask me at Edgewater and I'll tell you about my experience with these little valves. You said that the vacuum is leaking through so I expect it is the diaphragm just wanted to throw in my 2 bits.
Are You referring to my original Question or? Not sure what You mean about "Dash Level hooked to it"? Vacuum Line from Manifold to the Valve and line out to Valve on Intake Manifold. The Heat Control on high which opens the Valve on Heater. There is nothing coming through the Valve to the Valve on Intake Manifold. I assume there should be vacuum coming through?
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By kevink1955 - 5 Years Ago
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I think some of the confusion comes from the 56 cars having 2 entirely different heater control systems, Mine has a firewall mount valve in series with the heater hoses, the back side of the valve is under the dash and has a cable controlled bu the hot-cold lever on the control panel, I think it also has a capillary temp sensor in the heater box to automatically regulate temperature.
The other type has a vacuum controlled valve on the intake manifold that connects to the heater hose supplying the heater core, the vacuum source is a valve (I am assuming temperature sensitive) in the heater box to control how much vacuum is supplied to the manifold valve thereby controlling the air temperature.
I have no idea what system the Birds or 55 cars used.
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By MoonShadow - 5 Years Ago
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That was a spell check error I typed lever. Referring to the temp control slider that attaches to the valve.
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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kevink1955 (5/22/2019)
I think some of the confusion comes from the 56 cars having 2 entirely different heater control systems, Mine has a firewall mount valve in series with the heater hoses, the back side of the valve is under the dash and has a cable controlled bu the hot-cold lever on the control panel, I think it also has a capillary temp sensor in the heater box to automatically regulate temperature. The other type has a vacuum controlled valve on the intake manifold that connects to the heater hose supplying the heater core, the vacuum source is a valve (I am assuming temperature sensitive) in the heater box to control how much vacuum is supplied to the manifold valve thereby controlling the air temperature. I have no idea what system the Birds or 55 cars used.
I had that System on the 56 I had for Years. I believe there actually 3 Hoses that go into the Firewall Hookups. This System on mine now has the Vacuum Control Valve on the Intake and the Temperature is controlled by this Cricket Valve I am trying to get working. I don't think the System You have is even covered in the Shop Manual. I believe its referred to as the "recirculating"Heater. No Rhyme or reason why they were installed in some Cars and not Others. No Mention that it was offered in the Brochure or the Accessories Manual.
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By MoonShadow - 5 Years Ago
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I did not know about the two types of heater systems. I just work on the one I have. I did add a vacuum control valve on the engine though. Had a problem in a cold winter with my 57. Did an engine change outside in December in Missouri. COLD and after my heater didn't work. I spent the whole winter freezing. I checked the temp control cable at the heater and everything appeared to work correctly. In the early spring I was working under the hood and heard a hissing sound. Found a vacuum hose off the back of the intake not connected so I plugged it in. When i got back in the car to move it it was HOT inside. Didn't relize that the cable didn't actually open the valve it just allowed the vacuum to open it. I always had to learn the hard way. Still do I think.
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By paul2748 - 5 Years Ago
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My 54 has the heater type that has three hoses as mentioned above. The 56 Bird has the two hose system, valve on intake and the valve (cricket) in the heater box. The bird system gave me problems, so I went with the CASCO kit which has a manual control using the stock dash controls. This kit works pretty good - but the temp is harder to control in my opinion.
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By ian57tbird - 5 Years Ago
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From what I recall the control on the dash varies the bimetal strip that then changes the vacuum flow. When hot air passes over the bimetal strip it moves the pin to close the small orifice which reduces the vacuum flow. That is how it regulates the vacuum and how much the vacuum controlled intake manifold valve is open.
If you can't get any movement of air through it when sucking on the line then I would suspect the pin is seized shut like mine was, and the rubber diaphragm is probably good. If the diaphragm was faulty then air would leak when blocking the other vacuum outlet.
As mentioned it has been a long time and I'm doing this from sometimes faulty memory.
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