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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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My 1959 Edsel seems to be running a bit cold (all the time)
I have a Champion 3 row in it, a 7lb cap, 50/50 and a 195 thermostat.
Even the stock gauge never went much up to the middle and the S/W shows it average under 200. I have milky condensation on the insides of the valve covers (which are aluminum) the oil out of the pan is normal though.
Any thoughts?
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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The temp sounds fine to me. Do you have a lot of humidity where you live? I think you need to drive your car more.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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Use an infrared or laser thermometer on the thermostat area of the intake to see the temperature.
The gauge is going to be inaccurate, possibly not only due to the quality of the gauge but also because of the location of the sender in the head. The coolant currently at the sender still has to absorb heat from 3 more combustion chambers. This can result in quite a difference in the reading indicated by the gauge and the actual temperature of the engine.
Once you know the temperature the engine actually operates at, and the temperature indicated by the gauge at that actual temperature, the gauge accuracy isn't really important. What is important is that you learn what is a normal indication on the gauge so that you can recognize when there may be a problem.
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By miker - 5 Years Ago
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Still running the road draft tube? That system requires some speed, typically over 25mph, to work. The condensation you describe is typical of what I’ve seen in cool weather and trips under 10 miles or so. Or even pretty warm weather if there’s no highway driving. If that fits your driving pattern, maybe think about a PVC system. Plenty of info on that here in the search function.
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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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Will check with digital.
No road draft. Switched to PCV.
It runs cooler on the highway.
Just thought that new radiator being some much bigger than the old stock one that maybe that's an issue.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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My 1955 TBird has a 3 row Champion aluminum radiator and an electric fan that runs all the time. My car also has a 170 degree wide gap thermostat. It gets hot here in Florida. My car shows about 170 degrees on my SW gauge. In traffic, it will climb to 180 degrees. I am running a stock road draft tube with no PVC. My car is garaged and drives at least 5-10 miles a week. I have no condensation in my valve covers.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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The fact of the matter is, if the thermostat is working correctly, then your operating temperature is near or over 195 degrees. The radiator being larger doesn't affect that since the thermostat must be open for coolant to pass through the radiator to be cooled. The engine simply will not stay cool if that is not happening.
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By darrell - 5 Years Ago
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a lot of miles on your engine
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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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So with a digital it's 168 average at the sensor. The goose neck is 130. water pump is 140. Radiator is 119.
That is after driving for a long time. So the gauge showing 170 is pretty accurate.
The engine is a rebuild with a few grand miles on it. But the engine I just took out had the same thing.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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Is the goose neck the thermostat housing?
If it won't get over 170, then the thermostat is defective or it's not 195.
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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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Yes it is. It's the second 195 I put in it. But if the engine does not get to 170 will the 195 not open?
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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The thermostat housing should be hotter than the sensor, not cooler.
The thermostat is opening. The engine simply will not stay cool if it does not. That's why it must be defective or not 195.
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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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So I should get a new OEM 180 or should I get a 195?
Which brand is best? Stant, Murray, Motorad?
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By RB - 5 Years Ago
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Sounds like flow is somehow by-passing the thermostat.. MELs used a couple different dia of thermostat.. Does yours fit snug in the water neck? Are you getting flow through your heater core?
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By miker - 5 Years Ago
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I’m inclined to agree with Charles and RB. Somehow, water is circulating thru the radiator when it shouldn’t. Most of the temperature post are overheating. Since you’ve got an infrared thermometer, have you tried checking the usual places from cold as the engine warms up? You should see a spike in the temp at the upper radiator hose when the stat opens. At your temperatures, you should be able to do it with your hand. The engine temp, bypass hose temp, water pump temp, should all come up before the upper radiator hose. If it doesn’t, it’s bypassing somehow. When you turn the heater on (water control, not fan) you should see that too.
55 years ago my Dad taught me to never put a thermostat in the car, new or used, without putting it in a pot of water on the stove. Suspended on a wire in the water, not touching the pot. (I got in a lot more trouble than he did for using Mom’s candy thermometer).
You can see the stat open, shut off the heat and watch it close. Pretty good proof.
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By ian57tbird - 5 Years Ago
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I've had this issue of not getting to running temp, especially in colder weather. The first car I sold before ever working out what the issue was.
My Landcruiser was doing the same thing, running cold in the cold weather. There is a rubber seal on the thermostat that seals it to the housing. With out being obvious the seal had compressed a little and water was getting past before the thermostat was opening.
If you have tested your thermostat to see that it is opening and closing properly,(I do that even with new ones as I have heard of them being faulty from new) then I would suggest putting some compatible sealer on the outer edge of the thermostat to make sure no water is getting past it.
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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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This is in the heat of summer.
I know not all thermostats are created alike. For instance. My 68 DeVille had many different brands listed, however ONLY the one with a brass foot that reached down into the by-pass was the correct one.
I will try the hot water test. However I've had 3 now. The odds all are bad???
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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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All the brands I have tried so far wiggle side to side while sitting in the seat.
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By Lord Gaga - 5 Years Ago
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skyhunter (6/19/2019)
All the brands I have tried so far wiggle side to side while sitting in the seat.
Your water might have too much lead in it.
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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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It's distilled water
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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skyhunter (4/26/2019)
My 1959 Edsel seems to be running a bit cold (all the time)
I have a Champion 3 row in it, a 7lb cap, 50/50 and a 195 thermostat.
Even the stock gauge never went much up to the middle and the S/W shows it average under 200. I have milky condensation on the insides of the valve covers (which are aluminum) the oil out of the pan is normal though.
Any thoughts?
Where is the coolant temperature sensor located? The original sensor location at the rear of the engine is biased towards reading a lower than actual temperature. The ideal location is at the front of the engine just behind the thermostat. Avoid using the outlet holes in the water pump for temperature sensor locations.
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By skyhunter - 5 Years Ago
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Hi Ted,
It's up in the back top of the head.
The oil on the underside of the valve covers and up at the top inside the filler neck shows condensation.
Even running long trips it does not seem to get very hot.
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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skyhunter (6/20/2019)
Hi Ted,
It's up in the back top of the head.
The oil on the underside of the valve covers and up at the top inside the filler neck shows condensation.
Even running long trips it does not seem to get very hot.
It’s normal for the coolant temperature when taken at the back of the engine to be 10°-15°F lower than what is happening at the thermostat. That’s simply due to temperature at the back of the head not yet taking into account the rise in temperature that will occur as the coolant flows back to the front of the engine towards the thermostat.
It takes trips of at least fifteen miles to keep condensation formation minimal and that’s with a properly designed PCV valve system in place. A good PCV valve system does help to alleviate some of that condensation build up much quicker than the original road draft tube system. Running a engine oil with too heavy a viscosity will also promote condensation buildup.
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